General Discussion
With the current incumbent AMMorris you dont need to look up tactical voting to decide who to tactily vote for,as the lib dems have been the opposition for years, however that does not mean you should vote for them either reform and SDA are other options but would mean a split in the conserative vote allowing the lib dems in. If the local record of the lib dems is repeated with a lib dem mp god help as all....
Ed davey _alledgely said all woman have penises
Involved in post office scandel then employed as a consultant by the very same firm prosecutibg the posrmasters.
Getting publicity by falling of paddle board and cycling stupidly for pr purposes .how infintatile as a leader.
Sunak . Day day disaster plus failure on awhole range of issues the only good point he was able.to day what a woman was.
Stammer - where to begin anti-semitic party,flip flop unable to give definitive anawers about policy or where money coming from.etc etc.
All in all a useless bunch of politicans from.the main parties.
Perhaps time to try someting different.........
Well, for those who do not wish to have a further 5 years of Conservative government it seems to me that we have to have as few Conservatives (re)elected as possible. And the best bet in this constituency is, as you freely admit, the Lib Dems.
And there's the rub, it is a very tough decision 5yrs more tories nationally or lib dems locally. Absolutely disgusted how lib undemocratics treat us locally. So a tory vote locally won't change the national picture but may avoid a local lib dem candidate.. win win
There are other polls predicting Labour are ahead; https://stopthetories.vote/parl/newton-abbot Stop the Tories will call in favour one party later today.
Best for Britain has today called it for Labour; https://www.getvoting.org/constituency/E14001381
The Polls don't even include the South Devon Alliance. They're comprised by organizations not based here in S. Devon, they do not reflect local nuances and the rise of minor parties and independents. Take them with a huge pinch of salt. Some polls predict a Labour win here, other's a Tory hold, some Lib Dem. Could it be that they are all far from neutral?
It's a fallacy that the Lib Dems are still the opposition. Labour came second in 2017, before the Lib Dems returned to second in 2019.
We won't have another 5 years of Conservative government. There is absolute no chance. Labour are expected to win with a landslide not dissimilar from Blair in 1997.
Tactical voting isn't relevant in our Consitituency because ALL the reasons for stopping the Tories and removing Anne-Marie Morris also apply to not electing Lib Dem Wrigley.
Can you vote tactically to keep both from being elected?
If there's really nobody on the ballot who speaks to or for you, then bear the above in mind.
The SDA could take votes off all parties, not just the Tories. That includes people who would've voted Lib Dem in 2019.
That was 2019, way back when Lib Dems like Wrigley had only been in power in the District Council for 6 months. A year later they were in coalition with Bullivant's Tories. Fast forward and we see how they have simply facilitated Tory policies such as the unwanted Queen St project - workmen are complaining that they are digging holes in the road, only to be told to fill them in the next day and that the plans change all the time. That example points to the awarding of lucrative contracts within a boys network, not based on local need - it's just creaming off our taxes. It's greed. Typical Tory behaviour from Lib Dem run Teignbridge District Council and Tory Devon County Council, working as one. What is the difference?
Lib Dem supporters ignore Wrigley's toxic Council and have the audacity to tell us to vote tactically to stop the Tories. They don't mind the toxicity, the lies, the breaches of human rights, the lack of democracy, the bullying of Council staff by Cllrs - no they ignore all that as long as the yellow Lib Dems are in power. They lack any integrity.
None of the above is reflected in the polls.
Yes the vote could get split, so what? Voting Wrigley to oust Morris is like quitting alcohol addiction and taking up glue snifffing as the SDA candidate Liam Mullone put it.
I do not take it for granted AT ALL that the Labour Party will have a massive majority. It could turn out to be another 1997 on the other hand it could be another 1992.
That is why tactical voting is needed if you don't want another 5 years of Tory government.
@Lynne Telling people to vote Lib Dem to stop the Tories time and time again is really wearing thin, because of you're absolute refusal to acknowledge on any level that your cherished candidate Wrigley has an awful record in local government and is widely considered the opposite of a liberal and a democrat; illiberal and undemocratic.
Why should anyone listen to or believe the same old 'We're not the nasty Tories' rubbish?
