General Discussion
Yes, I know, before anyone tells me, we have had working parties and questionnaires and similar stuff on this subject before but........
It is going to happen again!
So contact the town hall if you would like to be involved/have any indeas
This is from the minutes of the last council meeting held early last month. (my emphasis in bold)
"Now that we have our new Clerk on board we can stat to work on a set of Terms of Reference for the Lawn Working group for consideration the February Council when we can appoint the initial members of the group. We have had several expressions of interest from members of the community, and I’d like to encourage others to let us know if you would like to participate."
http://www.dawlish.gov.uk/edit/uploads/2333_684540875.pdf
There is a town council meeting this evening (Wednesday 7th Feb). Item 13 on the agenda concerns the terms of reference for the lawn working group.
How about the new 'Lawn group' could get rid of the ridiculously ineffective prohibition notices from around The Lawn. They are totally ineffective for the purpose they were installed for and the police do NOTHING when the actions of certain people contravene them. All it does is broadcast to visitors that The Lawn and surrounding area of Dawlish are not the place to enjoy a spot of peace and quiet.
Then they could sort out an effective cleaning service for the lazy and disrespectful people who leave their rubbish on The Lawn.
No, in my opinion, they have only been setup to produce daft ideas on how to spend lots of money on things, such as, the micro park for under 8's etc.
From the minutes of the Feb. full council meeting.
THE LAWN WORKING PARTY Members considered the Terms of Reference for The Lawn Working Party.
The proposed terms were as follows: TERMS OF REFERENCE THE LAWN WORKING GROUP The Powers, Duties and functions of this Working Group are as follows:- 1. Constitution The Constitution of this Working Group shall be: • five (5) Members of the Council. The Town Mayor and Deputy Town Mayor are ex officio Working Group members; • one (1) officer of Teignbridge District Council as landowner; and • up to four (4) non council persons may be co-opted to the group. 2. Attendance at meetings Local Government Act 1972 s101, Local Government Act 1972 s102, Parish & community Councils (committees) Regulations 1990 (SI 1990/2476) s3 (1)(a) and Local Government & Housing Act 1989 s13(4) All members of the authority may attend all meetings of the Council and speak thereat with the permission of the Working Group Chairman but may not vote unless a member of the Working Group. Co-opted members may speak but have no vote when making formal recommendations. 3. Purpose In the light of the local plan, the ideas for a neighbourhood plan, the yellow book plans, the current Teignbridge plan and the potential projects for a Cycle path and play park; to consider the desired vision of the Dawlish Lawn. To recommend ➢ 1 whether a play park should be constructed on the Lawn ➢ 2 and if so where and at what size and purpose (age range, type, etc) ➢ 3 how other projects would impact the lawn ➢ 4 whether other projects should be brought forward. ➢
To deliver a desired end state vision of the lawn. ➢ To provide a list of projects and initial guidelines for each that would build to that end state vision. The list may include bandstand renewal, cycle path routing, playpark, and any extra facilities such as additional bridges that may be required. ➢ To identify and document any existing funds or budgets - including Section 106 or CIL - as may be indicated for spend within Dawlish Parish. 4. Quorum of Committee Three voting members of the Working Group shall constitute a quorum. If the number of Councillors present (not including those debarred by reason of a declared interest) falls below the required quorum the meeting shall be adjourned and business not transacted shall be transacted at the next meeting or on such other day as the Chairman may fix. It was proposed that the Terms of Reference be approved, subject to amendments as listed in the resolution. Following discussion, it was Resolved That the Terms of Reference be approved subject to the inclusion of (a) Lighting over the Brook be included in in Section 3 – Purpose (b) That the Working Group provide an interim report to Council within 3 months; (c) That the Working Group provide a final report to Council within 6 months.
Surely the most pressing need on the lawn is a replacement bandstand which looks aesthetically and culturally attractive. Exmouth and Dartmouth both have very good examples of very attractive bandstands which really enhance the environment they stand in.
