General Discussion
ssssnnnnnnnnoooooooooooooooorrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
Perhaps we should all give up trying to have sensible discussions on this thread, move on and leave Lynne & Gary to it.
So, "ssssnnnnnnnnnooooooooooooooooorrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee"
is a sensible contribution?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36712550
I only post this because right at the end is this
The head of the liberal group in the parliament, former Belgian Prime Minister Guy Verhofstadt, lambasted the European Council, the forum where EU governments decide policy.
He said the Council's reaction to Brexit was "we shouldn't change anything, just implement existing European policies". "I find this shocking and irresponsible," he said angrily.
There had been warning signs for the EU from previous referendums in Denmark and the Netherlands, he said.
"What are you waiting for? When will the Council recognise that this type of EU - you cannot defend it any more. Europe needs to be reformed... European citizens are not against Europe, they're against this Europe."
@Dil this 'sensible' enough for you?
"the terms of Brexit will be shot through with competing political and social class interests. Just as the referendum was".
Discuss.
http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-3674993/Jaguar-Land-Rover-opens-20m-showroom-personalise-cars.html Jaguar not worrying about brexit
Don't fancy a trip back in time for a punt on those odds, Purrrrrfect?
But I wouldn't bet against a second referendum and/or an early election, once the dust has settled...
Sorry to say Gary, but I understood exactly what you meant! Sadly, yet predictably, it went straight over the head of the sleepy one and it's 7 agreers...
Isn't Jaguaar/British Leyland owned by TATA motors of India?
Wonder where the steel comes from to make those cars?
Thank you for your link, Roberta.
"Jaguar Land Rover opens new £20m James Bond-style special ops centre to build bespoke cars for wealthy customers"
Two points:
The first is that this reinforces the much needed message 'Keep Calm and Carry On '. Jaguar will have long had this in their marketing pipeline - and while they, like most other people in this country, will not have expected the referendum result we all now have to live with, there would be little point in now wasting this considerable up-front investment.
The second is that the sort of top-end discretionary goods that Jaguar will be offering are not (primarly) aimed at the man in the street (don't expect much change from £1,000,000 for a highly desirable replica XKSS) but at footballers, wealthy foreign buyers and plutocrats. It is this same fine body of people who last week have given Savills (by all accounts) a very good week in sales of super-prime property in London. With the pound now 10% below pre-referendum levels (and still falling) a 'modest' £2,500,000 property in SW1 would now be a cool £250,000 cheaper in dollar terms.
The mega-rich, famous and infamous will be having a field day - while those in the real world will be watching their pennies. Social mobility - already a fragile commodity - will be increasingly under threat.
But there is now much heavy lifting to be done. With their recent political pratfalls invoking for many scenes not of Brutus and Julius but of Laurel and Hardy, Gove and Johnson must clear the stage. Bring on (in Ken Clarke's 'off-mike' words) the "difficult woman"...
“Leave= an alliance between ultra libertarian free market advocates who wanted to position the UK to take full advantage of globalization and large swathes of the population who felt that this trend had gone far enough already. Thank you very much.
One group saw the EU as a barrier to the rest of the world, the other saw it as the portal through which everything they disliked had poured”.
Discuss
Interesting Lynne. While the DT's front pages were (for the large part) advocating Leave, their business section had been cautioning Remain.
Seems the paper became as split on this subject as the rest of us in the run up to the vote. This post-referendum synopsis, while simplistic, spells out the polarisation of opinion that now exists as a result.
Economists and business people eh? Would they fall into the 'expert' category that Michael Gove said people were fed up with?
And as for the Governor of the Bank of England. Well! I mean! What on earth does he know about anything?! We wouldn't want an
expert in charge of the BoE, would we? Heaven forbid!
As this is now the Gary and Lynne show why don't you do this through email rather than on a public forum?
Because other people just might be interested in what we have to say Margaret. It is, as you say, a public forum.
Just because you aren't interested, doesn't mean to say others (who may not even post) are not.
As I have said to you (and others) before, if you are not interested in what we write about then
don't read what we have to say.
Simple.
You don't agree with what they say so this should be done in private?
There are plenty of people who read the forums and don't comment, you aren't speaking for everyone Margaret.
Oh the irony!
Lynne, I know you won't let the hypocritical bullies silence/censor you. Keep up the good work please.
Well I knew you would pipe up as you just cannot help yourself. I will happily be rude to you as you are the vilest poster on this forum. Get back in your box.
I have in my hand a newspaper.
At the back, like many newspapers it has a sports section.
Will I read that section? No.
Why? Because I find sport boring.
Should I write to the editor of that newspaper and say 'stop reporting on sport because I find it boring'.
No.
Why not?
Because I recognise that whilst I find it boring for others it is of great interest.
See what I'm getting at?
@MV - thank you and you are absolutely bang on.
Personally speaking, I'm finding the information supplied and the following discussions from Lynne, S, MV and Gary Taylor very interesting. However if I found them boring I simply wouldn't bother to read them. As those annoying rodent things would say... simples! lol
Oh Gary you are in between a cat fight. As for me I rather enjoy seeing these two go at it lol, but as of now I think Lynne is just ahead by a cats whisker.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36711595
Pound slides to 31 year low against the dollar.
