General Discussion

There is also an article in the Gazette (see bottom page 6) about the the above.

The article omits to mention that as well as the 1995 Pensions Act the Conservative/Lib Dem

coalition government also passed a Pensions Act in 2011 that speeded up this process even more.

I remember writing letters to the press about it at the time and also contacting every woman I knew who would be caught up in it to alert them to the changes and to ask them to tell others.

I suspect I started a thread on here about it as well. 

It seems however that some are still unaware of the increase in the age for when women will reach their state pension age. 

I hope the table below will help. The first column shows date of birth the second when women with those dates of birth will reach their state pension age.

Please can you draw the attention of women in their early 60s to this information.

Ta.

Note that a woman born on 6th April 1953 reached her state pension age when she was 63 years and 3 months old. Whereas the woman born but only 12 months later on 6th April 1954, does not reach her state pension age until she is 65 and 7 months old.   

And some of us will be 66 years old before we get our state pension. A radical change brought in by the coalition of the scumbag Cons and the waste of space Lib Dems! 

Well it is just how it has to be. People are living longer and for a huge number they are starting work later due to staying on in education. So probably the number of years actually in work is similar to years ago.  And it was in the press so much I can't believe anyone was completely unaware of it. 

Also for years there has been the demand for equality - well now we have it. Men and women have their pension ages the same.  I know the process of parity was sped up, that's what living beyond our means during the Blair years and a worldwide recession did for us. 

And yes it is a pain in the butt for women caught up in the changes, but it was always going to hit someone. And before anyone shouts foul at me having my say on this I will state that I am female; when I started work I was told I would retire at 60, but it has now shifted to 68. So it has affected me but I also realise how lucky I am to have lived in the era I have, with the health and work opportunities I've had, the ability to get onto the housing ladder before it went totally bonkers etc. In the grand scheme of things, with how pensioners were in years gone by, waiting a few more years is just something we have to live with to live with what the country can afford. 

Remember this DJ - if you are due to retire at 68 that figure could be altered in an upwardly projection yet. And at very short notice. That is what happened to 1953 and 1954 born women courtesy of the 2011 Pension Act.

And from what I can gather the age 68 figure is presently due to start on 6/4/2046 (yes, 2046!). .

So...... if you're that young you've plenty of time to prepare for a State Pension Age of 68.

Just be prepared for the goal posts (your State Pension Age) to get shifted anytime between now and then.

Click on this link and then scroll right to the bottom for table 5.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/310231/spa-timetable.pdf

and on the matter of equality in the workplace and related matters please do not think that because things have

improved that therefore: 1) women have achieved equality (we haven't), and that 2) that women's lives back in the 1970s were as they can be now.

Compared to women of other generations: the policy was implemented against a background of inequality for this decade of women.  “Today’s women may be adopting similar working patterns to men, but back in 1970, most women’s lives were a patchwork of working sometimes, caring sometimes and often doing both.  The targeted women grew up in a time of inequality with none of the workplace advantages young women have today”.

http://www.fawcettsociety.org.uk/blog/the-gender-pension-gap/

from: http://data.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/committeeevidence.svc/evidencedocument/work-and-pensions-committee/understanding-the-new-state-pension/written/25211.html 

and

  “The fact is women of our generation didn’t work the way women do now. They may not have worked at all, or they may have worked part-time or in between raising their children or looking after elderly parents. “In that way, women didn’t have the same opportunity to build up an occupational pension. “So 1950s women think this is unfair. It’s terrible as many are now struggling and physically tired.”

Read more at: http://www.falkirkherald.co.uk/news/pension-change-with-sting-in-its-tail-for-women-1-4164711

I have inserted a link below that goes into great detail over mortality in male/females in England and Wales. It gives an incite into the dilema the 'governement' has about finding the money to pay future pensions. An interesting read, if you have the time.

http://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/articles/mortalityinenglandandwales/2012-12-17

and on the issue of part-time workers and pension schemes I've just remembered this.

That many occupational pension schemes back in the 1970s did not allow part-time workers to be members

and which of the two genders mostly worked (still work) part-time?