I haven't seen either, but have looked online just now. Dartmouth is the nicer of the two, plus it has smaller panes of glass in it, so cheaper to replace if they did get damaged. The large panes of glass at Exmouth have been smashed three times by vandals so the online Exmouth paper states and each time they are costing hundreds of pounds to replace. So if there is a new bandstand and it contains glass, it appears that smaller panes take more effort to destroy than one large pane and are less likely to be targeted by the mindless vandals.
In my opinion the last thing on the council and Lawn groups mind will be a cost effective, practical and pleasing to the eye band stand.
Call me cynical, but I would not be surpised if the 1,2,3,4,5 and 6th thing on their mind is a very expensive, ill thought out playpark for a minority of people to use seldomly during the summer months on The Lawn. Use the play park near the Manor House and save The Lawn from shrinkage and spend the money on replacing the bandstand.
Why on earth the council deems it essential to produce a lawn group comprised of :-
5 town council members
Mayor and deputy, oh I forgot ex officio, my bad.
and this is the part I like ....up to 4 non council persons MAY be co-opted....yes, MAY being the operative word.
In my opinion it's just a group, constructed by the same people who ignore the Dawlish people's wishes, to railroad through the unwanted playpark on The Lawn.
Leave THE LAWN alone.
Written without prejudice.
In the earlier part of the minutes it says that the Chamber of Trade wish to have a representative on the working party. Wasn't the CoT in favour of the playpark?
You mean a few hundred people out of 13,000, who responded to a consulation, want a play park.
Should it be built on or left as tis?
Will there ever be an answer to this endless quiz?
But whichever way you think things should go
Be sure to let the town hall know!
townclerk@dawlish.gov.uk
martin.wrigley@gmail.com
burnside that shows that the good folk of Dawlish dont give a monkey's what happens to the Lawn area if i was to put a figure on the amount of folk who really care it could be less than 180.
Seeing as it was reported by several groups and media outlets that '77% of Dawlish residents voted in favour of the play park on The Lawn' . That being well over 10,000 residents in Dawlish, although all residents of Teignbridge were also allowed to contribute to the questionaire, 77% of 10,000 is, I wonder, under a 1,000 ... I think not.
lies, damned lies and statistics.
The Lawn is a wonderful open area. Apart from the bandstand it should remain as it is now. The proposed play area will be white elephant that will be no doubt be vandlised. We are lucky to have this open area, I'm surprised that it hasn't be occupied by travellers. If it ever was a least they would have a play area.
The question of building a playpark on the lawn should only be open to consideration by people born and bred in town or have lived here for at least 20 years the figure of those in favor I suspect would be totally different.
I have just emailed the town clerk asking where and when this new lawn working party convenes and also who sits on it. I'll let you know what info I get back.
and I've had this reply:
The Lawn Working Group had its first meeting today and confirmed its membership and Chairmanship as follows:
Councillor Martin Wrigley – Chairman
Councillor Noel Nickless – Vice Chairman
Councillor Alison Foden
Councillor Lin Goodman-Bradbury
Councillor Val Mawhood
Councillor Gary Taylor
(the Mayor and Deputy Mayor have ex-officio status)
In addition to
Trevor Stratford – on behalf of Dawlish Celebrates Carnival
Helen Wills – on behalf of Dawlish Royal British Legion
Vanessa Ryley / David Force – on behalf of Dawlish Chamber of Trade
I can confirm that it will meet every Friday, 10 a.m. at the Manor House.
Okay so.......I have to say that I am all for having a new bandstand on the lawn and I like the old victorian/edwardian type of design as can be found here
http://www.leanderarchitectural.co.uk/products/bandstands_bandstand/
Thoughts anyone?
Lynne they have been talking about a new bandstand for the last 30+ years in the past there has been money available for a new bandstand, these days i could think of better things to spend money on and at the top of the list would be money for flood prevention at the lower end of Dawlish.
So, if money is in short supply and the top of your list would be for flood prevention, then perhaps flood prevention should take priority.
Rather than a playpark.
And given that the suggested location of the playpark (on ground which is presently covered with grass) would involve that land being covered in a less porous material (or even non porous material) said proposed playpark would only serve to aggrevate the flooding potential.
I still dont get what all the fuss is about everybody knows the play park will be built and the bandstand will be the only thing left standing after Russia nukes us.
