General Discussion
Not an unrelated topic to that of plastic.
Just thought I'd post a few things that I've recently read about UK food consumption and UK food production.
1. Since 1984 UK self sufficiency in indigenous foods has fallen from 96% to 76%
2. Imports of non-indigenous foods have grown so much that half of what is eaten in the UK now comes from abroad.
3. The UK food deficit rose by £800m in the three months to July 2017 to a record £22.4 bn for the year.
And I wonder what happens to a lot of that imported food. Is it wasted because it has gone past it's sell by date after it was purchased by a consumer or is it never sold and had to be thrown away before it reached the shelf in the shop and who pay's for that wastage? The mind boggles.
The topics about food, plastic and M&S are all connected by one common denominator - cost.
People expect to pay next to nothing for food and therefore they get what they deserve. Poorer quality food, excessive packaging and imported indigenous foodstuff.
There’s more than enough farmland in Britain for us to be self-sufficient for generations to come, sadly too many people either won’t or can’t pay the prices that farmers want/need to charge. Milk is a prime example - only a few retailers such as Waitrose pay a decent rate to British farmers.
As usual Diana Mond comes in with only part of a problem. Why are there potato quotas and milk quotas?
In seems to me that we are caught between a rock and a hard place.
Please stop being so aggressive.
Potato and milk quotas have already been covered in a previous thread.
Okay - so......is there any food produce in the UK that is PRESENTLY subject to quotas?
If there are, please post on this thread what they are and give the source(s) of your information.
And here's something else I'll throw into the mix. If the pound falls in value then the price of imports increases. And as we import an awful lot of food I can
only assume that the price of all this imported food will be passed onto the consumer - that's you and me.
and here's some info on UK food waste
1. six. of the 8 billion meals served each year. On average 21% of food waste arises from spoilage; 45 The amount of food that is wasted each year in the UK is equivalent to 1.3 billion meals, or one in %. from food preparation and 34% from consumer plates.
Estimates of Food and Packaging Waste in the UK Grocery ...
www.wrap.org.uk/content/uk-handy-facts-and-figures-retail-sector
2. UK throwing away £13bn of food each year, latest figures ...
www.theguardian.com › Environment › Food waste
That meant the average UK household wasted £470 worth of food, which went in the bin when it could have been eaten. The avoidable food waste generated 19m tonnes of greenhouse gases over its lifetime – and preventing that pollution would be equivalent to taking one in four cars off UK roads, Wrap said.
3. UK tops chart of EU food waste | World news | The Guardian
www.theguardian.com › World › Europe
It reported that an estimated 89m tonnes of food are wasted every year in the EU, which is expected to rise to around 126m tonnes by 2020 if no action is taken, with significant costs to the environment, economy and society.
4. How the UK's household food waste problem is getting worse ...
www.independent.co.uk › News › UK › UK Politics
Statistics from the Waste and Resources Action Programme (WRAP) show household food waste in the UK increased 4.4 per cent between 2012 and 2015, despite a target to cut household waste 5 per cent by 2015. That brings the amount of food sent to landfill in 2015 to 7.3 million tonnes, costing UK …
5. How much food is wasted in the UK? 7.3 million tons thrown ...
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/751977/how-much-food-is-wasted...
Watch video · The total food wasted In 2015 weighed 7.3 million tons. Now campaigners say if that wastage could be prevented it would be the equivalent environmental benefit of ...
6. Why Save Food | Love Food Hate Waste
https://www.lovefoodhatewaste.com/why-save-food
Why Save Food. Your food does its job best when it's on a plate ready to be enjoyed. ... With your help, we can turn the tide on food waste in the UK. Read More.
7. Food waste in the United Kingdom - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_waste_in_the_United_Kingdom
Food waste puts a large burden on the finances of each household and local councils in the UK; wasted food is estimated to cost each British household £250–£400 per year, accumulating to £15,000–£24,000 over a lifetime. This comes from the total purchasing cost of the food …
o History ·
o Sources ·
o Impact ·
o Response
8. Food waste: Britons are worst offenders in Europe | The ...
www.theweek.co.uk/.../food-waste-britons-are-worst-offenders-in-europe
Food waste around the world. As much as half of all food ... A recent study by the UK's Institution of Mechanical ... Food waste: Britons are worst offenders in Europe;
9. UK Handy Waste Facts and Figures | WRAP UK
www.wrap.org.uk/content/uk-handy-waste-facts-and-figures-retail-sector
Handy facts and figures on food surplus and waste in the UK. This includes data on post-farm-gate food surplus and waste from ... and food service waste in the UK.
