General Discussion

I have just done a search using the above wording. If you wish to read on this subject you could do the same search,

Normally I would post all the links on here (as I have done frequenty in the past on other threads). But my computer is 'playing up' and won't let me do that

at the moment. 

As there are quite a few hyperlinks to be found by way of doing a search using the words UK Farming Industry post Brexit I wonder if some kind soul would mind posting them on this thread. The links argue both pro and con .      

I am watching Lynne to see who will do it first.

What issue are you having Lynne? Is it the copying element or the pasting?

So, when I did a search using the words UK Farming Industry post Brexit this is what came up:

If they said that supermarkets could only sell British produce post - Brexit, it might help. I am told (No proof mind you), that ASDA milk is the produce of France. If it is true and they would have to tow the line by only being able to sell British produce, would it create a milk shortage here, or is there a surplus that we know nothing about at the moment. They say if there is no murmor from the farming community, then everything is hunky dorry. I haven't heard a lot of shouting yet, so I take it that things are fine at the moment.

All ASDA own brand milk is from UK farms. It make you wonder who makes up these lies, and why they do it. 

I typed in Where Does Asda Get Its Milk From? and got this 

​All ASDA fresh milk now carrying Arla farmer-owned marque | Arla UK

and this makes for an interesting read

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39030755 

Here is an extract:

"We import more than we export of all types of food. The UK imported a whopping £38.5bn worth of food, feed and drink in 2015, the most recent official statistics available.

The number dwarfs the £18bn worth of food we exported that year. In fact, just half of the food we eat in the UK originates here, with most of the rest imported from Europe.

A recent vegetable shortage, driven by bad weather in southern Europe, highlighted this dependence, and led to a flurry of pictures on social media of empty supermarket shelves.

On top of this, the pound's 14% fall against the euro since the Brexit vote means imports cost more, and there is huge uncertainty over what effect leaving the EU will have on the cost and availability of food from Europe." 

So..........if food imports from EU countries end up costing more (import tariffs) and exports to the EU of food produce by UK farmers end up costing more (export tariffs) then 1) where will we get our food from? and 2) how will all this affect the UK farming industry?

Some answers to (1)

Elsewhere in the world. I have read that because elsewhere in the world doesn't necessarily have such high animal welfare standards as that found within the EU (and presently the UK), food produced elsewhere in the world doesn't cost as much. This could result in lower imported food prices in our shops. 

So an answer to (2) might be that:

Lots of cheaper imported food (of not necessarily such a high production standard - remember cholorine washed chicken from the USA? and the horsemeat in burgers scandal a bit back?) would undercut the prices charged by UK farmers for their UK home grown produce. Our UK produce costs more because animal welfare standards cost money and this cost is passed on to us, the consumer.

So..........if our UK Farmers were to face a double whammy of a) being undercut by cheaper imports and at the same time b)see a drop in demand from the EU countries for their produce because of the extra tariiff costs then............what I don't c) is much of a future for the UK farming industry.   

Anyone any thoughts on that?   

Oh and then of course there is the matter of farming subsidies.

What happens to the UK farming industry if, on top of what I have outlined above, subsidies go or are considerably reduced. 

We should follow New Zealand they cut subsidies overnight and they now have a thriving farming industry, and yes Lynne the snow was amazing.

They may now have a thriving farming industry but that wasn't achived without a lot of bankruptcies along the way.

But are we comparing like (NZ) with like (UK)?

That happened in NZ back in 1984 I believe.  We are talking United Kingdom in 2018.

The UK has a population 14 X greater than NZ.

More information to be found here ahdb.org.uk/brexit/documents/What_can_the_UK_learn_from_New_Zealand_subsidy_reforms.pdf

(the table on the front page is particularly illuminating).      

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/3187928/Milk-imports-surge-as-British-production-drops-to-30-year-low.html

The problem is food is to cheap but thats what the customer demands so the supermarkets demand more for less from the grower. So vast tracks of land are put to more profitable use you just have to look at estates here in Dawlish that produce little or no food but grow pheasants for shoots and crops for cover  and then collect huge amounts in subsidy.

I would agree totally that the way farmers (especially 'farmers') are given subsidies (via CAP) has a lot that I do not agree with. Am I correct in believing that via CAP, farmers and 'farmers' are given subsidies based on the amount of land they have and not on what they produce from it?   Thus very rich landowners get a big top up even if the land they own is not in agricultural use?

So if farming subsidies are to be revised post Brexit the questions to be asked might be along these lines.

1. Should farming in the UK be subsidised at all? If not, how would that impact on the UK farming industry and the UK food supply?

2.Should farming in the UK still be subsidised but based on food production and not on the amount of land owned? And how would that impact on the UK farming industry and the UK food supply?  Might it lead to over production? A lowering of standards in order to produce more?

