General Discussion
They don't like it up'em.
A senior Conservative has accused Boris Johnson of "bigotry" after he said women wearing burqas look like letter boxes and bank robbers.
And the senior conservative was Baroness Warsi, a Pakistani Muslim.
One senior poli has a dig at muslims and another senior poli of the same party has a dig at boro. We should be like Poland, after all, we have plenty of poles living here that are most welcome.
So Boro ain't going to apologise. And his leader has asked him too as well as others. Well done Boro!!!!
Snap means I win. And weak May will not give Boro the push even though she has asked him to apologise, so what does that say about May?
Ex-Tory chairwoman Baroness Warsi said Mr Johnson's remarks could trigger a rise in hate crime.
So she believes there is already hate crime but she doesn't want to stoke the fire with remarks that doesn't suit some people.
Men have worn burkas in the past as a disguise to flee the police, and even to rob a bank:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6624837.stm
They are clearly a security risk.
I wish she could ban all the little England, bigotted berks. Unfortunately we have to put up with these horrible little minded people :(
Whilst we’re on the subject of robbing banks, I’d also ban motorcycle helmets, balaclavas, and masks of Donald Trump. Oh and hosiery tights, obviously...
Motorcycle helmets are already forbidden in banks and supermarkets, but I'm sure you already knew that, Mrs C.
Once again bird brain Mond has not shown any posivtivity about a muslem. Pointing out that one person has not been harmed by their activities, mean nothing. It is costing all of us billions to try and protect us from their brainwashed idealizims. Yet Mond cannot see it and must believe they are the best thing since sliced bread.
They can strike at anytime anywhere and do not care a damn about the innocent people that get in the way.
Les hope the Strand in Dawlish is not their next target.
I think you're confusing muslems (sic) for terrorists. Please stop calling women bird brains majorp. No-one will take you seriously if you resort to name calling.
Thomas Hamilton, Dunblane 1996, shoots and kills 17 people, 16 of them children
Michael Ryan, Hungerford 1987, shoots and kills 16 people, and died himself
Hyde Park, 1982, IRA blow up and kill 11 people
Enniskillen, 1987, IRA blow up and kill 12 people
Are you spotting my theme here? Not one of the perpetrators wore a hijab, niqab or burka or professed to be Muslim, if fact quite a number claimed to be 'Christian'*
*not by my definition of the word, my God is a loving God whatever you call him/her
Terrorism is, in the broadest sense, the use of intentionally indiscriminate violence as a means to create terror among masses of people; or fear to achieve a financial, political, religious or ideological aim. That has been clear in London and other parts of the country. And for all we know, they maybe planning something else. It is trying to forestall those activities that are costing us billions.
Muslims are as far as I can see the main protagonists of terrorism. Just look at what is going on in the middle east. It is not catholics that are doing it, it is not jehovah witness that are doing it, it is not even those that follow the faith of buddah that are doing it, etc, etc. It is muslems.
The argument goes that by banning muslems from wearing what they like, is taking away their freedom. Well turn it on it's head and allow people in this country to walk around with nothing on and then find out who would be the first to complain about that - muslems you can bet your bottom dollar. In Australia, signs went up on some beaches which said "respect ramadan, no bikinis on this beach" the Aussie woman replied by taking off their bikinis and wore nothing. I am told there was uproar in some places but others enjoyed what they saw.
We communicate just like monkeys with facial expressions. How can that apply to those that decide to cover their face?
London tube and bus bombings 2005
Soldier Lee Rigby murdered on a London street May 2013
Westminster Bridge terror attack March 2017
Manchester Arena bombing May 2017
London Bridge terror attack June 2017
Are you spotting a theme here?
And a bomb doesn't know it's victims, but the aim of a gun does. More were killed and more were injured by those bombings than were killed by the gun attacks.
Boro is facing a possible investigation into breaches of conservative party code of conduct.
Nothing decided in that sentence.
The party has received dozens of complaints about the former foreign secretary’s comments about woman wearing Burka’s who he said looked liked letter boxes.
He is entitled to his opinion and what else do they look like and only dozens of complaints.
The complaints will be looked at by an independent panel.