10. Food waste | Food Standards Agency
https://www.food.gov.uk/news-updates/campaigns/food-waste
In the UK, we throw away 7 million tonnes of food and drink from our homes every year. Small changes will make a big difference, ... Food waste is a global issue.
If the falling value of the pound causes some food prices to increase, buy British instead.
I don't think there are any quotas left that apply to uk farmers at the moment. There are still import tarrif quotas which the brexit negotiators are still grapplying with. That indirectly affects uk farmers.
Farmers are desperately worried about dropping quotas, it did provide some sort of stability, but it still left many farmers struggling and many have since given up. The biggest loosers (So I am told ) are tenant farmers who have to pay a rent to someone before the can look at a profit. As many farms are owned by the likes of Devon County Council, you can see what could be on the horizon.
There are many parcels of land up and down the country that are either owned or contracted out to the big super markets, they can control food prices to some extent to their advantage. I have seen potato crops turned into pig feed, carrots, parsnips and cauliflowers turn in, just to keep a shortage on production. The ministry of food used to pay farmers to destroy crops, now the supermarkets do it for their own benefit.
It is a massive problem and I don't think there is a solution to it. There might be short term solutions but they don't last.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-32136218
I dont understand food waste i waste nothing i make a list of meals breakfast lunch and dinner for seven days i do this every Sunday and i buy whats on the list and every scrap is used. A chicken will be used for roast one day the meat stripped chicken risotto the next day then a chicken and veg soup on day three the only thing left bones. Bread any left thats going to waste freeze it and use it for bread and butter pudding at a later date. A lot of waste is due to portion size reduce the amount on the plate you should be comfortable when you leave the table not stuffed. When i was a kid if i left food on my plate i would get it for the next meal my parents wasted nothing and i learnt simple lessons you dont finish dinner you dont get a pudding and when tea time came round you had to finish what you left at dinner. At School the dinner lady asked you what you wanted if you didnt eat it you would have to sit at the table untill every scrap was eaten and you were told in no uncertain terms your eyes are bigger than your belly now eat it, so you soon learnt there was always a second helping and you didnt have to pile up your plate.
and as a huge % (I've read 80%) of our imported food comes in from the EU any post Brexit delays at customs will have a further impact on our post Brexit food supply.
I wonder how happy the electorate will be if rising prices and food shortages are brought by Brexit.
Lynne we never had all this food when i was a kid and we ate our fill every day we will have to change our attitude to food and you will have to do without the odd ingredient it wont kill you life will go on and folk will get used to it, but of course little will change the Spanish will still sell us oranges and do we need French cheese and wine not really cant stand the stuff. All you need is the basics you will have to bake more and eat things that are in season British farmers are the best in the world and they will step up to the plate and give us plenty of seasonal veg and good riddance to the EU.
You may never have had all this food when you were a kid but plenty of (younger) others have!
You may not like french cheese and wine (and Italian and Spanish as well) a but plenty of (younger) others do!
And we can only hope that all those oranges don't go 'off' whilst waiting in lorries for customs clearance.
And no matter how good British farmers are they cannot provide this country with all the food that it needs.
Lynne i agree british farmers cant supply us with all the fancy food we now have but they can supply more of what they used to produce why do we need strawberries,tomatoes,lettuce,cucumber,etc 12 months of the year, we should be eating what is in season and for one i hope it goes back to that. But as you well know Lynne very little will change after brexit and all this might and that might is just pie in the sky i dont know you dont know i dont think the Prime minister knows what post brexit will look like but one thing is certain whatever it is we will have to live with it and get used to it.
Lynne everything is wheels within wheels for arguments sake VW sold approx 221,000 cars in the UK last year do you honestly believe they would lose those sales over a bag of spuds they have more to lose than us and there are plenty of great Japanese cars out there and those figures dont include Audi and Skoda sales also part of the VW group.
