Dawlish Discussion

for info

it looks like the system for UK passport holders travelling to EU/Schengen countries https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/schengen-visa-countries-list/

 after we leave the EU  may be something along the lines of the system presently operating to travel to the likes of the US.

We will need to pay for a visa of some kind online (for the US it's the ESTA scheme) and we will then be subject to more checks at passport/immigration control. (And just because the online paperwork has been granted it does not necessarily follow that you are guaranteed entry). From personal experience of entering the US I know that questions asked by the border guards of each traveller were along the lines of: how long we were going to be in the country, where we were staying, for how long, where in the country we would be travelling, when would we be leaving etc. Similar questioning took place by Canadian border officials when travelling from the US to Canada.   

http://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/etias-brexit-schengen-area-british-passports-online-visa-a7879876.html

Sounds good to me i remember the days when if you drove across Europe you your passengers the car all checked at every border and thats how it should be free movement will be Europes downfall.

more info here

http://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/etias-europe-schengen-passports-permits-holidaymakers-a7877776.html

So this proposal, if enacted, will require travellers visiting a Schengen-area country to answer a few question and obtain a permit costing €5 which will be valid for three years.  That doesn't sound too onerous, and as long as it is a two-way process it will help to prevent undesirables entering the UK.  The US has long taken a stringent approach in allowing people to enter the country, nobody seems to complain about that.

The point is that how us UK non EU citizens (unless you're Northern Irish of course - see separate thread) enter the EU countries (border with the Republic of Ireland anyone?) will not be as so many, many, people in this country will have gotten used to over the years.

From what i understand there will be no border as is now with Southern Ireland i imagine there will be very strict controls at ports of entry on the Uk mainland. So if thats the case ferry to Belfast drive south and enjoy your holliday.  The authorities in Southern Ireland may have to have stricter controls at their ports of entry Cork and Dunleary for those entering from the UK passport and visa. So again if thats the case i will when going to Southern Ireland go to Belfast and drive south no passport no visa at the moment i go to Dunleary no passport no visa.

So change happens all the time, get used to it.  

@leatash - so.........EU citizens from other EU countries have free movement, even with passport checks, into the RoI.  They can then travel north (no border) into the UK (Northern Ireland).  As long as there is a bilateral freedom of movement agreement between the UK and the RoI * then why should there be any need for strict controls at ports of entry into the other UK countries for those arriving from the island of Ireland?

* see my post below for more info on this.

@Burnside - change is precisely what I am trying to flag up to people - espeically those in the habit of going to EU countries for their annual 10 days or so in the sun.   

The Common Travel Area (CTA; Irish: Comhlimistéar Taistil) is an open borders area comprising theUnited Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, Ireland, the Isle of Man, and the Channel Islands. 

Isle of Man

There are no routine immigration checks on travellers arriving in the Isle of Man from another part of the CTA.[44] As there are currently no scheduled air or ferry services between the Isle of Man and outside the CTA, there are, in effect, no immigration checks in place.[

The Isle of Man is considered a part of the UK for customs purposes, and so there are no routine customs checks on travellers arriving from the UK.[

United Kingdom

The UK Border Force does not carry out routine immigration checks on travellers (regardless of nationality) arriving in the UK from another part of the CTA However, because the Channel Islands have VAT free status, the UK carries out selective customs checks on travellers arriving from there.

Lynne its of no importance its going to change thank god and the sooner the better it will just be like flying to countries outside the EU there will be passport and visa checks and it wont put folk off taking there two weeks in the sun.

Au Contraire - This whole thing is of great importance.

Do you  have any comments re the Irish/UK situation?

More on the EU/RoI/UK border conundrum here

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/eu-migrants-brexit-ireland-border_uk_5994240ce4b0e789a948370a

Lynne its not important why because nobody knows the outcome of brexit its never been done before no one expected it and no one has written a set of rules there is no brexit manual its just going to be made up as it goes along.  We will get what we get and it will be refined once we are out of the EU and can once again do as we please without bowing to Brussels we will be able to set our own rules.  My thoughts on Ireland well its always been a problem so why not cut it loose it should be one country and in essence it is ,so why not let Dublin have it all and save us a problem.

A united Ireland = Part 1 of the break up of the United Kingdom.

Scotland to then break away from the rUK? (or, even, perhaps, to break away before Ireland unites as one country?).

Then England and Wales will have a border issue with Scotland. And so it goes on and on.

Meanwhile, and back to the present, there is still the EU/RoI/NI/UK border issue to resolve. Which is very important

I don't see the problem Lynne, are you miffed because you lost the vote or that its going to cost you a few extra quid to get a visa?  All that interests me is immigration and a closed border.  No free movement will satisfy me.  I voted leave, why? because no government has ever been able to control immigration because of free movement.   Solution, leave the EU plain and simple that's it.  I don't care about anything else.  Now will it happen?  I doubt it, I don't think we will leave.  The reason?  It's too complex and as I have already said there's no manual, no one has a clue what's going to happen so there is no argument one way or the other.  Your fears are supposition, there's no real fact to any of it.  It's "a maybe", it's "a possibility" no one knows, so wait and see, we may all be pleasantly surprised.

You were the one who brought up the possible future (re)unification of Ireland - not me.

There is a whole can of worms regarding the land border with Ireland. That can of worms I have explained above but here it is again : 

In a nutshell we are presently in a situation whereby the British government is pursuing change (leaving the EU) with wanting to keep some things the same (open border with, and across, the island of Ireland.) 

It is how that particular circle can be squared which is the crux of the matter. (If it can be squared of course).

With regard to having to pay to enter EU countries. No big deal (not for me anyway). I also don't travel during the school summer holidays. However, for those that do travel then,  who have no option but to travel then, they should be aware that in future it will take longer to get through passport control as each person is likely to be interrogated as to where they will be staying, for how long, when leaving etc.

Remember the queues a few weeks back due to extra checks on Brits going into and out of Schengen area countries? And at the moment we are still in the EU. 

Thank you for discussing this matter with me. The whole point of my posting what I do is to get information 'out there'.

Is interrogation not a good thing?  Every country should know who is entering, who is leaving, you just can't walk into Australia and that's the system.  We need to adopt a tough no nonsense immigration policy.  It is very likely that an IS fighter with an automatic weapon will create havoc on a Spanish beach in the near future, then folk will be screaming for tougher border controls and it will happen.  Lynne, your postings are always of great interest and it's rare for me to take umbridge with anything you post, but border controls and free movement is my pet hate so my apologies if i have spoken out of turn.

But the point is that with the free movement agreement between the RoI and the UK, the UK will not necessarily know who has entered the UK and who has left it. We may know, courtesy of the Irish border authorities, who has entered the Republic via their official passport controls,  but how will we know whether or not those people have consequently travelled into the UK?  

And remember that a lot of IS fighters are home grown.  So if, heaven forbid, what you describe above should happen, what good would passport controls have been if the offender(s) turned out to be Spanish nationals?