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webmaster
webmaster
30 May 2016 13:24
Gary Taylor
Gary Taylor
30 May 2016 13:46

OK so this is where we left off:

 

Image result for trump boris images

 

Bad or mad? And I don't mean the hair

2 Agrees
b.o.liking
b.o.liking
30 May 2016 14:27

Our Prime Minister has made us out to be unable to cope without the E.U.Well when we sh-t on and turned our back on the commonwealth

no one told us we were to be governed by a dictatorships. We were sold a Common market not a federal state of Europe.

2 Agrees
Gary Taylor
Gary Taylor
31 May 2016 13:21
burneside
burneside
31 May 2016 14:00

Hawking is a man with an opinion, just like everybody else.

Gary Taylor
Gary Taylor
01 Jun 2016 08:23

Very true Burneside. And with failings too:

 

Stephen Hawking has said that he fails to understand the popularity of Donald Trump, the presumptive US Republican presidential candidate.

ITV’s Good Morning Britain asked the man who has widened the world’s understanding of time, space, stars, galaxies and black holes if he could explain the popular appeal of the billionaire tycoon.

“I can’t. He’s a demagogue who seems to appeal to the lowest common denominator.”

Gary Taylor
Gary Taylor
01 Jun 2016 12:51

But on the other hand:

 

His latest return to referendum politics is less of a surprise: many of Britain’s most senior scientists have backed the remain campaign.

“Gone are the days when we could stand on our own, against the world,” he said on the television breakfast show. “We need to be part of a larger group of nations, both for our security and our trade. The possibility of our leaving the EU has already led to a sharp fall in the pound, because the markets judge that it will damage our economy.”

burneside
burneside
01 Jun 2016 13:38

So you think that somebody who looks at the stars is an authority on EU matters?  More fool you.  I certainly won't be taking any advice from Hawking.

Gary Taylor
Gary Taylor
01 Jun 2016 13:49

I can't think of anyone more far-sighted...

burneside
burneside
01 Jun 2016 14:06

In that case, I think Mystic Meg would be your better bet.

Gary Taylor
Gary Taylor
01 Jun 2016 14:10

Isn't that who the 'Leave' campaign are using?

burneside
burneside
01 Jun 2016 14:16

No idea, but I don't think she can be any worse than Hawking, who arrogantly thinks he knows it all.

S
S
01 Jun 2016 16:08

@burneside you are really calling hawking arrogant? he has never come across has arrogant or is he arrogant because he disagrees with you?

 

I don't agree with saying he must be right and the remain campaign is right because he says so. 

 

I have watched both Gove and Johnson interviewed recently and neither could answer a question straight because they just don't know what will happen if we leave the EU.  No promises of money "saved" going to certain areas is going to happen without the Government saying so and the key people want to say in.

 

Gove was even asked about migration from non-EU, that we have complete control of, and why we don't reduce that, he just changed the subject on EU migrants again. I don't trust the majority of MPs but really don't trust Gove or Johnson to stick to anything they saying (although that isn't much).

 

The amount we send to the EU is 0.023% of the revenue of the UK, small percentage. What we get back is worth it. That is the equivalent of £4.60 a year if you were to pay that percentage out of a £20,000 salary.

 

 

2 Agrees
S
S
01 Jun 2016 16:10

@burneside - hawking is more than someone that looks at the stars! clearly you don't understand anything about his work!

 

 

 

2 Agrees
burneside
burneside
01 Jun 2016 19:58

You make our EU contributions sound like mere pocket money (£13-£18bn p.a., depending who you believe).  But for me it is far more than money, it is the fact that over the years various governments have signed away our sovereignty, and I sincerely hope on June 23rd the people reclaim it.

Oh, and I still stand by my opinion of Hawking.

3 Agrees
S
S
01 Jun 2016 23:40

Or 8 billion which is the 161 million we pay per week

burneside
burneside
01 Jun 2016 23:53

I actually do not believe your figure, I think you need to do some better research.   But even if I did accept that figure, it is still eight billion too much.

2 Agrees
S
S
02 Jun 2016 08:33

https://fullfact.org/europe/membership-fee-eu/

 

You are right it could be anything between £8-15 billion :-)

 

I was basing on a few reports saying we pay £161million a week but one source was the BBC which is a little less reliable to be unbias this days.