We may not need those fresh food stuffs 12 months a year but it's what we are now used to having. Indeed many in this country have never known any different.
Unlike food, cars don't go 'off' whilst waiting for customs clearance.
If lorries at Customs are piled up at Dover
Then food trucks at Calais can't travel over
(approx 80% of our imported food comes from the EU)
But you dont know what customs will be Lynne nobody does all you want is to stay in the EU well sorry but the people voted LEAVE so get over it the decision is made.
Well, as I see it, we either stay with the customs situation that we presently have with(in) the EU or we don't, and if we don't the above could easily be the result.
All I'm doing is pointing out possible outcomes from the referendum result.
The thing is when we are out we can then make our own rules and we can make it as easy or as hard as we want how i see it little will change.
Well, if we make our own rules such that little changes, what is the point in coming out? To control immigration? The only way we can do that as far as I can tell is by going for a 'hard' brexit.
A rough guide;
Hard Brexit (amongst other things) = UK leaves EU customs union and its full access to the single market. Which would mean a significant increase in bureaucratic checks on goods passing through ports and airports. Tariffs. Delays.
Soft Brexit (amongst other things) = UK stays in EU customs union . Which means that goods would not be subject to hold ups at ports and airports. Goods and services would continue to be traded with the remaining EU countries on a tariff free basis.
No free movement for one and for me thats the only reason i voted to leave. Anyway of on my travels to the snowy north tonight so will have to leave you all to it.
So if you want free movement to the UK to cease then logically you would support a hard Brexit.
Have you started to food hoard yet for when the hard Brexit food shortage/increased cost of food hits these shores?
Enjoy the snow.
Lynne it will not make one jot of difference to me as i eat simple food just as my mother and father did 70 years ago tonight british wild rabbit,, british cabbage, british sweed and carrots,and british potatoes and a nice baked apple from Ashcombe with custard made with local eggs. I dont buy foreign rubbish why would i when there is great british in season food at great prices available and i have eaten this way all my life. I dont drink smoke i am the same weight i was at 20 and have seen a doctor four times since 1985 healthy food healthy living buy BRITISH. And while i am away i will stock up on bacon home cured in Borrowdale from a farm that has cured bacon the same way for a 100 years and its cheaper than supermarket bacon. Keswick market on Saturday a few pounds of Cumberland sausage with real pig intestine again cheaper than a supermarket and its proper food with no additives all British and may i add similar products available here locally good british grub.
Have you got some examples of what you call “foreign rubbish”? I’m sure I can show you 10 examples of great foreign food for every 1 of yours. No wonder the French look at your type and unfairly tar us all as “Les Rosbif!”. Of course there is loads of great British food and cuisine, particularly here in the West Country, but to call all food from elsewhere “rubbish” is ridiculous!
Thanks for that meaningful contribution “Jools”. That said, if you have to use Google Translate for such a simple phrase, then I doubt you’d know much about French culture/cuisine.
If the demand for British produce increases then the cost of it will also increase.
The economic law of supply and demand will see to that.
And on that subject, I've just had a thought (as I do on the odd occasion or so 
), if overseas food stuffs get more expensive and a consequent demand for home grown produce leads to an increase in their prices as well, then perhaps we'll have rationing introduced just like there was back in WWII.
I feel a satirical skit coming on.
And how about more orangeries and hot houses or whatever it is that would be needed so that we can grow our own oranges, lemons, limes, grapefruits, melons, avocados, bananas and the like.
Well if they bring rationing back at least it would solve the obesity problem!
Leatash’s post on 13 January at 12.30 reminded me of an incident during my first week at school. One day suet beef pudding was served, I told the dinner lady I didn’t like it and I didn’t want any but she said I had to have protein and put a huge chunk of it on my plate. As it was on my plate the dinner ladies said I had to eat it, I did try to explain that I didn’t like it but they insisted I eat it. Eventually, because the bell had rung and everyone was going into class I ate it. I then went back to my class, sat round the hexagonal table with a few other children and promptly vomited all over their exercise books! I have some sort of allergy to suet and it’s makes me vomit! The teacher then slapped my legs hard for vomiting over the exercise books! Mind you, that dinner lady never did force me to eat something I didn’t’t like again!