A Conservative party spokeman said: And this is the part that I like - “The code of conduct process is strictly confidential”.
The former foreign secretary has come under intense pressure from Tory MPs, including Theresa May, to say sorry for describing Muslim women who wear the face covering as “letter boxes”.
But Taj Hargey, the imam at Oxford Islamic Congregation, said while Johnson’s choice of language was unfortunate, the burka and niqab are “a nefarious component of a trendy gateway theology for religious extremism and militant Islam”.
Writing in The Times, he said facial maskings were “un-Muslim” and contributed to “gender-inequality and inhibiting community cohesion”.
Yep, just as I thought.
What a lovely bigoted thread, well done. Makes Dawlish look like such a welcoming place.
Oh and would anyone care to tell me what you think is the percentage of Muslims that are terrorists?
It’s perfectly possible to criticise face veils without being racist. Instead of doing that, Boris Johnson decided to say the women wearing them look like “bank robbers” and “letter boxes”. People thought this was racist because:
There are obviously a percentage of Muslims that are terrorists, what that percetage is, is anyone's guess.
It is in the region of 0.00001% so stop blaming muslims for all the worlds evils. Christians are for more culpable for massacres.
Can we think of a different title for the thread? I think it is OK to discuss news topics and express views, but I did feel a bit uncomfortable with the title and first post when I first saw this thread.
Islam is not a race so buffoon Boris comments were not racist.
Islam as a religious set of beliefs is an ideaology just as a political set of beliefs is an ideaology. I've seen plenty of nastiness written in this forum and elsewhere towards those with a different political belief from their own. If people find it acceptable to be derogatory about an opposing political ideaology, I don't see how they can then complain when others are equally derogatory about an opposing religious ideaology.
Boris and all of us would find more happiness if we focused more on the things that bring us closer together and unite us, rather than on the things that don't. Find common ground and a natural balance will follow.
Islam is a religious ideaology adopted by vast numbers of Africans, Asians, Arabs, ect etc...the list is long.............each with their own unique racial, ethnical and cultural differences. Hating a person based on their religious beliefs is not racism it's bigotry. There are those who twist its meaning to play the race card to suit their agenda but this is unhelpful because it lessens the impact when true racism does occur. The more the public hear it falsely claimed the more they will eventually switch off to it.
Boris jumping on the latest bandwagon in his desperate attempt to be prime minister. I'm fed up of hearing how clever he is as he's yet to prove it.
Yes burkhas are worthy of debate but not in the way he's done it.
Yet again Jonathan Pie sums it up for me (warning some bad language).
lol Call it feckin twatiscm as far as I care, it's still hating those that are different to the "racist" twats that are spouting so much hate!
Whatever others thought of the title to this thread, it has brought about a variety of different views/opinions.
If this site had been somewhere in the midlands, I am pretty sure there would have been many more differing views.
I have had some experience of views from those that live there. Down here I doubt many has had the same.
Interesting link concerning Indian (mostly non muslim) and Pakistani and Bangladeshi (mostly muslim) immigration to Britain.
and also see this link for previous politician/newpaper incursions into this subject
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_debate_over_veils
and this link for a thought provoking article written by a politically Left leaning muslim journalist (see also the comments posted underneath the article).
Rowan Atkinson has defended Boris Johnson after his controversial comments about women wearing burkas.
The actor, known for his comedy performances in Mr Bean and Blackadder, said the remarks were funny.
Atkinson wrote in a letter to The Times: "As a lifelong beneficiary of the freedom to make jokes about religion, I do think that Boris Johnson's joke about wearers of the burka resembling letterboxes is a pretty good one."
I have been speaking to an educated 92 year old this morning, and whilst he has no time for Boro, he agrees with what he said.
He went on to tell me of things that people in this part of the world have no idea as to what is happening in Birmingham, Wolverhampton and Bolton. He told me how they have taken over much of those places and named a few no go areas by certain people. I cannot repeat on here some of the things that went on when he lived in those areas, but some of them were quite frightening.
It will be very interesting to see how things pan out in the near future.