 

Still stand by my statement that it is worth it being in the EU and Hawking :-)

 

Gary Taylor
Gary Taylor
05 Jun 2016 13:03

CkC2qmiWUAAu8hE

Lynne
Lynne
05 Jun 2016 18:01

On the issue of immigration.

Just supposing we Vote to Leave.

Will there be barbed wire all along the border and passport control check points between Northern Ireland and the Republic?

I mean, we couldn't have an open land border could we otherwise we would leave ourselves wide open 

(literally) to illegal immigrants to the UK accessing the UK via the ROI. 

Gary Taylor
Gary Taylor
05 Jun 2016 19:48

And then there's the Scottish question...

Morty Vicker
Morty Vicker
05 Jun 2016 21:28

"Och aye. I dinnae ken wither tae vote in or oot."

If Trump, Johnson, Gove, Duncan-Smith, Farage and Burneside all think we should vote out, then it's obvious which way any sensible person should cast their vote. In my opinion. 

1 Agree
burneside
burneside
06 Jun 2016 01:06

Yet another poll  shows the Remain camp are failing to convince the public that we should stay in the EU.  With only a couple of weeks to go before the referendum this is disastrous news for Cameron, Brexit now seems increasingly likely.  

POLL GIVES BREXIT CAMPAIGN LEAD OF THREE PERCENTAGE POINTS

The leave campaign has picked up momentum and taken a three-point lead over remain in the latest Observer/Opinium poll on the EU referendum. The Brexiters now stand on 43%, while 40% say they support the campaign to keep the UK in the union.

The poll suggests the remain camp has lost four percentage points in the last two weeks, during which Boris Johnson and Michael Gove have relentlessly campaigned on the theme of immigration.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/04/poll-eu-brexit-lead-opinium?CMP=share_btn_tw

 

 

 

Lynne
Lynne
06 Jun 2016 07:42

And on the question of 'all these immigrants taking our jobs".

Some points:

1. So, immigrants are working then. So not on the dole then.

2. Paying taxes as well, thereby contributing to the cost of public services

3. And..... if there are jobs, which immigrants are doing, why aren't the indigenous Brits doing these jobs? On the tv the other day I saw a young man, I'll put him in his mid-20s, who said he would be voting out as he hadn't had a job since he left school and that was because all the immigrants take all the jobs. Well, first off immigrants don't take all the jobs, do they? and secondly, and as I haver already observed, if there are jobs to be taken why haven't the indigenous Brits taken them? 

If it is skilled work then maybe the Brits don't have the skills, but if it is unskilled work............?

4 Agrees
S
S
06 Jun 2016 11:31

The leave campaign does seem to more active that the Remain side. Leave are still spouting their lies, opinions and propaganda. I cringe when you do hear from the Remain campaign and they do the same thing!

 

As said by Neil deGrasse Tyson, an American Astrophysicist, on Twitter "In any election, there are only ever two kinds of voters: those who are informed and those who are not."

 

 

Carer
Carer
06 Jun 2016 18:23

UK Contribution to EU

 

I keep reading in this extraordinary long forum about how much we (the UK) pay the EU every Day/Week/Month/Year.

Has anybody mentioned exactly how much we get back?

 

I wait for your abuse and false manipulated figures.

S
S
07 Jun 2016 00:28

Because it is hard to give a figure for. Anyone who does is purely speculating.

 

£161m we pay is after the money we get back through funding and the rebate. That is what we know.

 

Now we make money being in the EU due to free trade etc but that figure is finger in the air stuff.

Paul
Paul
07 Jun 2016 07:17

How can being charged £161M a week be described as 'free trade'?

What we do know is that the EU is made up mostly of loser countries, all leeches. We are far better off out.

The trade won't change, it's simply lies. Do you really think German companies such as BMW will suddenly think, "I know, let's stop selling our cars to Britain".

The EU doesn't nothing for the UK. Have France or Germany ever been on our side? No never, currently they are acking all nice as they need us to stay in to help pay for the Euro currency failure.

Cameron deal is meaningless, if we voted in, France and Germany will immediately switch back to being selfish gits and we would be constantly fighting the EU as we have done for the last 40 years.