Today I read an article written by someone who until recently worked in a very senior role in the Department for Exiting the EU.
The author writes candidly (and, given his background, informatively) about the impact on the UK should we leave the EU with no deal.
Here is an extract:
"Thousands of new customs officers will have to be hired and trained, for instance, if goods which currently move freely are to be checked. Some 130,000 British businesss will have to make customs declarations for the first time - something the Port of Dover has suggested could result in 17 mile tailbacks. Supermarkets have predicted food shortages and a 22% tariff on food imported from the EU".
The Single Market didn't come into being until 1993, until then businesses had to make customs declarations, it was an accepted part of doing trade. I have lost count of the number of Certificates of Origin I've completed in my time, it's no big deal. We still do these customs procedures for the rest of the world, and they number far more than EU27. Listening to the doom-mongers you'd think we barely existed before joining the EU.
Here's some more from the article:
"The Confederation of British Industry has estimated that 90% of EU goods exports, by value, would face tariffs. WTO (World Trade Organsation) terms would mean an average tariff of 4.3%, or a total increase in costs of exports to the EU of up to £6bn."
It sounds like this ex-exployee of DExEU has agenda, care to post a link to the whole article so we can judge it for ourselves? Some of it is complete nonsense, such as the supermarkets warning of a 22% tariff on foods, trade negotiations are still in progress, are the supermarkets privy to these and know something we do not? I hardly think so. As for the wider picture, WTO tariffs work both ways, and we import a lot more from the EU than we export, so in any tariff war we would be the winners.
So we import a lot of stuff (like 80% of our imported food) from the EU. So tariffs on this food would presumably make it more expensive for us to buy in our shops.
More from the same article:
" If we unilaterally dropped tariffs to zero, in the expectation that the EU would have to follow suit, we would have to do the same for all trade agreements anywhere in the world, something that would devastate agriculture and manufacturing industries".
Let's open up negotiations on that. Do a trade perhaps.
What are your thoughts on the impact of food prices in the UK should we end up with a No Deal Brexit scenario.
It is normal practice when quoting text that the source is also included. I suspect the author is a rabid Remoaner, hence your reticence to post the link.
A no-deal Brexit might not be as bad some fear, this article from the Institute of Economic Affairs reveals how the Common Agricultural Policy actually raises the cost of food by some 17%, compared to world market prices:
Imagine there was a Food Tax which had the effect of raising food prices by, say, 17% on average. The tax revenue was collected centrally, and then disbursed to agricultural producers. That tax would be incredibly unpopular, especially in times of rising food prices. The Food Tax would be too obviously recognisable as an instrument of redistributing money from sales assistants and cleaners to wealthy landowners.
The Food Tax is no fiction, of course. Ultimately, the Common Agricultural Policy (CAP) has precisely that effect.
https://iea.org.uk/blog/abolish-the-cap-let-food-prices-tumble
It's fairly easy to Google these days.
https://inews.co.uk/opinion/james-chapman-take-no-deal-brexit-off-table/
Author: James Chapman
James Chapman is former director of communications at HM Treasury and chief of staff at the Department for Exiting the EU. Prior to that he was political editor of the Daily Mail
(*shudder*)
If somebody is posting quotes they should not expect others to have to use Google to find the source.
Edit:
It's rather ironic that a former political editor of the Daily Mail is writing for the i. I realise it is no longer owned by The Independent, but it is staffed by former Indy journalists and has a clear anti-Brexit agenda. No wonder it has been quoted so much earlier in this thread.
If some people can't afford to eat because of rising prices, it could be a good thing all round. I understand the NHS is under exreme pressure from those that carry too much weight.
Increase the prices of bad foods and lower the price of good foods.
Now I don't know good from bad so don't anyone dare ask me what they are.
There are however healthy foods and unheathy foods as there are with safe foods and unsate foods, and I have no idea what they are either.
@flo - Quite!
@majorp - If people can't afford to eat because of rising prices then they will eat what they can afford. Which is what is already happening. Lots of processed foods with added sugars,hydrogenated fats and salt.