(anyone going to the States anytime soon?)
Good article about the Labour party by Owen Jones https://medium.com/@OwenJones84/angela-eagles-campaign-and-labour-s-crisis-bb9b2d3d5ad8#.6yy0ilq39
Far be it for me to comment, Brooklyn Bridge - except to say that I am looking forward to Gove getting his marching orders at the next stage of the Tory leadership battle.
As for the Labour party, they may have had a whole lot of people joining up to vote - but half will be to vote for JC to remain, the other half to vote him out.
Meanwhile the news from Lib Dem HQ is that over 15,000 people have joined the party since the referendum. Pretty good going considering we don't have a raging leadership battle in progress.
So: Keep Calm - and Carry On (even if the pound has now slid to a new 30-odd year low)
Leadsom's speech is so full of soundbites and empty promises.
Leadsom: Prosperity should be our goal, not austerity. (she was very pleased with herself on this one)
Leadsom: I want to spread prosperity to every corner of our country. I want to help create more jobs.
Leadsom: Let's banish the pessimist.
Leadsom: We can be the greatest nation on Earth.
Leadsom: I want to see better training, smarter working and yes higher pay for the many.
What does any of that mean? How is she going to do that? Did her team just have a brain storming session late last night?
She isn't alone in doing this in a speech but it all means nothing - just words. Politicians, all words, no action (I have started doing it now ...)
@MargaretSwift - so, still beyond boring for you but still readable enough for you to still post on it then.
Is that right?
http://www.cityam.com/245024/senior-tory-mp-has-blasted-treasury-failure-plan-around This has been my thoughts since 24th June. Cameron and Remain were so arrogant that they thought the vote would go their way, and had no contingency plan in force. Instead he chose to drop the Country in the shit and announce he was standing down. He should have stayed and got everything moving. If remain hadwon he would still be PM. Spoilt brat like the rest of them and spitting their dummies out. He will be remembered as a failure
No mention on the propaganda leaflet that the government would take fright and do a runner.
Dont worry everyone "they have a plan " May to win, General Election called with a mandate to reject the referendum result !!!!
I think there's a lot of work to do to rebuild the Tory party before any general election. If May wins the PM vote she will have Leadsom with her in any EU negotiations, provided of course she agrees to such a role. I think the election is likely to be held on the basis of the settlement proposed by the EU.
Would the Tories really try to steal the Lib Dem's clothes? They had the shirts off our backs last year - so perhaps Roberta, you have a point...
Just read this in the Telegraph ". The Prime Minister needs to dust off the lectern he used during the referendum, call a press conference in front of 10 Downing Street, and explain clearly and passionately that he, Theresa May and Andrea Leadsom all believe in a global, open, free-trading Britain. He is still being paid his prime ministerial salary; now he needs to earn it by explaining to business that Brexit means more globalisation, not less, more market access (in the aggregate), not less, and a shared commitment, regardless of who becomes the next prime minister, to bolster the UK’s competitiveness."
Full article http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/07/07/my-10-point-plan-to-kick-start-the-economy-after-the-referendum/
I will be watching with interest to see how those towards the socio/economic bottom of this country end up faring in this brave new world that is being trailed by the Brexiteers.
And I shall be particularly interested in reading the UKIP manifesto whenever the next general election gets held.
Have been away for a few days and thought there would be more interesting things to read on the forum i cant believe this is still going on.
To be fair, it is the single most destructive thing that has happened to the UK in my lifetime... except maybe Thatcher 
@leatash -as has been pointed out to others (and on this thread as well!) if you don't find this thread of interest then just remember
that no-one is making you read it.
One advantage of Brexit, albeit minor in the scheme of things, will mean we can get truthful results from online search engines, instead of them being censored by the EU. Just try searching a person's name on Google (for one) and see the disclaimer at the foot of the page.
Burneside, if you think that citizens of Non-EU but European countries Norway, Iceland, Switzerland and Liechtenstein don't have the right to ask Google to remove search results that violate their right to privacy, then you're mistaken.
Thank you Fred. Not bad as a visual metaphor for the hard work the party is continuing to do.
Sending an honest message; using modest resources effectively; picking up the pieces and repurposing the good.
So while the larger political parties kick the can down the road with their prolonged leadership battles, we are getting on with the job.
So, Mrs C, you consider it entirely right that criminals and ne'er-do-wells can use the EU's "right to be forgotten" diktat for their own advantage? It's rather difficult to research the stories as, obviously, they are now hidden, but I did find this reporting:
And in a further sinister move, since March this year, citizens of EU member states using global search engines such as google.com are now barred from seeing results that everybody else in the world can view.
Brexit cannot come soon enough.
Burneside. Did I write that? No.
I was pointing out that citizens of non-EU countries also have the right to ask Google to remove certain search results relating to them.
The "right to be forgotten" diktat applies only to EU countries, presumably the four countries you mention have signed up to the agreement in return for EU favours, well more fool them.
And let's not forget this ridiculous law only came into being because a Spaniard didn't want his bankruptcy to be common knowledge.