General Discussion

Okay - I'll start the ball rolling again.

Read this and discuss

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honor_killing

The attempted control of women also happens on this website. Particularly by a certain white, middle-aged, red-faced man who whines to this sites webmaster when they don’t like what he subjectively reads. He’s an utterly hypocritical racist/misogynistic prick. I don’t need to name names...

This is already going down hill, before it starts. What a hoot!

The blight that keeps on giving, although not wanted.

And here they come. The freedom of speech brigade wanting to censor others. 

Let's look at this controlling of women, by men, in this country.

At present day Christian marriage ceremonies do women still promise to 'obey' their husbands? Surely if you promise to obey someone then that means the other person has control over you.

And as I'm on the subject of marriage. Why is the bride 'given away'?

"Who giveth this woman to this man?"

And then the bride changes her surname from that of her father to that of her new husband. Denoting what? A transfer of ownership from one man to another? 

For some reason (ahem!) a memory came to my mind of an incident way back in the late 1960s/early 1970s when an aunt of mine told me that her husband had to give his permission for her to have a hysterectomy.

So whose womb was it?!!!!!

Anyway,  having checked to see if my memory was fabricating things or indeed that all this did indeed take place, I checked.

And yep! It sure did more than likely occur as this practice (of needing a husband's permission to remove his wife's womb) did not stop until 1972.

lhttps://www.justanswer.co.uk/law/8wfg3-when-law-change-married-woman-surgery.html

I suggest you seek psychiatric help, Mrs C, I'm sure you will benefit from it.

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear. Here we go.

Accusations of insanity to women who won't stay quiet/answer back/conform to the norm 

In order to stop the bickering, anyone posting personal attacks from now will have their account suspended, so please let's stop it.

Won't be anybody left.

Name calling:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/life/ambitious-frigid-and-frumpy-25-words-we-only-use-to-describe-wom/ 

@Lynne, i think you are just a little bit out of date. the choice of wording for marriage vows at any wedding, including christian, has been up to the individual since at least 1970! i was first married in 1975 and never included the ridiculous notion of obey, nor at my second marriage ceremony. and more than half of my friends kept their own name, including me. women do have choices, some choose to obey and take their husbands name and overs don’t, neither are wrong.

Margaret, I know it is now a choice whether to include the obey vow.  But that is only a fairly recent event as you yourself point out.  I know also that some married women keep their father's surname (or double-barrel it with that of their husbands - some husbands even do the same) but again all this is fairly recent stuff. 

"Only in 1965 did married women in France obtain the right to work without their husbands’ consent. In Australia, married women could not apply for passports without their husband’s approval until 1983. Britain did not make marital rape illegal until 1991."

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/feb/02/thats-patriarchy-how-female-sexual-liberation-led-to-male-sexual-entitlement

Contemporary Britain may not be as patriarchal as it has been in the past, lots of progress has been made, but there is still some way to go.  

Women and sexual activity. Why are women (and gay men?) on the receiving end of, for example, 'slut shaming' and not men? 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slut-shaming  

and I've just read this today online https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/merseyside-police-rape-tweet-victim-blaming-liverpool-council-twitter-a8498736.html 

so what are we saying? That if women act and dress in a certain way then if they get raped it is their fault? That the man/men who do the raping are not at fault? 

@Lynne i responded to your post because you specifically said at present day christian marriages. you were implying that everything you said is happening now, to everyone, which is not true. things have improved and, yes, there is still some way to go, particularly in the way the media (the whole spectrum of media) depicts males and females. 

Actually, I asked a question - note the question mark.

"At present day Christian marriage ceremonies do women still promise to 'obey' their husbands?" 

Perhaps it should be amended  to:

"At present day Christian marriage ceremonies do (some) women still promise to 'obey' their husbands?" 

Here's another question: why was/is it the woman who promises to obey the man and not the other way around? 

I wonder if it has anything to do with women's place according to the bible?:

The bible is a collection of books written (made up) by men so why do you think it would say anything other than control over women given the time these stories were written?

We have worked to correct the indoctrination of religion over recent history. We still have work to do but laws/attitudes over the last 40 years are moving in the right direction.  

I totally agree that the bible is a collection of stories made up by men. But others think it is all the word of God. And isn't God a male? 

And it's not only Judaism/Christianity that has this attitude towards women. Click on this link and then scroll down to the In Religious Thought section.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matriarchy

@S .. do you have the same view towards, say the quran?

@DEEDOODLE yes, all religions were made up by men.

@DEEDOODLE I would put all Abrahamic religions in the same box as they have similar roots to their beliefs