Well enough is enough, let's get out of this ruddy nightmare. Trade with the world as we want, get rid of these leeches that have never been fair and get at minimum £700M a month.

OUT

 

5 Agrees
Lynne
Lynne
07 Jun 2016 08:03

According to OBR forecasts, in the next five years the UK’s average net contribution will be around £9.6 billion per year while the average annual rebate should be around £5 billion.

To get a sense of the magnitude of those numbers we can say that in 2014-15 UK public spending was £735 billion. The total EU public expenditure in the same year was around £118 billion meaning that the 2015 UK public expenditure was over six times more than the whole of the EU’s expenditure.

All this implies that compared to the overall value of the UK-EU economic relationship, the UK contribution to the EU budget is quite a small number.

From: http://theconversation.com/the-uks-eu-rebate-explained-58019

 

 

Paul
Paul
07 Jun 2016 10:12

Well that makes a lot of sense. £5 billion is a small number. Think what we could do with that? 

 

'UK-EU economic relationship' - just a complete rip off.

S
S
07 Jun 2016 10:18

@Lynne i have tried to point out how small our contribution is compared to revenue but people still think we can save the nhs with this money if we aren't in the eu. which is rubbish because you trusting mps like gove to spend it on the right services. the reason the nhs is underfunded is because the government chose to not because we are sending money to the eu. this is assuming we actually going to save any money coming out because it will take time and money to extract ourselves and set up new trade deals etc

 

There are things that need to be addressed within the EU and we need reforms but don't throw out the good with the bad by coming out.

 

I don't think anything is going to persuade the OUTers on here that staying in makes the best political and economic sense so just hoping we have more sense to vote IN as a country.

 

Paul
Paul
07 Jun 2016 10:27

Because it does not make sense. You seem to have placed the EU as some sort of mythical helper, when it has only ever been a hindrance.

What is so great about the EU? 

S
S
07 Jun 2016 10:42
Just off the top of my head
 
* Freedom to live and work anywhere in Europe
* Consumer rights
* European coordination and cooperation in the fight against crime
* Research into renewable technologies
* Strict standards for electrical appliances 
* At least four weeks' paid holiday and extended parental leave
* Part-time workers have the same rights as full-time staff 
* More workers have the legal right to request flexible working arrangements
* Protected by high health and safety standards in the workplace
* European Court of Human Rights
* EU subsidies to British farmers
 
As I said nothing is going to your mind.
 
If you believe Johnson, Gove and Farage have your best interests at heart then ...
 
1 Agree
burneside
burneside
07 Jun 2016 10:55

And don't forget the EU should have published details of its intended new budget at the end of May, but has deliberately held off until after the referendum, you have to ask yourself why it has done this.  Should we vote to remain, it is impossible to project with any certainty what we will be paying into the EU over the next few years.  

Remember that surprise £1.7bn bill we were presented with in autumn 2014, because our economy was judged to have performed better than expected? Cameron blustered he would refuse to pay, but of course he did.  At the same time Germany and France both received refunds in the region of £800million.  We are being taken for mugs by the EU.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/oct/24/david-cameron-in-dark-eu-bill-2bn-george-osborne

 

3 Agrees
S
S
07 Jun 2016 11:08

I'm not saying the EU is perfect, it is far from it. The EU needs major reforms and these will take time but removing ourselves for very little gain if any at all is not the answer.

S
S
07 Jun 2016 11:10

And concerning that EU bill, it should have been expected as it is linked to our economy. If we do well then we pay more. The Tories knew that so it is bollocks it was unexpected, they could have worked it out.

burneside
burneside
07 Jun 2016 11:19

The "unexpected" bill also took into account black earnings such as drug dealing and prostitution, how on earth are those kind of figures supposed to be reliably calculated?  And what a wonderful club we belong to, that thinks they should be included.  I expect they wanted to charge VAT on them too.

1 Agree
Carer
Carer
07 Jun 2016 11:31

And let's not forget the Romans!

What have the Romans ever done for us? cheeky

Purrrrrfect
Purrrrrfect
07 Jun 2016 12:30

@S in reply to your posting 07 june 2016 10:42hrs -

 

For each of your points you made I could state a negative to each, not that I can be arsed.