Somewhere Leatash, on another thread (on something to do with Brexit I think), you told us that your particular glass was always half full (rather than half empty)..............
To follow on from your post above - if we are all going to get nuked there's no point in building the playpark in the first place, is there?
Best do as Cassandra suggests then and start building nuclear bunkers underneath.
What to do with the lawn? Sorted!
I am very positive Lynne but a realist and the odds say we wont get a new bandstand but will get a playpark me i dont care one way or the other and i look out onto The Lawns every day so one way or the other i will have a change of scenery.
On Thursday this week, there were four families playing on the top section of the lawn in the afternoon ( two football, one rugby and one cricket) when I walked past in the afternoon. Leave it be. Most towns would love a superb space like this.
If the playpark goes ahead, is there a chance that it would become a rusting hulk within a couple of years, with poorly maintained equipment etc? Research from other areas suggests that such facilities are a drain on the public purse because they need to be maintained (yearly cost to Council and potential liability for injuries) and also properly policed, as they often prove a magnet in an evening for teenagers who gather to drink and so on.
I’m not saying these doomsday scenarios will come true, but has anyone looked at the wider impact and future costs? I sense that some time-limited money is available, and Dawlish has a chance to spend it and IS DETERMINED to spend it come what may
@Willkiner - yes you are correct. There is indeed some time-limited money available. Issues concerning money were supposed to be talked about in part B of the last town council meeting but some councillors seemed to forget that (or perhaps they didn't ........?) and spoke about it in the open part of the meeting.
It seems that there is a sum of £20,000 from GWR towards the cost of the playpark but this money is time limited to April 2019. (although September 2019 was also mentioned in the town council meeting).
This sum is less than 10% of the total required which is in excess of £240,000.
The town council already has a total of £120,000 funds that can be committed to the playpark project.
The town council has paid £4,000 to consultants to find more funding for the playpark project.
More money for the 'what to do with the lawn' issue will be forthcoming in the not so distant future by way of Community Infrastructure Levy (CIL)*
*CIL = the amount of money that developers must give to a local authority when they build new houses. Dawlish has had, and will be having, lots of new houses therefore lots of CIL money going TDC's way. Dawlish gets 15% of this money to spend on projects in Dawlish. If Dawlish had a Neighbourhood Plan it would get 25% but Dawlish does not have a Neighbourhood Plan.
Here is a video of the town council meeting. The part concerning the lawn starts approx 1hour 35 mins in.
Dawlish Town Council Meeting 04 April 2018. By the public, for the ...
A video recording of the Dawlish Town Council meeting held at The Manor House in Dawlish at 7pm on the ...
The sooner the Dawlish council can get over going into fever mode everytime some money pops up on the horizon to spend on a specific project. Which then ends up with a blinkered, fevered attitude to spend the money rather than let it go at the expense of anything and everything that then gets trampled on by the spend. IN MY OPINION.
I have received this:
DTC LAWN WORKING PARTY
A working party has been convened by Dawlish Town Council and which also includes representatives from other organisations in Dawlish.
The aim of this group is to bring forward a vision for the future of The Lawn to bring forward to Teignbridge District Council, the landowners, for the long -term future of this much -loved green space.
This work is time-limited and initially we are seeking YOUR thoughts and views. Later there will of course be a Public Consultation however, right now we need to know what YOU think. Remember that the Lawn includes Brook/waterfowl/lights/Bandstand/flower beds/trees/ shrubs/footpaths.
There is a proposal to route part of the cycle path across a corner of The Lawn. There has been recent support for a play park and the mini golf facility is currently being re-built to a high standard in Tuck’s Plot, nearby.
Remember Dawlish also has the Manor Gardens, with a play park, and the green space known as The Newhay.
Charity days/Farmers Markets/Fairs/Dawlish Celebrates Carnival and many other Events are already held on The Lawn.
How do YOU think that it should be used bearing in mind that it is not only valued by local residents but also by our many visitors? What do YOU value about it? What would you like to see there and where? What purpose do you think it does, or should serve? For example do you feel that Dawlish and The Lawn should have a traditional feel, or that it should become more modern/urban?
