General Discussion
Police community Support Officers
For those who do not read the local paper's Western Morning News.
11:00 - 31 January 2008
Two police community support officers yesterday locked themselves in a room to avoid a confrontation with a 13-year-old schoolboy, raising serious questions about the suitability of such officers in a policing role.
Devon and Cornwall Police said the support officers had been called to a referral centre in Ham Drive, Plymouth, at 2pm.
When they arrived, a youngster became threatening and abusive.
As he became more aggressive, they called for back-up and hid themselves in a locked room.
The force confirmed that four uniformed officers were then dispatched to the centre to deal with the incident. The youth was arrested and taken into custody.
A spokesman for the police said the 13-year-old was freed after 45 minutes into the care of one of his parents. No further action will be taken.
The incident raised yet more concerns over the role of PCSOs, which were introduced by the Government in 2002.
Torridge and West Devon MP Geoffrey Cox said the Government expected too much of PCSOs who could not "fill the shoes of a policeman".
"A police officer has the training, the powers and the confidence to deal with these types of incidents," the Conservative MP said.
"What is wrong is that the Government expects PCSOs to act like police officers but they always will be of extremely limited value in dealing with serious incidents, and even run-of-the- mill incidents like this. This illustrates their limited value."
Mr Cox said he was not criticising individuals but stressed that the role of community support officers should not be confused, either by Ministers, police forces or the public.
"They are there for high-visibility public reassurance. We cannot expect them to act like policemen when they are not," he said.
"What we need are more policemen on the beat."
The PCSO role was first created by former Home Secretary David Blunkett.
They were quickly dubbed "plastic policemen" while critics said it was simply "policing on the cheap".
The Police Federation, which represents rank-and-file officers, is not convinced of the need for PCSOs. There are also concerns that their powers will slowly be increased, further blurring the boundaries between them and sworn officers.
Support officers are only currently able to detain a person for up to 30 minutes to establish their identity.
They can also issue on-the-spot fines for some traffic offences, littering, cycling on footpaths, public order, criminal damage and theft.
Controversy erupted in September last year when it emerged that two Greater Manchester Police community support officers did not jump into a pond where a ten-year-old boy drowned.
They instead called for further assistance from uniformed officers rather than diving into the water themselves.
Last summer it was also revealed that Thames Valley Police had employed two 16-year-olds as police community support officers. The Home Office later ruled that all PCSOs had to be 18 in line with police recruits.
Devon and Cornwall Police currently have 368 PCSOs employed across the two counties.
Referring to the Ham Drive incident, Assistant Chief Constable Sharon Taylor said: "My understanding is that they were called there for a completely unrelated matter but when they arrived this juvenile became aggressive towards them.
"Obviously as a result of the violence displayed towards them they called back-up from police officers and in the interests of their personal safety, did the right thing and waited for the arrival of those officers who arrested the offender.
"Personal safety was their primary concern and they did the right thing.
"We don't intentionally put them into situations to deal with violent confrontation issues because they are not trained to deal with them."
Mrs Taylor, whose portfolio includes "citizen focus", said that PCSOs had a "positive presence" in local communities and helped to increase public confidence.
How much do the PCSO's get paid?? If it's half the wages of a police officer then I'd rather have one police officer to replace 2 PCSO's. If the PCSO's can't deal with a problem and then have to call on the help of a trained police officer, surely that's costing more!
PCSO's pay scales - http://national-pcsos.co.uk/id9.html
they seem to average around £17k.
Police pay scales - http://www.cheshire.police.uk/showcontent.php?pageid=74
this is Cheshire constabulary website but they are pretty much national rates - starting at £20K
So a PCSO is paid way more than half a full-time copper.
This is a sham, a con, a diabolical attempt to make the public feel safe when they're no safer than before this ridiculous concept.
PCSO's have limited powers. They can't arrest other than citizen's arrest, they can't detail people against their will - what's the point? Oh, yes the point is to fool the general public into thinking that there are more police on the beat than there really is. You look at a distance, what do you see? A uniform that makes you think there's a copper around - says it all doesn't it.
Feel safe? I don't.
Feel confident that crime is being detected/prevented? I don't.
Feel conned? I do.
How pleased I am to able to concur with Oblivious for a change, wholeheartly agree with all that was said.
Good lord Jambuster!! It's a good job I'm sitting down.
But you know I make sense all the time really ;-)
When you make intelligent comments you deserve to be complimented, but when you talk crap then you will be critised.
Now I am sitting down
As far as I know basically nothing, I have seen one of them talking to very young children drinking and smoking in the Manor Park, and not once have they taken away the booze this has happened many times.