The E.U. non elected governing body lives in a fantasy world. Where there new rules and reg's are forced down the throats of member states that are in no position to adopt them without significant impact to their social and economic structure.

I would agree that some of the rules and reg's are meant to assist in the fair and safe working environments, but we all know that a lot of employers ignore these changes. If, as an employee, you speak out/report these employers you end up getting the boot.

The only party who is fully behind exiting the E.U. is the one party who will lose the most.

If after 40 years of absolute carnage to our laws, borders. fishing/farming communities and unchecked mass immigration you cannot see the wood for the trees !

As to the human rights you remark on the E.U. forced changes have been used extensively by many groups to stay in our country against the wishes of good sense and prisoner's to claim compensation, in the millions of £ in relation to their living conditions.

I will be voting out, but you know the governemnt will not allow us to leave and the end result of the vote will be to stay in by 1 or 2 percent.

6 Agrees
S
S
07 Jun 2016 12:47

You really think UKIP will lose out? They think they have a chance to run the country, that is the ultimate plan. If Farage had any principles he wouldn't be an MEP in the first place as he's so strongly disagrees with it.

 

You can't blame the EU for employers not doing what they are meant to.

 

The conspiracy theory that remain will win anyway is ridiculous. 

 

The black economy being included is an international standard adopted by EU states.

 

 

Paul
Paul
07 Jun 2016 13:02

@S. remember bsi s kite mark, english law, h&s is over 200 years old, eu susides is our money anyway, etc.

You are trying to say that without the EU we wouldn't have any of these. 

It would be great if the EU worked and benefitted all members, sadly it does not. 

The EU is beyond fixing, if we vote in it will just get worse, no option other than to vote OUT.

1 Agree
burneside
burneside
07 Jun 2016 13:05

So the black economy, which is totally tax free to its users, is included in GDP figures which results in law-abiding citizens having to pay yet even more tax.

Have we fallen through the looking-glass?

1 Agree
S
S
07 Jun 2016 13:09

It needs fixing and we can't do that if we aren't in it. We can't keep blaming the EU for everything like the people blame the immigrants for all their problems. Despite the rubbish spoken and written the government are still in control the country.

 

We need a better government and that won't change if we are in or out. UKIP is not the ****ing answer either. Nothing good has ever come from far right groups!

 

I hope for once a conspiracy theory is right and we do remain though ;-)

1 Agree
S
S
07 Jun 2016 13:16

@burneside I agree not sure why we would include the black economy. This is not an EU initiative but an international standard. this would only boost a corrupt government's GDP surely?

Gary Taylor
Gary Taylor
07 Jun 2016 15:26
FredBassett
FredBassett
07 Jun 2016 15:51

France go to the polls next year to elect their next president and Madam Le Pen currently enjoys 58% of the poll. Her first policy will be an EU in or Out referendum which of course will be out given the current state of the country.

If Germany oust Merkel as well the EU is finished. So if we vote in it will be us Sweden the eastern block and Turkey left to pick up the pieces.

The only sensible and secure way to keep Britain a credible nation is to vote Leave on the 23rd. Take no notice of the wannabe polititions that just want to jump on the EU gravy train in order to line their own pockets. 

2 Agrees
S
S
07 Jun 2016 16:31

Turkey aren't getting into the EU anytime soon.

If Le Pen wins then France is screwed and I suggest we build a wall ...

 

 

 

Gary Taylor
Gary Taylor
07 Jun 2016 16:55

Time to hear from a neutral on the subject?

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MsNXmfqQqOU

 

Brexit the Movie - a Swiss reply

Paul
Paul
07 Jun 2016 17:05

@S, better get some champagne in for the 24th to celebrate independence day.

3 Agrees
Gary Taylor
Gary Taylor
07 Jun 2016 17:22

Best get some pre-Brexit stocks in, Paul. You won't like what the exchange rate will do for the price of your favourite tipple if we leave...

1 Agree
S
S
07 Jun 2016 17:35

Isn't the conspiracy that it won't happen? So no independence day ;-)

1 Agree
Lynne
Lynne
07 Jun 2016 18:07

@GT - Yes, hasn't the pound been falling because the market is getting wobbly about there being a Brexit vote?  