And now we learn that the bastion of the Left, The Guardian, coined the letterbox term back in 2013, and quite hypocritically criticises Boris Johnson for using the exact same word.
In 2013, it published a column by Remona Aly entitled ‘Nine uses for a burqa … that don’t involve bashing them.’ In it, the author suggests several alternative uses for the face-covering. Examples included using it as a ‘getaway costume’ and, remarkably:
‘7. Relaunch the postbox
Since the burqa eye-opening has been called a letterbox slit, and with the privatisation of the Royal Mail, seize the moment to set up an independent mobile mail service, AKA The Burqa Post.’
https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/08/letterbox-gate-who-said-it-first-boris-or-the-guardian/
I have read that one reason that (some) muslim women wear niqabs (eyes only showing) or burkas (face totally covered with eye sight enabled via what looks like webbing of some kind) is because Islam exhorts both men and women to dress modestly.
Fair enough.
But in that case why is it only muslim women who are exhorted to wear face/hair/body coverings? Why not muslim men as well?
for info - click on this link for examples of different types of Islamic female face/hair/body coverings
https://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/24118241
A certain poster keeps screaming "racism" over comments on this thread, but this story rather proves that being a Muslim is not a matter of race.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-45147682
As this thread seems to be covering (sorry, terrrible pun) wider aspects of Islam as well as that directly pertaining to the wearing of the Niqab and Burka I thought I'd post this:
Overcoming Historical Amnesia: Muslim Contributions to Civilization ...
5 Muslim Contributions to Modern Society | HuffPost
What has Islam contributed to the modern world in the last 200 ...
Islamic world contributions to Medieval Europe - Wikipedia
Contribution of Islam to the worlds civilization
How Islamic inventors changed the world | The Independent
Contributions of Islamic Civilization to the Modern World - IslamiCity
Muslim inventions that shaped the modern world - CNN.com
Why has the Muslim world made no Contribution to Science and ...
10 Things You Use Every Day That Are Invented by Muslims | Mvslim
Why are their brothers trying to undo what they have done by terrifying the world with the atrocities they carry out.
If you do a search using words like 'What is Islamic terrorism?' you will get a long list of threads which you can read so to enlighten yourself.
Here's one of them
https://www.hoover.org/research/religious-sources-islamic-terrorism
Muslim convert admits London terror plot.
He hoped to kill 100 people.
What is it being a muslim?
Try doing what I suggested in my post above.
and then also take a look at this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_terrorism
Don't be silly Lynne, he could of course ask his educated 92 year old friend. But then what do I or any of us in Devon know, we can't compete with majorp's experience, although I may be wrong but a lot of the people who post on here aren't originally from Devon. Even though this bird brain's family is from the midlands and I have a (shock horror) female muslim friend (ban me now).
I don't see any Christian terrorists blowing up the tube, or driving vehicles into people on the streets of London.
The point I am making, but which it seems some are having trouble understanding, is that not all muslims are terrorists anymore than all christians were/are.
Please do read that link I posted.
It seems to me that we need to stop analysing the whys and wherefores of Islamic terrorism from our Western Christian/Judaic/post Enlightenment point of view and look at it from the point of view of how the writings in the Quoran are understood, and consequently followed through, by those who are of the Islamic faith.
Once again flo has got it wrong. Did I say the 92 year old was a friend of mine? I may never see that person again, but I have taken on board what he told me.
If flo and others wish to get a grip of what is really going on with reports they see in the papers perhaps(because I can't do it) obtain a clip of those that entertained many of us, "Yes Minister", where the minister is giving his account of the readers of the different news papers that we are presented with every day. If someone could find it and post it on this site, I am sure there will be more discussion. It starts by saying the Daily Mirror is read by people who think they run the country, then the Guardian is read by those that think they ought to run the country, Times is read by those that do run the country and so on until they get to the sun news paper. It is hilarious but ought to open the eyes of some readers of this site.
As usual, those who wave the “freedom of speech” flag to excuse their abhorrent views, are the first to complain about other people having a discussion about their views. Sigh.
In a turbulent world, how reassuring it is to see that things carry on as normal on Dawlish.com. in the meantime, perhaps all immigrants could adopt the philosophy of ,"When in Rome".