Please consider the above points together with all the others which concern you and let me know your thoughts and feelings either by e-mail or making a call to 07971 202521 or drop a written response to me at 16, Church Street, Dawlish, EX7 9QR as soon as possible.
Please pass on this invitation to your friends, family and neighbours. Cllr Val Mawhood
Well the wording of her communication, (to which select group of people was this sent, I wonder?), leaves us in no doubt as to which side of the fence she sits on. My opinions will therefore be forwarded to someone on this working party who I'd have more trust in to put forward (rather than file away) my personal views.
Given that the sender makes a point of requesting that the text be shared - see last line- who it got sent to originally is not relevant. It is doing 'the rounds'. That is why I posted it on here. I could just as easily not have done so.
Why not send your opinions to them all if you are so worried.
You’re being very defensive Lynne. Ms Mawhood clearly wants her missive to be sent to like-minded people - which is fair enough, and standard in any campaign - but there’s no way that I’ll be sending my perspective to her. Which is surely my prerogative.
Not being defensive in the least.
Entirely up to people whom they contact (if they choose to contact anyone at all).
As and when I get information on this subject I will post it on here.
Fair does, however certain vocal locals were previously insisting on a local referendum on this matter, but seem to have gone quiet in that respect. Now they seem to be relying on rallying family and friends to their cause, no doubt with a view to saying that the result of their communications means that they speak for “the people”.
".......... initially we are seeking YOUR thoughts and views. Later there will of course be a Public Consultation however, right now we need to know what YOU think. "
Public consultation, well that fills me full of confidence based on the actions taken by the council on previous ones.
Just leave The Lawn alone.
From what has been done to The Lawn over the last few years has not exactly improved the experience, but rather reduced the level of maintenance that has to be done for its upkeep.
Taking the wall down that ran parallel to the high street, IN MY OPINION, has created a very real danger to those using The Lawn if a vehicle were to cross the yellow brick road and into The Lawn area for what ever reason.
This onward march to install some form of micro play park on The Lawn for under 8's just seems to continue pace with papers and council stating how much support it has. When in the real world it has been shown the opposite is the case.
The shelters opposite the bowling green were a mess and a meeting place for the Dawlish drinking and drugs club and toilet for them. To just demolish them with no replacement is so typical of councils. Many public toilets are demolished because of the same issues instead of those whose duty it is to keep peace and order stopping these actions from happening in the first place.
Until the police and the councils start to do their jobs effectively then I see Dawlish ever spiralling downwards as a seaside town people will wish to visit/live in.
The above is my opinion.
1. Have you sent your thoughts above to any/all of those who sit on the new Lawn Working Party?
2. The police and councils (and any other bodies that are funded from the public purse - eg the NHS) can only do what their finances allow them to do. If their finances are cut back then so are the services they can provide.
On a not unrelated subject (ie play parks) see this minute from the meeting of the town council's Civic Amenities Committee held last month.
My italics in bold.
PLAY PARK AT CARHAIX WAY The Clerk advised that he had made enquiries of Teignbridge District Council who had confirmed they would no longer be taking on a maintenance role for any newly constructed play parks across the district. It would likely be provided by a resident’s group or a maintenance company established by the developer. Members confirmed that the play park in question was now open to the public. Resolved That the Clerk investigate whose responsibility it was for ongoing maintenance of the play park at Carhaix Way.
More info about the lawn working party. I asked the town clerk if the meetings will have agendas and minutes and, if so, if these would be put in the public domain. This is what I have been told;
"Working Groups are not decision-making bodies; they investigate particular matters and make recommendations (with rationale) to the Council or Committee that established them. They do not have formal agendas and minutes because the output of the group will be the report(s) back to the Council or Committee with recommendations for a particular course of action(s). As an aside, in practice working groups can meet at any time or place with no public involvement or expectation that the public would attend unless of course they were invited to a public consultation as part of the work of the group."
So.......do I take it that we won't know what they are discussing/have discussed until their final report to the Council? Can we not attend their meetings, and sit in the public gallery, as a.n.other members of the Dawlish electorate?
