Dawlish Discussion

On another thread there is mention of our undemocratic election system and how it can create a need for tactical voting.

A case in point is this.

Here is the slightly abridged version of the text of the Lib Dem 'day before poll' election leaflet that I have had sight of.

“I was a Labour councillor for many years and I’ve experienced Tory cuts at the coal face – quite literally – I used to be a miner!

Now I firmly believe that we’re at risk of another five years of Tory misrule here in Teignbridge unless we work together to stop it.

That’s why I’ll be using my vote on June 8th to support the Lib Dem candidate Marie Chadwick. It’s the only smart choice to say no more of the same Tory cuts here.

A vote for Labour of the Green Party in this constituency will only split the opposition and help the Conservatives win. Our unfair voting system means that only Marie can beat the Tory candidate.

I’m putting my trust in Marie on June 8th and so should you.”

did you make this up @Lynne? where's the quote from?

lib dem candidate unimpressive at Dawlish hustings wouldn't waste a vote on the party that says one thing and does another..........

@Lynne okay it's from a lib dem leaflet. it's hardly objective is it? any party can find someone who used to be a member or councillor of another party and who changed their minds and joined them.

For all we know this could be fabricated.

And tactical voting is applicable to around 48 seats where the combined opposition votes can topple the Tories. Newton Abbot isn't among the 48+/-.

@Andrew - the quote is from a 'day before poll' lib dem election leaflet (as i pointed out in my original posting).

The person is not fabricated.

He exists.

And whilst I do not know him I do know of him.  

@Lynne, yes i know, i re-read it and posted above.

@Lynne do you work in the lib dem campaign office?

He exists - what as an actor?

The quote given is just another example of the Lib Dems belittling other parties and arrogantly telling the voter what the 'smart choice is or who we 'should' vote for, but without offering any substance as to what makes the Lib Dems different. I find the quote and the Lib Dem approach in general very condescending.

Tactical voting would imply that some Lib Dem voters elsewhere in the country should vote Green or Labour to defeat the Tories. The Lib Dem leadership does not support tactical voting, but the Lib Dems   manipulate tactical voting to mean 'vote for us'. They're that desparate to reclaim some power.

@Andrew - i do not work in any campaign office.

The other thread that, i believe, Lynne is reffering to is below;-

https://dawlish.com/thread/details/45589

@Andrew - the person i refer to is not an actor. he is retired. he lives in this constituency. there is a picture of him on the leaflet which also gives his name and contact details.

I wonder what the Green Party leaflets in Brighton Pavilion and Bristol West are urging Lib Dem and Labour voters to do. Vote Green perhaps?

I'd expect Green party leaflets to advocate voting Green.

So no surprise then that a Lib Dem leaflet advocates voting ..............Lib Dem! 

No surprise at all, what's your point?

@Lynne

Labour weren't happy with that leaflet.  I received this sponsored post in my newsfeed.

WARNING. Many of our voters received an e-mail this morning from a man presenting himself as a Labour supporter. He is not (the small print at the bottom of page one of the letter reveals it is promoted on behalf of Marie Chadwick and the Liberal Democrats). It is in fact from the Liberal Democrats, targeted at our Labour voters. We have made a conscious choice to run a positive campaign and don't want to get invovled in attacking other parties but we feel strongly we need to defend and protect our voters from this particularly as the letter is written in such a way as to suggest it comes from a Labour Supporter.

@flo, well i don't suppose labour would be happy with the leaflet! 

A Labour supporter telling other labour supporters to vote Lib Dem in this constituency in this election. 

A bit like the old (pre, and up to, 2010) days then?  

@Andrew - there is no lib dem candidate in brighton pavilion constituency because the lib dems there decided not to put up a candidate in order to help the green party candidate - caroline lucas.  

I fully suppprt anything that will rid us of this vile Tory government. Please vot LibDem in our constituency to help make this country for the many not the few. ✅

The "progressive alliance" does have a bit of a murky history (allegedly).

The Green Party was offered a £250,000 inducement not to stand a candidate against the LibDems in Richmond, according to the chairman of the local Greens. Ryan Coley, 

the Kingston Green Party chair, claims his members were pressured by party officials not to run a candidate because the party had been offered £250,000 conditional 

on standing aside for the LibDems. Guido has obtained an internal report written by the local chairman and members Clare Keogh and Kieron Merrett. 