@Lynne I have made people aware that the SDA exists. I haven't told anyone who to vote for, unlike you in this thread. Why should anyone listen to you after 5 years of Lib Dem local government which puts them firmly in the toxic category along with Morris and the Tories.
You can't even acknowledge the Lib Dem's awful record in local government or the fact the South Devon Alliabce has been the only political group holding them to task and serving the public. Therefore you've no credibility when it comes to discussion on local politics and in partcular your support for Wrigley.
I see you've changed your mind and decided posTing on Dawlish.com isn't a waste of your time any more. Which incidentally was pretty discourteous to other users and the Webmaster and all their efforts, says a lot about you.
So if you aren't advocating that people should vote SDA then why do you keep going on and on and on about them and posting their candidate's election address.?
If you didn't want people to vote SDA then you wouldn't be doing that, would you?
PS I see that the SDA candidate openly admits that "Labour isn't putting up a fight here".
@Lynne I will be voting SDA, because government at any level cannot function in the interests of the people on corrupt foundations. It is that simple.
And yes I advocate that others vote for the SDA, but I also offer valid reasons for doing so.
I haven't told anyone to vote for the SDA. I haven't just issued an instruction without offering a sound argument for doing so, unlike your post.
There is a difference between 'telling' and 'advocating', something I don't think you appreciate.
Ultimately it is up to the individual to make an informed choice and that isn't possible unless they have as much information as possible.
With that in mind;
Can you tell us why we should vote for Lib Dem Wrigley, other than the fact that he's not Anne Marie-Morris?
C'mon give us some valid reasons, other than this tactical vote nonsense.
P.S. Yes Liam Mullone the SDA candidate would say that, 'Labour isn't putting up a fight', he like all other candidates wants people to vote for him and not Labour.
Who knows if Labour are putting up a fight or not? The fact is a Labour candidate is on the ballot paper. Who knows if any polls are accurate about Labour or the Tories or even the Lib Dems winning this seat. Or Labour or the Lib Dems being the only challenger to Morris. How the hell should I know? One poll puts Reform UK ahead of Wrigley. None include the SDA, so in my opinion the polls are flawed for the reasons given above.
My valid reason for tactically voting Lib Dem is that I think he stands more chance of beating AMM than the Labour candidate. Voting tactically is not nonsense. It makes non-sense not to do so.
And I would vote Green or Labour tactically ( as appropriate) in any other constituency for the same reason.
@Lynne I asked you to tell us why we should vote for Lib Dem Wrigley other than the fact he's not Tory Anne-Marie Morris, i.e. other than tactical voting reasons whether you think that's valid or not.
I still await your answer.
I've given you my answer .
I vote tactically because of the voting syyem that we have.
Different people have different reasons for voting the way that they do.
My prority is how I can best express my anti-Tory vote.
And from my point of view that isn't by voting for the SDA candidate (or any other for that matter).
@lynne yes you can vote for the lib dems, shame that you didnt say upfront you are a lib dem supporter...me i am not biased as i detest all of the main party politicans and have no political affiliations, but what strikes me is that rotten borough have said that wreigly contacted webmaster about sda comments , i dont know if that is true but if it is why, as he not answered or refuted the comments. I assume he looks at the posts but does not have the balls to come out and defend himself ..is that the sign of a leader, ? or if all is true about lib dem run council .If he cannot do it on dawlish threads what chance will he do it in the houses of P when he needs to grow some.
Ps :am morris also does not post on this forum but have not seen the same level of allegations against her.
Apologies for the awful spelling.
@Lynne Jesus. this really is wearing thin and getting tiresome. You haven't answered my question. I already know that you state you're voting for Wrigley because you want rid of Morris.
If you don't want to tell us other reasons for voting for Wrigley and the Lib Dems, then just say so. You're not obliged to. However if participating in a discussion forum where you're attempting to influence other voters, don't be surprised when people ask for other reasons, some deeper reflection than 'he's not Morris', 'he's not Tory'. Discussion, involves dialogue, that's a two way process. Whereas you seem accustomed to telling folk what to do, yet unwilling to explain yourself.