Just as Brits have done when they've gone off to live in other places around the world. (irony alert - I am being sarcastic)
Talking of immigrants and being in Rome
Amongst other things being a member of the above site means you'll get to know where the best roast beef in Rome gets served.
and here's a little something about ex pat (ie immigrant) Brits in Spain https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vE-01g5Abg
Not obsessed at all B/S. Just pointing out the British hypocrisy with regard to the 'When in Rome.....' saying.
This will wet the appetite of those that doubt the arguments of the burka.
I was talking to a FRIEND of mine this morning when I went to Exeter. He is a Tory and agrees whole heartedly with what Boro said. He went on to tell me of the many friends that he has, that visit the Mosque in York Road, Exeter. They hate those that wear the burka and those that do wear one are discouraged not to visit their Mosque wearing one. He went on to tell me that the wearing of a Burke is a man made condition forced on the woman of Saudia Arabia. So there is no freedom their, they have no choice. It is not part of the quran. So when name calling will not take that person seriously, let the bird brain's get out of their box, go to the mosque in Exeter and ask for their views on the burka and what other muslims are doing to their faith. They are a very moderate bunch of people. And when I am told that peoples freedoms have been taken away. Go and ask the saudi.s why they have taken away the rights of woman. And he also said that burks are not allowed in a court of law in this country. Others may be able to answer why not?
http://gbinfo.uk/biker-told-to-remove-helmet-at-garage-while-woman-in-burka-fills-up-next-to-him/
Copy and paste.
So could it be that the biker who may have held no racist views at all now feels unfairly treated and his views have changed, for me whats good for the goose is good for the gander.
Cabinet ministers 'lash out at Tory top brass over cack-handed' Boris Johnson burqa probe
A host of Cabinet ministers have weighed in behind Boris Johnson in the ongoing Tory war over his comments about the burqa, it has been reported.
I think we should ban all scarves, caps and hats as people have been committing crimes wearing them for years. This is how ridiculous this argument is. You can't ban an item of clothing because a handful of crimes over decades have been committed by people misusing that item! Muslim women have to show their face at airport security if asked but it is done in a private area by a female officer. They aren't hiding anything. Just because you don't understand or try to understand that isn't their fault.
All these white middle-aged men have come out in support of Boris and telling a small group of Muslim women that they are being too easily offended by comments that have caused a spike of hate crime against them. I am all for free speech and comedy can be on any subject but there are still consequences. Muslim women are being attacked in the street and pissed on by bigots fuelled by false stories and rubbish like Boris wrote.
The burka and niqab should be a thing of the past and can be criticised but we should be using educated language, not petty schoolboy jibes. We can change minds with time and through education, integration and understanding.
No, we can't change minds with time and education, people like this do not want to integrate. If they did they wouldn't be walking around completely hidden
apart from a slit in their clothing.
There is no integration in the UK you just have to visit some of our cities to find this out. I am a member of a very well known club with close to one million members and have been for 20 years and as yet have never met a member from any ethnic background apart from white middle class. Now this club admits openly they have a problem but is it there fault, no its those who dont want to be part of a lifestile its up to them to integrate, but has any one considered maybe they just dont want to.
There is integration but we need to work on it and be understanding and drop the us and them rubbish attitude. If no one other than white middle class has joined your club maybe ask yourselves why and not blame the minorities for not joining.
I grew up in a city, in a part of the city that was one of worse in Europe (apparently). I know cities and what good integration can do.
The old British saying you can take a horse to water but you cant make it drink comes to mind.
)Communication in English would be a good start, something you rarely hear in some areas of the country.
@burneside and anyone that likes that comment - if you are in a community where the majority of the residents speak the same language as your first language should they all speak English still? Lynne's point was the British go live in Spain surrounded by other ex-pats and speak English. that wasn't a deflection but a good point.
I agree anyone coming to live in this country should try to learn the language but that doesn't mean they all can or are confident enough to use the language or even want to. Not speaking English will make life harder for them and that is a concern.
Serious question, why is speaking a different language a problem for you?