1 Agree
FredBassett
FredBassett
07 Jun 2016 18:18

@Lynne

Isent that another tatic being led by CaMoron and his banker mates. They control the bank of England and the stock markets so can in effect easily manipulate the value of the pound.

4 Agrees
Paul
Paul
07 Jun 2016 18:20

@S, yes, but i'm just pointing out that the conspiracy won't happen. so you can happily 

celebrate our independence.

 

Lynne
Lynne
07 Jun 2016 18:36

@FB - you'll be telling me next that they control the overseas banks and stock markets 'n all.

Gary Taylor
Gary Taylor
07 Jun 2016 18:39

How refreshing. A Brexiter that does not believe in a conspiracy theory.

 

Or is that only if we vote in favour of cutting ourselves adrift?

1 Agree
burneside
burneside
07 Jun 2016 20:05

A quite astonishing story how EU leaders have been muzzled, and the EU Commission has gone into virtual lockdown until after the referendum.

WHY EU LEADERS AREN'T DEBATING BREXIT

David Cameron has asked EU leaders to keep out of the Brexit debate as milions of British citizens prepare to vote on their future in the European Union.

The muzzling has led to political paralysis in Brussels.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/why-eu-leaders-are-not-speaking-out-about-brexit-a-1094261.html

 

One thing is certain, if Remain win the vote, come June 24th there is going to be a whole heap of shit coming our way from Brussels.

 

2 Agrees
Paul
Paul
07 Jun 2016 20:41

Cameron and gang wouldn't get away with rigging the vote, as it is obvious we're all voting out.

Great Seal

S
S
08 Jun 2016 02:11

The reason conspiracy theories don't have any substance is because once you work out how many people would need to be involved in keeping the secret you realise it is very unlikely. 

Carer
Carer
08 Jun 2016 07:58

We don't have a Commonwealth anymore.

We just about have a Navy.

Same for the Air Force.

Army being depleted.

Forces relying more on Volunteers.

 

How will we (the UK) defend ourselves?

 

If the Argies invade the Falklands, we could always counter attack in rowing boats while throwing rocks at them.

What will happen if the UK was attacked?

Will our friends in Europe (who we rejected if voting out) come to our aid?

Or even A Merry Car, will they help us?

 

We can only wait and see.

1 Agree
Purrrrrfect
Purrrrrfect
08 Jun 2016 10:04

@S - to all your bluster you only have to look at Greece to see an example of the e.u's blind greed to

build a superpower they command at the expense of common, no pun intended, sense.

 

Just wait for the more primitive ex Soviet block countries to join over the next decade

or so and then you will see crime in this country escalate to a new high.

 

Below is a link to Greece's current debt, which stands at a smidge below 400 billion euro's,

twice there gdp.

http://www.nationaldebtclocks.org/debtclock/greece

 

OUT, OUT, OUT is that clear enough for you.

 

 

1 Agree
burneside
burneside
08 Jun 2016 10:13

I fail to see what Brexit has to do with our military capability, we have no defence pact with the EU, we get that security from our membership of NATO and have done since 1949.  Although, Germany is pressing for the creation of a single EU army, that is one of the many things which is being kept under wraps until after June 23rd.

As for asking if "our friends in Europe" would come to our aid if needed, don't ever forget that during the Falklands conflict the French were supplying the Argies with technical expertise for the Exocet missiles they had sold to them.  You'd think they would have been a bit more grateful after we saved their arses in the Second World War.

S
S
08 Jun 2016 11:11

@Purrrrrfect the UK's debt is over 80% of its GDP (http://www.nationaldebtclocks.org/debtclock/unitedkingdom) and that isn't because of the EU although I am sure it will be claimed it is. 

 

 

1 Agree
Brooklyn Bridge
Brooklyn Bridge
08 Jun 2016 11:55

What a shambles last nights debate was. Farage was heckled not being able to answer questions put to him during the allocted time for each question. Cameron on the other hand was allowed the time and more to answer question many of which he carefully ovoided. It was very obvious that the audience been selected to barage Frarage ( excuse the pun ) ...... Now we hear the website for people to register had gone down, this my friends is the start of the stich up and i feel that the vote will in some way be fixed for the IN party.

1 Agree
Gary Taylor
Gary Taylor
08 Jun 2016 12:08

Absolutely right S.