@burneside - Perhaps the author has seen the light 
. And the i does not have a clear anti Brexit agenda - it has contributions and readers from and on both sides of the Brexit debate.
and from what I have read (courtesy of Google) the NFU is expressing concern about post Brexit trade deals and how such deals could threaten the UK farming industry.
Put a tax on the processed foods then, like they are thinking of doing on plastic bottles and the like.
What is the saying "???????? there's a way".
There has got to be a way to get people to change their eating habits to achieve a more healthier life style.
Nothing to say about the Common Agricultural Policy adding 17% to the cost of food in the EU?
What deals are the NFU talking about? Must be like the supermarkets, they know things that we do not, apparently...
Brexit is a chance to slash food prices while freeing our farmers from the subsidy straitjacket
Telegraph
If we actually knew what those post-Brexit deals are then I might have something to say, but as we don't, I cannot possibly comment, can I?
Courtesy of Google, I have just read that article. Sorry can't post link to it (or to anything else for that matter) as for past few days I have been unable to copy and paste anything onto this website.
So can only say that having read the article , it emphasises again to me, that the British UK farming industry could be under threat in post Brexit Britain.
Farmers of the UK arise! You have nothing to lose but your livelihoods.
I wonder how Welsh lamb and Cumbrian lamb farmers will respond to large imports of cheaper NZ lamb. (and what is better for the planet? to eat food grown at, or very near to, home, or to eat food flown in from the other side of the world?).
@burneside - no of course we don't know what the post brexit deals will be, but that shouldn't stop any of us being aware of the pros and cons before agreements get made.
@burneside in that case ("without details I can't comment") I can only assume that we will hear no more from you for sometime.
Toodle pip.
If it is beyond your wit to post links to stories to support your assertions (which I did quite easily earlier today), then there is nothing for me on which to comment.
So if you can't/won't comment on anything I assert unless I post links then there is an obvious way for me to stop you responding.. Thanks for letting me know.
Toodle loo.
But they are not wholly your assertions are they, they're other people's that you selectively quote, or even only just give the gist. It's standard practice with online forums that when you quote text you then also provide a link to the whole piece. What's so hard to understand about that?
Don't you have the wit (your phrase not mine) to use the quotes that I used to do a search via Google then? @flo was able to do so. Indeed @flo very kindly posted the link.
As I keep telling you (and any others who may still be reading this thread) for reasons that I have yet to get sorted out, for some reason or another I can no longer paste anything onto this website.
What's so hard to understand about that?
PS If you've any thoughts about how Brexit might impact on the British farming industry you may have noticed I've started a new thread on that very subject. In fact, could you do us all a favour? Could you google the wording that I've given and then post all the hyper links on that new thread.
Ta ever so.
Some things I read in a national newspaper yesterday.
Only 23% of the fruit and veg we consume is grown in the UK
90% of all Britain's food imports come from 24 countries. Most are in the EU.
Why Brexit could lead to a poorer diet - The i newspaper online iNews
The UK has the unhealthiest diet because folk choose to eat the way they do, just go to Mcdonalds and watch the mothers arriving with there kids straight from school to give them there dinner folk dont know how to cook anymore. All this talk is nonsence anyway nobody as i have already said know's what the outcome will be, me i would get tough and tell the EU to stuff there negotiations were the sun dont shine.
And Diana Mond i have travelled France East to West North to South and my impression of the French they are rude the worst drivers in Europe and they could do with using the shower a little more often and the food it's nowt to shout home about.
And plus when making a complaint in a so called top French restaurant in the Dordogne about dogs sitting on tables i was told in no uncertain terms if i didnt like it i could leave and in no uncertain terms i told them what a filthy dirty country they lived in, and they call us uncivilised.
What is deemed to be dirty and what is not varies from culture to culture.
We have dogs in our houses and treat them like members of the family., Some people not only let them on their furniture but also on their beds. Other cultures don't see dogs as pets (but as food) and others see them as being dirty creatures that should not be allowed anywhere near the inside of a home.
Cows are sacred animals in India.
We have a habit in this country of wearing our outside shoes in our homes. How dirty is that? Other cultures take off their outside shoes before entering a home.