I don't think this discrimination got altered until sometime in the mid 1980s (via European Court I think).

Certainly when my mum retired at the age of 60 back in the late 1980s although she had gone out to work

part-time for years she only had her state pension. And she only had her state pension because, being a part-time worker,

she had not been allowed to join any occupational pension schemes.   

Lynne is correct and has identified the reasons why the changes are inherently unfair, particularly the speeding up of the process. The vast majority of women caught up in this either worked part time, or not at all for periods, whilst they brought up children so did not build up an occupational pension in the same way a man did, but there is no recognition of this by the government. 

Oh thanks for the link to that table of birth dates and retirement age Lynne.  I've just check and I'm actually a year better off that I thought I was.  So it is 67 for me now, not 68.  But you are also quite right, Lynne that this might be changed again.  As it may well be for men too - after all their retirement age has also been pushed back beyond 65.  By the time I retire, men and women retiring at the same time will be normal.

This link gives more information about local activity concerning this issue.

http://waspi.co.uk/devon/

If you scroll to the bottom of the page there is a contact email address.  

Thanks Lynne, have been researching WASPI and have now contacted them. 

http://www.moneyobserver.com/news/19-08-2016/how-waspi-debacle-could-have-been-avoided

There is a WASPI day of action on Friday 16th Deptember. Devon WASPI are meeting in Plymouth at Noon and 3pm in Exeter, Princesshay near NEXT. Guest speakers have been invited. 

An extract  from the link I posted earlier this morning:

'The coalition agreement promised that it would not do anything to change women's state pension age before 2020. That was a commitment in the coalition agreement, but within months, both Steve Webb and Iain Duncan Smith were proposing changing women's state pension age for 2016.'

Altmann says she explained to them in 2011 why older women have been disadvantaged in pensions throughout their life and don't have such good private pensions or state pensions, and therefore why such a move would be unfair.

'These women were often locked out of pension schemes when they started work, and forced to leave them if they had children or got married. Anyone who worked part-time was not necessarily included,' she explains.

'What made it worse was that all the ministers that I was dealing with were men. There were no women, and the men just didn't seem to appreciate the way these women's lives had gone.'

Awareness raising/leafletting event - Thursday 29th September - 10am -2pm outside Morrison's supermarket, T'mouth

Please read this article  http://devonshiremagazine.co.uk/the-great-state-pension-robbery-waspi/

This is the wording of a motion that will be debated by the full council meeting of TDC on Monday 26th September.

The following notice of motion has been submitted by Councillor Dewhirst and supported by Councillors Brodie, Connett, Nutley, Parker and Pilkington.

"This Council calls upon the Government to make fair transitional state pension arrangements for all women born on or after 6th April 1951, who have unfairly borne the burden of the increase to the State Pension Age (SPA) with lack of appropriate notification.   Hundreds of thousands of women had significant pension changes imposed on them by the Pensions Acts of 1995 and 2011 with little or no personal notification of the changes.   Some women had only two years notice of a six-year increase to their state pension age.   Many women born in the 1950's are living in hardship.   Retirement plans have been shattered with devastating consequences.   Many of these women are already out of the labour market, caring for elderly relatives, providing childcare for grandchildren, or suffer discrimination in the workplace so struggle to find employment.   Women born in this decade are suffering financially.   These women have worked hard, raised families and paid their tax and national insurance with the expectation that they would be financially secure when reaching 60.   It is not the pension age itself that is in dispute - it is widely accepted that women and men should retire at the same time.   The issue is that the rise in the women's state pension age has been too rapid and has happened without sufficient notice being given to the women affected, leaving women with no time to make alternative arrangements.
 

The Council calls upon the Government to reconsider transitional arrangements for women born on or after 6th April 1951, so that women do not live in hardship due to pension changes they were not told about until it was too late to make alternative arrangements."  

• Minister: no money for women who lost out on state ...

  www.telegraph.co.uk/pensions-retirement/financial-planning/...