It would seem not.
Transparency anyone?
From the minutes of the town council meeting held 4th April 2018
PROPOSED PLAY PARK ON THE LAWN Members considered a report which set out the background and current position of the proposed play park on the Lawn which requested Members to clarify the Council’s position in relation to the scheme. It was suggested that Members first agree whether a play park was still wanted somewhere on The Lawn.
Resolved by majority That a play park located somewhere on the Lawn was still called-for.
The Town Clerk advised that the half size option was provided by the Dawlish & Teignmouth Community Interest Company due to concerns of the proposed size of the original concept. They Mayor suggested that the half size plan appeared to indicate there would be a replacement bandstand included in the scheme which had not been originally discussed by the Town Council. Following discussion, it was proposed that the Council pursue option (C) of the agenda report, and to amend the terms of reference of the Lawn Working Group to have a report to Council within 3 months. Resolved That the Lawn Working Group report to Council within three months advising of its recomendations.
κατά τη γνώμη μου, it would seem that because £20k is available for the building of the mini under 8's play park on The Lawn. A further large amount of money maybe wasted building yet another white elephant in Dawlish.
It's no wonder Dawlish's appeal to visitors is indecline even though large sums of money have been spent over the last few years.
As long as funds to develop Dawlish continue to be sanctioned only for irrellevant projects rather than the essentials required by the community.
I see no improvement happening in the future of Dawlish as long as this style of spending continues unchallenged
In the 16 years I have been living here I have seen a slow spiral downwards ..in my opinion.
γραπτή επιφύλαξη
I know the figures below refer to Dawlish Warren but I bet a fair number of them also visit the town during their stay at DW.
Dawlish Warren is a popular beach on the south coast of Devon, UK (see Figure 23.1W). It has been estimated that the site receives over 800 000 visitors per year with about 20 000 visitors a day in peak season.
Thanks Lynne. I think Dawlish has always been more of a day trip type place. People stayed in Dawlish Warren generally and tended to be bucket and space type holidays. I only worked in Dawlish for one year when I was a teenager in the old Sea Chest over somewhere by the Beach Café, can't remember which unit it was now but it wast run by Mary Bealey (sp), an old councillor. I've recently heard about the amount Gay's Creamery sells during the holidays (including bank and Easter) and it's huge. People are obviously visiting and purchasing what takes their fancy.
I personally don't think a small play park will bring people to Dawlish, there's loads of small parks on estates outside of Dawlish and parents are more likely to go to those if they live here and go to Teignmouth if they don't. Who is going to go to the stress of finding somewhere to park for a tiny play park?!
It's such a shame that the idea for redesigning the bandstand wasn't more viable. What would bring people here is music. Keep dogs off the lawn, offer a tender out on deckchairs and have regular festivals/concerts; folk, local youth bands, whatever. It's probably not popular but I'd also encourage the fair to go to Dawlish Warren and not Dawlish. I'd suggest having a gin festival of local gins, the latest buzz event, but the licencing might be an issue now!
I don't know if it's the lack of imagination or the grinding wheels of council red tape that stops anything happening in Dawlish. Stop thinking that dumping new buildings or play parks will improve things and start thinking of alternatives that don't make such a permanent mark.
Events on the lawn late April/May 2018 (info from the T'mouth and Dawlish events guide).
Waterfowl Talks - 2pm every Saturday and Sunday
Drive It Day - Sunday 22nd April 10.am - 4pm Vintage and classic cars
Charity day - Saturday 5th May - 10.am-4pm stalls selling a variety of goods
Dawlish Artisan, Farmers and Produce Mkt - Sunday 6th May - 10.am-3.pm
Dawlish Homecraft & Gift Market - Sunday 20th May - 10.am-3pm
Summer Street Market and Family Fun Day - Saturday 26th May 11am-3pm
Dawlish Free of Plastic Straws - Sunday 27th May from 11.am
Dawlish Cycle and Heritage Day - Sunday 27th May 11am - 4pm
Summertime Chill - Monday 28th May 11am - 4pm - Listen to the sounds of the Panatical Steel Band
Family Fun and Fiction Day - Thursday 31st May 12noon -4pm
Take a look at some of the more constructive comments concerning proposals for the lawn to be found on this thread which is dated, as near as dammit, exactly 4 years ago.
https://www.dawlish.com/thread/details/33750
I believe that part of the lawn would be suitable to be turned into a small lake, forget kiddies play areas, there is the beach.