They complain “party staff added pressure” on them, “telling us that there was an offer of a large donation to the party which was conditional on the party demonstrating 

its desire for a progressive alliance”. They allege the offer amounted to £250,000 and the order to stand aside came “on the instruction of the Chief Executive“.

https://order-order.com/2016/12/06/green-party-offered-250000-not-stand-richmond/

Hope all voters understand the consequences of voting for the Libtards, Labour, SNP, Greens amonst others. You will opening the doors to the islamification of the country due to their open door policies. The security of the UK will be placed in the hands of Brussels bureaucrates resulting in unreverseable reductions to our armed forces, MI5/6, Border Control, and police. Crime rates will rocket icluding child rape, FGM, drug abuse, assaults and murders, their will also be civil war and no-go areas in our major cities. The promised increases in public services, education, elderly care and most importantly the NHS will be financed in two ways - huge borrowing crippling our finacial institutions, and massive tax and NI rises, including rates, VAT etc. No less controversial would be the risk of our alliance with the USA, Japan and China and a total break up of the commonwealth resulting in the loss of places like the Falklands and Gibraltar, and the distrust of Austrailia, New Zealand and others. Please for the sake of our children and grandchildren vote sensibily and help rid our country of the traitors, hate preachers, criminals and eurocrats that support these parties, and remember what our parents, grandparents and our allies fought two world wars for, most of all our freedom and democracy. Thank you. 

well said Fred i was at the Manor at 0700 this morning and my vote cast in favour of the Tories lets hope they are returned to power with a good majority.

And Fred is a reason why I would never vote Tory, UKIP or BNP.  Nasty people who have nasty policies. 

@From The Grave

Hope you got your Teddy ready to hug tommorrow or maybe you prefere lighting candles and defending the terrorists who are intent on slaughtering our children and destroying our democratic way of life. If you Lab/Libtards get wiped out in this election perhaps you should consider finding somewhere else to live, as the nasty people from the nasty party with a mandate to make this country great again, will in future just ignore insane and insignificant people like you and your traitorouse party leaders.

I don't defend terrorists. What IS indefensible though is Mayhem cutting the police services, the armed forces, the security services and the border services. 

Your BNP has been wiped out, so you switched to UKIP. 

Your UKIP has been wiped out, so now you've switched to Conservatives. 

That says it all. The nasty party with nasty policies that are really killing British people every day. 

You really are a pathetic little englander FredBassett. A little bigot who's scared of his own shadow, I almost feel sorry for you.... almost

eta... with regard to the "Islamification" of the UK, Fred. just a couple of questions....

1) What would you say is the percentage of the uk you would need to overide our judicial system and Islamify the UK?

2) What do you think (no googling :) ) is the percentage of UK residents that are followers of Islam?

Come on people are your memories that short the bankers have caused all these cuts why because of the billions borrowed to bail them out that has to be paid back so services suffer and the cuts will continue untill that loan is paid off.   As a nation we are heavily in debt the average household owes £12,000 excluding mortgages and we seem to have an acceptance that this is ok when it's obviously not, what happened to save for what you want.  I owe not one penny have never had a loan or credit card my credit rating is as low as it can be and i am proud of it, my point i live within my means and the country has to do the same. 

I'm sorry but unless you were born with a silver spoon or your mouth or are very well off, I simply cannot understand how you would side with such a nasty party. They are led by a truly aweful and weak leader, it's a joke. Unfortunately it's is a very bad joke that will cost most of us dear :(

Ah, unless of course you believe the crap spouted by the mass media who are owned by 5 tax avoiding multi-billionaires whom would dearly love to keep the status quo.

We do have this nonsense in this country whereby the broadcasting media cannot utter a word about the General Election (except  to keep reminding us that it is happening) until after the polls close at 10.00pm.

The press however, have no such constraints. Why is that? 

Every election,  and without fail, highly polemic newspaper editions appear on polling day. 

Mind you, I do wonder what with the advent and proliferation of the internet just for how much longer those unelected press barons will keep such power.  

@From The Grave - ukip has not been wiped out, but since brexit is in the bag i suspect many of its supporters will now vote tory to ensure the lab/libtards cannot try to reverse the decision.

@Scapegoat - we already have sharia courts in this country, are you completely ignorant?  halal meat is sold by the large supermarkets and caterers without being labelled as such, so consumers do not have a choice.  the following article is from 2014, and three years later we are all still being kept in the dark.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2622830/Millions-eating-halal-food-without-knowing-How-big-brand-shops-restaurants-sell-ritually-slaughtered-meat-dont-label-it.html

Islamification is well under way.

Typical name calling from the Lab/Libtards really thats all they are fit for yellow bellied, run away and hide, part time protestors who believe holding candle lit vigils will save them from organized and well financed terrorism. They live a deluded life by failing to accept reality and hiding from the truth. Strange thing is they think the people facing real life are scared and effected by their name calling, be it bigot or racist which seem to be the favorites amonst their limited vocabulary. They openly question people who who can see whats happening and voice legitimate concern, whillst avoiding asking those causing such concerns what their agenda actually is. Anyone who can remember what life was like in Libya, Egypt, Syria and other similar places during the 70s early 80s compared with whats left today will know what these concerns are based on. To ask a question in return why do you think the UK is immune from ending up like Syria and if your parties ever gain power again how can you guarantee that it wont.