  In his first interview since his appointment at the Department for Work and Pensions,Richard Harrington ... The pension minister's other problems. Richard Harrington ...

   

• Pensions minister rules out support for women hit by SPA ...

  citywire.co.uk/new-model-adviser/news/pensions-minister-rules-out...

  Pensions minister Richard Harrington has ruled out offering any extra support to women hit by state pension age (SPA) rises. In an interview with the Daily Telegraph ...

   

• Waspi demands will not be met, Pensions Minister warns

• www.pensionsage.com/pa/...will-not-be-met-Pensions-Minister-warns.php

  ... Pensions Minister Richard Harrington has said. Speaking to the Daily Telegraph,Harrington said the ... Changes were made to women’s state pension age in 1995 ...

Let's hope he has to eat his words! WASPI is growing rapidly and now has a huge membership. If you are a woman born in the 50s and don't already belong then please join us now. Log into the WASPI website to find out what is going on and future plans. 

I have just e-mailed all 5 Dawlish councillors on TDC asking them to support the motion.

As I also understand that the motion is likely to be an agenda item at Devon County Council in the very near future I have also e-mailed our county councillor asking him for his support.

If anyone fancies doing similar emails here are the councillors e-mail addresses.

Teignbridge District councillors representing Dawlish

Humphrey.Clemens@teignbridge.gov.uk

Edward.Hockin@teignbridge.gov.uk

Graham.Price@teignbridge.gov.uk

Rosalind.Prowse@teignbridge.gov.uk

Lisa.Mayne@teignbridge.gov.uk

Devon County Councillor for Dawlish

John.clatworthy@devon.gov.uk

http://www.torquayheraldexpress.co.uk/south-devon-will-suffer-if-unfair-pension-delays-are-not-changed-women-warn/story-29725181-detail/story.html

The motion was passed with no absentions and no votes against.

For some reason it kept being referred to as a non-political issue (please don't ask me, I am as flummoxed about that terminology as I suspect some of you might be.)

It was agreed that  a letter be sent to the all party group of MPs who are pursuing this matter in parliament.

The letter to be copied to our MP.

I shall now be writing to her to ask her to lend her support (if she isn't already) to getting this mess rectified.

Our MP's email address is: annemarie@annemariemorris.co.uk

or why not pay her a visit at her next surgery in Dawlish being held on

7th October 2016 11:00 -12;00

Manor House, Old Town Street, Dawlish  

Surgery @ Dawlish Manor House

and from the official WASPI website there is this suggestion.

• when you found out about your pension age rise
• by how many years your state pension age has risen 
• how much you stand to lose as a result of the 1995 and 2011 act
• a short summary of your situation

I believe when a u.k. prime minister leaves office they also get an immediate pensions pay out - currently around 64K, nice.

If politicians had to experience the fall out of many of their ill thought out decisions that affect the common person they would certainly be more careful. They don't so they  wont, that's why many, but not all become politicians I expect.

http://www.torquayheraldexpress.co.uk/unanimous-backing-from-teignbridge-council-for-the-campaign-for-state-pension-equality-for-women/story-29751933-detail/story.html

this is a comment that has been posted at the bottom of the article;

"Equal pay legislation is about men and women being paid the same amount for the same job and has nothing to do with the gender pay gap which, even now, is at 33% for working mothers. Women born in the 1950s did not make "lifestyle choices"; many had no choice but to work, despite the paucity of childcare available when their children were small. Couples - women seldom decided unilaterally to work - made the sensible decision for the lower-earning partner to work part-time or to stay home, thus perpetuating the disadvantage that women experienced. Given the opportunity, many women would have liked to build up a decent pension pot; however, for decades, women - widows - have been condemned to live on pensions far lower than men's. I don't think many of them would feel that that's a great advantage. Unfortunately, under the guise of pension reform, successive Conservative and Coalition Governments have been doing their best to ensure that this situation continues. Even under the much-trumpeted new state pension - which the Government says will be so much better for women - far fewer women than men will qualify for the full amount, a state of affairs that is projected to continue until at least 2050."
 