I would counter the Stop The Tories vote in relation to Wrigley simply by pointing toward the Lib Dem/Tory coalition in the last TDC administration and how on many issues that unholy alliance seems not to have ended; from Queen St, Over-development like NA3, the loss of ecologically important SSIs where corporate housebuilders and their Tory shareholders will make vast profits, etc.
I'd also highlight the coalition in 2010 - 2015 where the Lib dems handed the Tories the keys to power and gave us the last 14 years of the policy of austerity. @Lynne's childcare campaign still refers back to policy pledges made by the that government, pledges that were never costed, or thought through but probably won the Tories a few votes. She emphasizes this as a Tory fault, but it was first implemented under the Tory/Lib dem coalition. Why she'd believe the Tories would deliver on childcare when it was never publicly funded and at a time when the Tories with the help of their Lib Dem pals under Clegg began to dismantle the welfare state is beyond me? Why would anyone trust a Tory? Then again the Lib dems U-Turned on tuition fees and Proportional Representation in that same coalition, so why would anyone trust them? Especially given the repercussions of that coalition are still felt to this day; the Post office scandal and Ed Davey's role in one reason I'd never vote Lib Dem. He's having a whale of a time building sand castles here in S. Devon today apparantly - such desperate needy attention seeking, he's a child in a podgy man's body.
@1263 Lib Dem Cllr and parliamentary hopeful Martin Wrigley did make a complaint to the Webmaster a few weeks ago about things that he alleges are 'less than truths', Webmaster I assume using Wrigley's words here. It is either true or not. Webmaster asked Wrigley to point out which post or posts he refers to - Wrigley never replied. A bit like @Lynne being unable to provide any valid reasons for voting for Wrigley that could possibly outweigh the many more valid reason for not voting for this anti-democrat.
Whatever I've written about the Lib Dems, Wrigley and his Tory allies are not allegations. I've referred to press reports, BBC news items, Council meetings (i.e. where Lib Dem Cllr Gary Taylor assaulted Liam Mullone - you can view this yourselves), Council minutesetc e,g. - it is true that all Committees in TDC under Wrigley's Lib Dems, bar one For Tory Bullivant are chaired and vice chaired by Lib dems, this is against all Local Government Association Guidelines. This is documented. The Ombudsman's report, The Local Gov't Review - both damning can be read by anyone. Cllr R daws of the SDA did have his human rights breached over a 3 year period, costing us the taxpayer £30K - you can look this up yourselves.
Wrigley's complaint was an attempt to intimidate because he does not want any of this discussed here on Dawlish.com or anywhere else for that matter. he must be very worried. That was an attempt to control the narrative, he probably feels he's entitled to do so; which I see as arrogance. It's also hypocritical given the misinformation and lies his party puts out there from their Focus Leaflets at election time to dodgy letters in the paper. It is also the Lib Dems modus operandi, given the reports we read in the press about Council staff being intimidated, harassed and bullied by District Cllrs. I can tell you it's not the SDA Councillors or the 3 Independents for Bishopsteignton, Shaldon and Haytor doing the bullying; that leaves the Lib Dems and the Tories
@1263 By all means contact the Webmaster to verify the above complaint made. I'm all for transparency and openness.
Jeez! What a rant.
Yes I am fully aware of the Lib Dems part in the Coalition government and I don't think threy will be doing anything like that again.They got a bloody nose in the 2015 GE as a result.
I' was beginning to think that for some reason you thought I was answerable to you. So glad that you realize that
I. am. not.!
BTW - not in the least bit impressed by the SDA candidate.
@1263 -don't think I've held back from expressing where my political support lays in this constituency in this GE. As previousy stated, I would be voting Labour or Green if I lived elsewhwere.
@Lynne I don't expect you to be impressed by the SDA candidate, you've been charmed by Wrigley. Charm is a useful tool, but it is superficial and acquired.
I won't be intimidated when I'm simply trying to raise awareness and highlight an alternative candidate and political group taking on the failed, dysfunctional norm; Wrigley represents the worst aspects of modern politics. He is not part of the solution, he is not the antidote to Tory Morris, he is part of the problem.