Because we are in the UK, and English is the national language? By the way, not having the ability to speak English costs the taxpayer dearly, this article is a few years old,
the figures are no doubt higher now.
NHS spends £23m a year on translators
The health service spent £23m last year on translators and interpreters, an increase of 17 per cent since 2007.
Experts said vast sums could be saved if hospitals and GPs pooled resources, and warned that providing translation for those who do not speak English could encourage segregation.
Some NHS trusts translate material into 120 languages.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/9063200/NHS-spends-23m-a-year-on-translators.html
And that is just the NHS, the police and local councils also spend vast sums on translation services.
I wouldn't disagree for one moment that if you go to live in another country that learning its language is important.
So I think it important that courses should be available for those who have moved to this country whose first language isn't English.
Migrants told to learn English upon entering UK face three-year wait ...
ESOL is chronically underfunded - this must change - FE Week
26 Mar 2018 - Funding for ESOL has fallen from £203 million in 2010 to £90 million in ... last week by British Future shows strong public backing for the government to ... Lifelong learning groups have long asked to have the cuts reversed to ...
NHS spends £23m a year on translators - the NHS spends over 300 million A DAY so £23 million isn't that much out of the budget. Yes that £23 million could be spent elsewhere but we would still translators. You don't know the breakdown of that figure, for examples, how much of that £23 million was spent on UK residents vs tourists vs temporary residents?
@burnside. And that is just the NHS, there is the police, local authorities, Prison service and many more. The total cost is mind boggling.
Because we are in the UK, and English is the national language? That doesn't answer the question. If I speak Urdu as my first language and the majority of the people I interact with in my community speak Urdu I should speak English so you know what I'm saying? Why is someone speaking a different a problem?
Well if someone can or will only speak Urdu then they will have a tough time interacting with anybody outside their community. It doesn't do much for social cohesion if a particular community
refuses to speak the local language.
Why shouldn't speakers of language A speak it amongst themselves? I am sure all those native English speakers who are immigrants to other non English speaking countries speak in English amongst themselves.
The issue surely is whether or not immigrants to this country should be able to/be encouraged to be able to, speak the language of the country in which they now live as well as their native language.
I agree that it is difficult for social cohesion, integration call it what you will, if immigrants to a country cannot speak the native language of that country. But it may not be a refusal to do so that is the problem. It may be that
opportunities to learn the host country's language are difficult to access.
Maybe immigration policy needs to change and one of the criteria for gaining access to the UK would be to speak good English maybe it will after we leave the EU and with a bit of luck they will do strict background checks as well.
"after we leave the EU" can you point me to the EU directive that states the immigration from non-EU countries policy?
"speak good English"? We could probably expel a load of English people using this rule too
Leaving the EU will have no impact on the number of Urdu speaking immigrants...
Believe you me, many EU immigrants speak better English than many born and bred here! And certainly have a better work ethic. And that’s from my own experience, not from that of a random 92-year-old.
Well sorry folks would love to carry on this conversation but yet again i am of on my travels back in a few weeks.
@leatash enjoy your travels. I'm sure you're not doing this but so many times people throw statements around and when asked for the evidence to back the claim they change the subject or disappear. I have no problem being proven wrong in my opinion, I will change it but I need evidence. Sorry old-fashioned of me.
Just seen three woman in Dawlish (believed they just alighted a train) two wearing full length burka and one wearing just the top part. The slits were too narrow to post a letter though. I am saying woman, but I don't really know whether it was male or female underneath those black garments.
One thing I can be certain of is, they won't be getting a suntan down here.
@S have you heard of freedom of speech and what part of the comment don't you like?
Opinions are rife on this site, my comments is just another. Like other's have said before, if you don't like what is said, don't read it.
@majorp that's not an opinion though "slits were too narrow to post a letter though", "male or female underneath those black garments" and "One thing I can be certain of is, they won't be getting a suntan down here." are not opinions.
@S, I think the comments could be construed as offensive and so you could be right. I would add that it's not just the forum terms that matter, there is also the racial and religious hatred act 2006 everyone needs to be mindful of when posting.
The good thing about this thread is that there is no longer any doubt (as if there ever was) who the racist bigots with abhorrent views are.