In other words, by putting the horse (legislating for equal state pension ages for both men and women) before the cart (ensuring that both men and women had/have equal opportunity to build up a pension pot) means that lack of gender equality when it comes to pension provision has been exacerbated.

I meant, of course, cart before the horse.

Happy 60th Birthday Prime Minister. 

This issue was featured in this morning's edition of Rip Off Britain (9.15 am Tuesday 11th October. BBC)

It starts about 5 mins into the programme.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b07z7hrn/rip-off-britain-2016-live-episode-2

Legal action now being undertaken.

http://www.waspi.co.uk/legal-action

And click on this link if you would like to donate towards the legal costs

https://www.crowdjustice.org/case/waspi/

and watch this podcast from Conservative MP Tim Loughton if you want to know why you should support the campaign

https://www.timloughton.com/news/update-waspi-campaign

Update about the fund raising:

Today (6th November 2016) women born 6th May 1953 - 5th June 1953 will reach their state pension age.

Compare that to the case of women born but only twelve months later, between 6th May 1954 and 5th June 1954, who will not become eligible for their state pension until 6th January 2020.

DAWLISH POSTER PARTY PAINT THE TOWN PURPLE - 2ND DECEMBER 2016

check out page 2 of today's Dawlish Gazette

see Viewpoint in today's Dawlish Gazette.

I think the lesson to be learnt from this sorry saga is that people (especially those, say, presently aged 40+) need to keep an eye on what is happening NOW re their FUTURE state pension age.  

I've picked on age 40 as I was 41 when the government of the time first raised my state pension age from 60 to 63 years and 10 months. It then raised it again to age 65 and three months when I was aged 58. So, roughly 6 years before I was due to reach my state pension age (1995 state pension act) I had another 18 months added on (courtesy of the 2011 pensions act.)

Remember that the government did not start to issue letters to the women affected by the 1995 Pensions Act until 2009!

So if they didn't tell those affected by the changes back in 1995 when the legislation was passed, why should they notify younger people who have been affected by subsequent changes or who will be affected by subsequent changes?  

I have written the above because there was another pensions act passed in 2014. Amongst other things it legislated for was a regular review of the state pension age. The first review is due to take place in 2017.  

I think a lot of people aged 40 and below simply assume there will not be a state pension if or when they retire.  I know that's what I believe.

Thank you Lynne for helping raise awareness of this very important issue.

As you point out, women born after 5th April 1950 will be affected by the changes to their Government Pension age, due to the impact of the 1995 Pensions Act, in which a schedule to increase the retirement age for women from 60 to 65 was enacted.

Those women born after 6th April 1953 however, are (and will be) feeling the effect of the changes more acutely as they are also affected by the more recent changes in the 2011 Pensions Act. This act condensed the timeframe for which retirement age had been due to rise from 63 to 65 years of age in the 1995 act; from a period of 24 months, to one of just 8 months.

At the same time, the 2011 act set a timeframe for an increase in the pension age from 65 to 66 years of age for women and men.

According to the gov.uk website, the Government is not planning to revise further the timetables for the equalisation of State Pension age to 65, or the rise in the State Pension age to 66 or 67 (per the 2014 Pensions Act). However as you point out, the timetable for the increase in the State Pension age from 67 to 68 could change as a result of a future review.

www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/310231/spa-timetable.pdf

For ready reference and for context, below is a condensed extract from the gov.uk data, covering the period to the State Pension age of 67:

Table 1: Women’s State Pension age under the Pensions Act 1995

Table 2: Women’s State Pension age under the Pensions Act 2011

Table 3: Increase in State Pension age from 65 to 66 under the Pensions Act 2011, for men and women

Table 4: Increase in State Pension age from 66 to 67, under the Pensions Acts 2007 / 2014, for men and women

More on a following posting...

So the writing is on the wall: we will all now have to work longer to pay for a government pension in retirement, which (on the law of averages) will be longer than our forebears.