@lynne good to finish on an upbeat note saying you might vote for the tree huggers and car haters if u lived elsewhere. The lib dem council declared a climate change emergency and to address this employed someome with a salary of £35k to probably make graphs and push papers around costing the taxpayer £165k over the next 5years (not including defined benefit pension).On a different tack wonder how many people have been fined for a) more than 4 dogs on a lead b) dogs on out of season restriction beach policies which were never going to be policed properly.
Methiks this sort of money could be better spent elsewhere e.g replacement bridge at manor park, proper public garden path maintence etc etc.and then dems complain about no money from central goverment .. The old adage about cutting cloth to suit never enters their thinking when its taxpayers money.
@1263 Lib Dem run Teignbridge District Council and Tory Devon County Council are wasting millions of taxpayers money on unwanted projects like Queen St in Newton Abbot that could be used over here in Dawlish. However as these two Councils are just obeying orders from Tory Central government they try to pull the wool over our eyes with sham consultations to make it appear 'democratic'.
There should have been an enquiry as to why the Manor bridge needed replacing so soon and if the contractor was at fault they should've rectified the bridge at no expense to the taxpayer. The fact the Lib Dems in TDC did not go down this route, shows that there is money to be made from cycles of contract work linked to local government, which is all very dodgy. Whoever benefits it isn't the public.
Employing a Climate Change Officer on £35K isn't such an issue or particularly over the odds based on qualifications and experience. The issue is the embodied energy and fossil fuel costs of infraestructure changes like Queen St, and housing over-development (most of which unaffordabe) and how that effects local ecosystems, species loss, climate emissions mitigation/carbon capture, flood risk, etc. More building, more people, more cars, more pollution, less productive arable land and more sewage - the Lib Dems are far from Green, the problem isn't the Climate Change Officer role and salary in itself, it's the 'greenwash' that comes out of TDC.
In the case of Queen Street local people and traders don't want it, there is no plan, work is carried out today undoing or reversing the work carried out yesterday, meanwhile traders are down on their takings by 70%. That all has a knock on effect over here, public funds are being haemoraged without any regard. It takes the piss.
Effectively the Lib Dems are doing the same as the Tories in power, so tactically voting in Wrigley to get Morris out is just swapping one Tory for another. New parliament, same old crap.
Article on the bbc in-depth program talking about voting and bar charts mentioning a lib dems north devon leaflet sayng only the lib dems can win, here showing a bar chart which showa data from years ago and not even mentioning the tories. If thats the calibre of decit by this party why would anyone vote for them. They rightly treat the pubic as fools who dont know any better.
Time for a radical rethink of where to cast your vote as all the main parties complicit in lies and falsehoods to get into power at any cost.
@1263 The Lib Dems here use the same tactics too, and have been doing for years.
Here's an example from Wrigley's recent propagandist BS;
This is a complete misrepresentation as there is no mention of the official opposition in Teignbridge, The South Devon Alliance. They came second behind the Lib Dems and ahead of the Tories. This graph shows how the Lib Dems will do/say/publish whatever it takes to gain or consolidate power, including using deceit and lying to the electorate.
Lib Dem Focus leaflets peddling misinformation is rife and has been for years. They get away with it - the main two parties would be torn apart by the media and by the opposing party, for using such underhand methods. Shows how the Lib Dems go under the radar as an also-ran/irrelevance much of the time. Electoral rules and the law should be enforced.
There are lots of articles about the Lib Dems dodgy tactics, but they get away with it year on year. Here's one from Dorset; https://www.dorsetecho.co.uk/news/24250039.lib-dems-accused-spreading-misinformation-leaflet/
Here's another about Lib Dem misreprestation - ed davey calls it an honest mistake, BS! It happens time and time again, it is party strategy; https://www.otsnews.co.uk/lib-dem-campaign-leaflet-pulled-for-misrepresenting-election-results/
Below are the SDA Cllrs who won their seats in the local elections in 2023. The party the Lib Dems ignore and are very scared of. You can view all the Cllrs on TDC and get an overview of the true picture here;
https://democracy.teignbridge.gov.uk/mgMemberIndex.aspx?FN=PARTY&VW=LIST&PIC=0