And yet again, freedom of speech is used as an excuse for racism. Truly vile comments from majorp and his supporters.
In PC Britain having an opinion is no longer allowed.
In Iran women are rebelling against having to wear clothing like this, but yet in this country you get castigated for voicing a similar opinion.
No, you can have the opinion without the insults. The opinion that women shouldn't wear the burqa is fine and valid but the insults are not needed when discussing it.
This will stir things up.
I don't think woman should have the vote, they should be bossed around by men like the lady in Iran. Now that's my opinion.
I thought Diana Mond had been voted off a long time ago. Seems like I got it wrong again - oh well!!!!!
Anyone see the news on BBC 1 tonight. There appears to be not much intergration in Birmingham between Pakistani muslims and the rest. Interesting watch with interviews from both sides with their opinions.
Mr Harry, I’m still here and helping make sure that the wider audience of this website don’t think that the abhorrent views of you and your allies represent those of the normal people of Dawlish.
How many normal people do you know in Dawlish? I know many and I don't think they contribute to this site. If they did, I am pretty sure they would shoot you and yours down in flames.
Take a trip to Birmingham, you might learn a thing or two.
I know plenty thank you Peter. Thankfully, your vile views don’t represent the views of any of us normal people.
Birmingham is a fantastic city - I love it there. As do the people from approx 200 different countries who have made it their home.
Leave it out, sweetheart. Public opinion has voted you off this forum more times than I've had hot dinners.
You've gone through so many usernames I have truly lost count.
I suggest that Diana Mond should stop swaning around with her thumb up her bum and her brain in neutral and go and see for herself what intergration is like in parts of Birmingham, Bolton, Wolverhampton etc.
Take her own meat pasties as the ones she will get there will be from animals slaughtered their way. No stun, just cut the poor animals throat, it is not a pleasant sight to see. How can you and your cohorts agree to that? And not only is it done in their slaughter houses, they do it in their back gardens as well.
And don't take my word for it - go see for your self, open your eyes and report back. Until that is done I suggest you shut up.
Have you ever been inside a slaughterhouse majorp?
eta.... also, I guess you feel the same about Jewish people?
"Diana Mond", you really are a nasty, vicious piece of twisted evil. You don't qualify to be called a human being.
And that also applies to the person who agreed with your comment.
@Scapegoat. yes i have and for me it is not a nice place to be. i am glad that our slaughter houses are having cctv fitted so that others can witness what is going on. i have seen the slaughter of most things from chickens to horses.
A lot of people do not know that over 600 horses are slaughtered in the uk every week and many of those are bred as race horses that do not make the grade. I am told that there are only two horse slaughter hoses in the uk, one is in Taunton.
So why does Scapegoat ask if I have been in a slaughter house. There are links to what goes on in slaughter houses. I will provide one such link if you would like to know what really goes on and not have a sort of educated guess as to what you and others think goes on.
I was curious as to why you think halal is any worse than any other slaughter methods including kosher. I was also curious of your opinion of Jewish people for their method of slaughter?
eta... I've been in many slaughter houses thanks, no video needed.
Mrs C, normal, please!!! I note she is trolling me again, what is it with that woman, she can’t seem to bear it when I’m not posting!
Webmaster please sort her out!
@S no, i have not lived in any of those places but have been to all of them. i have friends who live there, i have friends here in dawlish that once lived there. the ones that live here are glad to get away and those that still live there are eager to move. you have to get first-hand knowledge of what it is like to live there, and that is why i suggested to one of the most popular contributors to this site should go and find out what it is like.
@Scapegoat, both methods of the slaughter of animals is abhorent to me. and i have often wondered why the rspca does nothing about it. but i guess they like many other parts of society are afraid of rocking the boat to say anything about it.
I note that this discussion like many others have somehow gone from one topic to another.
I think the carnival was great tonight. Did any readers see me in the parade. I was the one in a burha wearing a brilliant white bowler hat. Couldn't miss me if you were paying attention. I thought I was so good that I was in line for a prize of some sort. But it didn't happen, really disapointed.
Or did I just dream I was there?
This thread has been closed.