@majorp - I've just looked up that link that you posted. Is it my eyes or yours? I ask as my eyes tell me it is a 2008 story. 

Lynne  You are correct and that's the problem we have.  Hill farmers producing good quality produce and hardly making a living and large land owners growing nothing but pheasants for their rich mates to shoot and coining it in.  Something has to change.  In my mind, if you own good farming land it's immoral not to be producing food, so should we not be penalising land owners who don't actively produce food?  Just a thought...

So what I await to see is how this Conservative government, that no doubt gets lots of support in all sorts of ways from rich landowners/the land owning aristocracy, how it will take away the subsidies (tax payers' money) from these rich and powerful people.

How will the Tories square that particular circle?

And as for penalising them for not growing food. Well!!!!!!!!!!!!          

@Lynne

"So what I await to see is how this Conservative government, that no doubt gets lots of support in all sorts of ways from rich landowners/the land owning aristocracy, how it will take away the subsidies (tax payers' money) from these rich and powerful people."

And your evidence for this claim is?

You're not seriously suggesting that the rich landowners and land owning aristocracy aren't Tory supporters.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-uk-brexit-farming-subsidies-eu-duke-westminster-a7545601.html

(and no doubt you will dismiss the info in the link about simply and only because it comes from the Independent.) 

and my evidence is ..........my eyes.

I have many a time, over the years, and across the country, seen large 'Vote Tory' posters adorning fields during election times.  

No it is not your eyes Lynne. It was an example to show that we do import milk.

Years on and things have got worse, regarding the loss of dairy farms in the uk, so we import more milk, not a lot but it is more, and I don't think we import milk just to poor down the drain. So I am wondering where does it end up?

We all know how lables can be deceiving. packed in the uk but not sure where it is produced.

So real evidence then, just what you perceive.  

What I perceive is reality enough for me.

If you haven't seen/don't see those posters then all I can suggest is that you take yourself off to your nearest optician.

What you believe to be true might be enough evidence for you, it isn't for me, you'll have to do better than that.

So if that isn't okay for you, do you know what?  

I am not in the least bit bothered. 

(Must go now have The Mail to read. You know the one I feel sure. It's that Tory supporting newspaper whose editor I understand owns quite a few acres up in Scotland..........)  

• The EU is the UK’s most significant trading partner. Although the Government’s intention is to agree a comprehensive free trade agreement and customs agreement with the EU, there is no guarantee that this will occur. In the event that the UK leaves the EU without a free trade agreement, UK-EU trade will proceed under World Trade Organisation (WTO) rules. Reverting to WTO tariffs will have a significant impact upon agriculture as tariffs are higher for agricultural products than for other goods and services.

From:  https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201719/cmselect/cmenvfru/348/34803.htm

"As for Brexit, I can’t understand why 58 per cent of farmers were in favour, because it will bring even more uncertainty. At least the EU provided them with 55 per cent of their income in subsidies –the Government says that subsidies are protected until 2020 – but what happens then? Farmers will be competing with the NHS and education for funding.

As for trade, farmers could be competing with imported food from overseas which is reared in far less stringent conditions and which could undercut home-grown produce. Farmers send 73 per cent of their exports into the EU – what will happen if they face import tariffs of up to 30 per cent? And where will they get the seasonal labour to pick and pack crops like fruit and vegetables?

Farming and food processing are responsible for 13 per cent of our GDP – more than car manufacturing."

From:  http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/nfu-president-new-woman-first-minette-batters-countryside-hunting-farming-agriculture-pheasant-a8225006.html

Has anyone bothered to ask those farmers on the ground, how brexit will affect their operations? Will farming be left to the big super markets. Why are there still many leaving farming now and not waiting to see what happens when we officially leave. questions, questions, questions and no one it appears has the answer to any of it.

Leaving farming for a mo, there is talk about imposing a tarriff on imported cars when we leave. As Exeter is the biggest (Marsh Barton) in Europe where you can buy any make of car of your choice. what would happen if many of those car sales pulled the plug?

@Majop  - why not start a new thread on the subject of how Brexit (whatever form it ends up taking) might impact on the UK car manufacturing/sales and allied industries and those employed in them.

We may not have a lot of car manufacturing in the south west but I for one know people who live in Dawlish who work in car sales at Marsh Barton.        

Just read in the i news paper, that the Americans are trying to get our food standards lowered, so that it will make it easier for the Americans to export a lot of their dairy products to us.

Surely it would be better for all, (including the animal welfare) for the Americans to raise their standards.

Reading the article further, the American lobyist's are claiming that the higher standards that we have in place----------------------------------------------------------Phew! is a form of tarriff.

So tarriff's come in all sorts of way's. That has got to be a new one.