"Typical name-calling"

"Lab/Libtards"

"yellow-bellied"

"deluded"

BNP/UKIP/Conservative. The nasty party with nasty policies, being lapped up by some nasty people. 

Burnside - Sharia courts do not and will never overule uk courts, grow up and stop spouting scaremongering bullshit. Either be man or woman enough to own up that you are small minded bigots or stop with these pathetic attacks on a religion you know nothing about. Here's my advice, visit a Mosque and talk to these people, you never know, you may learn something :)

Their supporters might rancle at the description 'nasty party'.  They'd have a job though to deny that it is the 'selfish party' - that is surely its pupose  .  Now which party might I be refering to?

For clarity, conserve means KEEP.  And sod those in need....

Why side with the tories well first i have worked every day of my life spending most of my working life in the Army so i certainly haven't got a silver spoon in my mouth, my father worked down the pits untill Maggi closed them all and i have been a card holding member of the Labour Party for as long as i can remember.  So why change? Two reasons, one Corbyn and two brexit. First i want rid of Corbyn and if he doesnt win he should go and two i voted leave and believe the Tories will deliver the brexit that the British electorate voted for.  So folks thats my lot i am leaving for places afar with great scenery and the best fishing in the UK back in 10 days and just to finish it may be that by the time i return you may have a Labour, SNP coalition and that wont suit everybody but hey thats democracy.

When you realise that you've been hoodwinked by the masss media and Tory buffoons, I just want you to know Leatash, I won't judge you.

That is because I have nothing to do with the feckyouIwilldoasIwanttoConservative not-Party and I care about all people, even those I do not understand

The 'nasty party' was/is the way lots of people regard the Conservative Party.

Who said so? One Theresa May!  

"The term Nasty Party is a term used to refer to the Conservative Party of the United Kingdom. It was popularised in October 2002 by Theresa May, the then Chairman of the Conservative Party and future Prime Minister, when she said in a conference speech that: "There's a lot we need to do in this party of ours. Our base is too narrow and so, occasionally, are our sympathies. You know what some people call us – the Nasty Party."[1]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nasty_Party

@Scapegoat - as it happens i abhor all religion.  if the consequences were not so serious it would be laughable that in the 21st century some people still believe in an imaginary wizard in the sky.  having said that, when was the last time you saw christians mow people down in the street, and then get out of the vehicle to stab them to death?

As a lifelong socialist (with a small s) I am horrified that Corbyn was imposed upon us.  A pacifist is an idealist, not a strong leader or prime-ministerial candidate , although maybe(?) an honorable person.  My vote has already been cast by post into the Wigan area, where Labour's votes are traditionally plentiful anyway.  If Labour were to rise back as a viable opposition, then we could hope that Corbyn might follow Abbott's example and suffer 'ill health' - surely the (currently mute) moderate MPs will rise against him?

 After suffering redundancy from a good job aged 49, I found it extremely hard to find decent employment in Maggy's wastelands.  I did unfortunately take a job working behind the counter in a Jobcentre!!  (Hard to believe, but the pay-rate was only marginally above the prevailing national minimum - as a civil servant!)  That was in a nearby town that had been a proud centre of coal mining and cotton manufacture.  After a few miserable years there I resigned in despair.  After another eight years working for private enterprise, I am now enjoying a comfortable retirement both down here and in the Northwest.  I am ready to pay my fair whack in taxes, but loath the example set by the Tory-voting super-rich who can and do exploit the loopholes in our tax regime.  Vote them out by whatever means available, tactically if that will work.

Democracy is the recurrent suspicion that more than half the people are right more than half of the time.  Now i am gone have a long drive 820 miles with a stop at Tebay for a few hours kip good luck people and may the party of your choice win.

Anne Marie Morris re-elected with an even bigger majority than 2015 common sense prevails in our area at least

And elsewhere in the country?

@From The Grave - labour still lost the election in the rest of the country.

The losers were the nasty UKIP (wiped out) and the nasty Conservatives. 

The winners were clearly Labour and the DUP.  And democracy. 

I don't think you understand how this voting thing works.

I understand that positive political campaigning resulted in a 40% share of the vote, despite the lies, slurs and nastiness of the mainstream media and their lapdogs. To do so, against all the odds, is a win. 

Well done all. Except for a couple nasty red blemishes on the map the south west is again True Blue Tory.

Lovely Jubbly!

Take a look at the areas with the red dots on the UK map. Great following the Labour party has - sponging students, drug dealing benifit blaggers and muslim communities whoes women are also on benifits because they arent allowed to work. Not forgetting the 51% of Welsh voters who either forgot what day it was or just couldnt be bothered to go to the poll because the mines are shut 

Wonder whoes going to end up paying for the traitors promisies, like we dont know.

Only English white pensioners should be allowed to vote.  FACT!

I wonder if Jeremy now regrets only talking to Republican terrorists on his 'Peace Campaign' in N.Ireland.

Karma's a bitch isn't it JC.