Bearing that in mind, I would recommend to everyone who has yet to receive the govenment pension to double-check their date of retirement and what to expect from the new State Pension using the website below (click through 'More' under 'State Pension', then 'Check your State Pension', then 'Start Now' to take you to the sign in options field):

www.gov.uk/eligbility

Commonly referred to as the 'flat rate' pension, as many  who have checked up on their eligibility will know, this is a unfortunate misnomer. 

Changes in pension rules in 2014, the years of contracting out of State Earnings Related Pension (SERPs) and the yo-yoing of National Insurance Contributions (NICs) qualification, will all have had a bearing on any projected final sum. The good news for some is that there may be time to close the gap between a current projected government pension and a potentially larger pension (up to the 'full level' of  £155.65) by making further NICs.

Some links concerning the new state pension which came into effect for those reaching their state pension age on or after 6.4.16

• What the new State Pension means for you | Age UK

  www.ageuk.org.uk/money-matters/pensions/what-the-new-state-pension...

  If you reached State Pension age before 6 April 2016, ... age may not be aware that they could receive more or less than the full rate due to contributions made ...

   

• New 'flat-rate' state pension: how much will you get ...

  www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/pensions/11067567/New...

  New 'flat-rate' state pension: ... The new pension will take effect on April 6 2016, ... Less than half of workers will get full 'flat rate' state pension.

   

• The flat rate state pension: FAQ | money.co.uk

  www.money.co.uk/guides/the-flat-rate-state-pension-faq.htm

  Plans for the new flat rate state pension have now been set ... The flat rate state pension: FAQ; ... The new flat rate pension will rise in line with average ...

   

• How much state pension will I get? - Which?

  www.which.co.uk/money/pensions-and-retirement/state-pension/guides/...

  How much state pension will I get if I qualified on or after 6 April 2016? If you reach state pension age ... state pension before the flat-rate pension started ...

   

• Flat-rate state pension: check whether you ... - This is Money

  www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/pensions/article-2360205

  ... The government's flat-rate pension reforms will see ... The second part of the reforms will scrap the state second pension from 2016. ... This is Money is ...

   

• Why millions WON'T get the £155 new state pension they're ...

  www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/pensions/article-2634215

  ... Why millions WON'T get the £155 new state pension ... on the full flat-rate state pensionof £155 ... in April 2016. Just like the current pension, ...

   

• State pension: 'Only 45%' to get full new payout - BBC News

  www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-30777166

  ... flat-rate state pension in the first five years of the system, government figures show. ... This only applies to new retirees from April 2016, ...

   

• Less than half of workers will get full 'flat rate' state ...

  www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/pensions/11338434/Less...

  Less than half of workers will get full 'flat rate' state pension ... Fewer than half the people who retire under the new state pension due in 2016 will ...

   

Oh and just to add salt to the wound, the person who was pensions minister during the coalition government when the extra time was added onto the state pension age of women born 1953/1954, and the same person who introduced the flat rate pension (which isn't flat rate at all - see above) was awarded a knighthood in the New Year's Honours List.

Arise Sir Steve Webb - ex Lib Dem MP and Pensions Minister 2010-2015.

Why am I anot surprised! Lib Dems.................!! 

And this is what our Conservative MP thinks (about the raising of the state pension age)

https://www.annemariemorris.co.uk/womens-state-pensions

I could add the same comment as above! She fails to mention the thousands of women who will NOT get a state pension because of the changes to NI contributions. But, as all MPs get a gold plated pension for just being an MP, even for a short time, they are not bothered as it does not and never will affect them. The state pension will be a tiny bit of pin money on top of their gold plated MP pension! 

There is no mention of the plight of WASPI women in the 2017 Conservative Party manifesto and I can't find anything in the Lib Dem manifesto either. 

The Green Party talks of redressing pension injustice but does not elaborate what is meant by that.

But the Labour Party manifesto does address the issue (from page 54)

Women born 6th July 1953- 5th August 1953 will become eligible for their state pension next month on 6th July.

This means that wef July the state pension age for women will be 64 years.

But this age will rise again wef 6th November 2017.