Talking of water, and given how much rainwater falls on this country, might some thought be given as to whether the waters of the Brook could generate electricity?
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Back in 2008 there was a project undertaken to identify how the town centre (which therefore also includes the lawn area) could be improved. I believe this was called The Yellow Book. I cannot find any online links to the recommendations from this project (although I could until fairly recently) so can't post a link to it on here. However, I suspect that there are those in the town who do have access to this report.
Such as I remember, part of the recommendations were that there should be an eco centre where the wildfowl enclosure presently is. This eco centre's function would be to tell of the natural history of Dawlish. This building should be a 'green' building. Thus how appropriate if the waters of the Brook were able to generate enough electricity for such a centre.
The report also suggested that the Brook be naturalised in that there should be meanders (and not straight as it is now) and that there should be a creation of a wetland margin.
Why are they painting the Bandstand today? It needs knocking down and the millennium bandstand put in it's place.
Earlier this week I received this from the town clerk. My emphasis in bold red
"Working Groups are not decision-making bodies; they investigate particular matters and make recommendations (with rationale) to the Council or Committee that established them. They do not have formal agendas and minutes because the output of the group will be the report(s) back to the Council or Committee with recommendations for a particular course of action(s). As an aside, in practice working groups can meet at any time or place with no public involvement or expectation that the public would attend unless of course they were invited to a public consultation as part of the work of the group."
Now, I fully expect that there are many in the town who are not that bothered one way of the other as to what happens to the lawn (until something does happen of course and they don't like it!). However, there are others who feel very strongly about how it should or how it should not be developed or whether it should be developed in any way at all.
So, given that recent history has shown that issues pertaining to the lawn can be very controversial I thought it politic, if nothing else, that the working group meetings should be open ones ie members of the public should be able to observe them.
I was told that this request would be looked into. That was several days ago. As I write this I have had no response.
Transparency eh?
Hi Lynne, did you ask to be part of the working group? I assume not. This isn’t about a lack of transparency - as you know, members of the public have been invited to provide their opinions by at least one member of the working group. Decisions aren’t made by the working group, so why do you think members of the public should be invited to merely observe their meetings? No doubt the working group will recommend that there be a public consultation before any final decision is finally made, so I’m sure there’ll be plenty of opportunities for the public to have their say. Yet again...
I just think that because this whole topic is so controversial that it makes sense that the working group meetings are open to the public.
And on the topic of members of the public having been invited to provide their opinions to the working group - yes they have - but only those members of the public who know about the invite. How many members of the public are unaware 1. of the existence of the working group and 2. that the working group would like to know what ideas the public have.
I am only aware of one missive that was sent out on a round robin basis by one of the councillors who is a member of this working group . If there have been more then they haven't dropped into my in box. And for those who did not receive the one missive (or any others,if indeed there were any others) then the only reason you would know about it is because I chose to post its text on here.
I cannot find anything on the town council website about the working group.
And whilst reference to the working group was made in the Gazette this week I did not see anything else about it. Like who sits on it, when it meets, that it would like to hear from members of the public their views for the future of the lawn and how those views could be made known.
A little anecdote - I mentioned this new working party to one of my neighbours - it was the first she had heard of it. I've no intention of telling the rest of my street. But who knows what ideas they might have - if they but knew of the working party and its request for ideas from the Dawlish public (but which the working party will then discuss and debate in secret.)
and another thing. If the Working Party are so keen to hear from members of the Dawlish public why have they not used this site and Eyes of Dawlish (and any other Dawlish based sites that I am unaware of) to let the Dawlish public know of the lawn working party's existence and how to contact it?
If we had councillors on this site 4 years ago discussing lawn related things https://www.dawlish.com/thread/details/33750 then why don't present town councillors get on here now and do the same thing?
This thread has been closed.