 

Successive UK Government's have grappled with our national debt - but it is growing still. Cutting ties with our closest economic partners will be ruinous to the very trade we are relying on to extricate us from this fiscal black hole.

 

Even BoJo admits to a short term shock to the economy following Brexit - but offers no guarantee things would get better. Without a concrete way forward (other than the saving of the money paid to the EU - which in any case is dwarfed by the value of the additional trade we enjoy) confidence will desert the inward investment the country needs, thus starting us on a steep and slippery slope to further recession.

 

Like the one Switzerland had (see above) - but probably a lot worse.

 

I note that in today's Gazette, Central Devon Tory MP Mel Stride makes the case for why he believes many strong Eurosceptics will come to the rational decision that we are better off voting to remain in the EU.

 

I'm not often drawn to his column, however he offers this: "... the choice on the ballot paper doesn't ask whether the EU is perfect, how flawed it is or whether we love it or not - rather it asks whether our country will be better off staying within or saying farewell". 

 

What a shame such sound reasoning is not to be heard from our own MP.

2 Agrees
S
S
08 Jun 2016 12:39

Not sure if anyone saw this last night http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b07g8t71/jack-dees-helpdesk-referendum-2016-episode-1 but I thought it was very funny. It helped that I liked everyone on the "panel" but good to have a light-hearted programme about the referendum.

 

I think there may have been a little laughing at Brexiters due to the panel make-up :-)

Morty Vicker
Morty Vicker
08 Jun 2016 13:41

I've just read this on Facebook:

 

Immigration has been in the news a lot lately, especially with the EU referendum coming up.
 
So let's use the tools and data of political science to understand the topic better.
 
Last year, 270,000 EU citizens immigrated to the UK, and 85,000 returned to the EU.  So EU net migration was around 185,000 (1).  Additionally, a similar number came from outside the EU, so 330,000 in total.
 
That was the highest ever level of EU migration – going all the way back to when we joined the EEC in 1975.  Indeed during the 1980s the trend was the other way – British workers moved overseas, particularly to Germany, as their economy was doing better than ours at that time.  You might remember the TV show ‘Auf Wiedersehen Pet’.  Currently our economy is doing better than many European ones so more people are coming than going.  But there's no reason to think that will always be the case.
 
The Leave campaign claim that EU migration is putting unsustainable pressure on our public services, worsening the housing crisis, putting pressure on the NHS, on schools and on our roads.  Their latest TV broadcast for instance shows a sick older lady receiving NHS treatment much faster in an imaginary hospital if we leave the EU.  Are they right?
 
Imagine that we left the EU and banned EU immigration completely.  Nobody else allowed – no footballers, no entertainers, no chefs, no businessmen, no nurses, no cleaners, nobody.  And we kept that door shut for ten years.  And for comparison let’s say that we stayed in the EU and immigration continues at this year’s record level (the highest ever) for the next ten years.  How would that impact our population and our public services?  
 
In terms of population, we’d end up with 1.85m fewer people living in our country after the 10 years.  That sounds like a lot of people, which it is.  But we’re a big country – 64.6m in total at the moment (2).  So even under these very extreme assumptions the difference is only 2.8%.  Less than 1 in 35.
 
Would you notice the difference if there were 34 instead of 35 people in your doctors’ waiting room?  If there were 34 instead of 35 cars ahead of you in the traffic jam?  Would your child’s education suffer in a class of 34 instead of 35?  I doubt it.  
 
And don’t forget that we’re making crazily unrealistic assumptions about how much we could reduce immigration if we left the EU.  Because even the most ardent Leave campaigners don’t say that we should stop immigration altogether.  They usually talk of using a points system to reach the government’s net target of 100,000 per year.  So the difference in population after 10 years wouldn’t be anything like as much as 1 in 35.  
 
Let’s say we could hit the net target of 100,000 – half from the EU and half from non-EU countries for the sake of argument.  In that case, the difference in population after 10 years would be 1.35m or 1 in 49.
 
And don’t forget that we’re also making another very aggressive assumption – that migration will continue at the same level as last year, our highest ever.  It would be more realistic to take the average of the last five years migration (3).  If we do that, then the difference in our population after ten years would be only 790,000 or 1 in 82.
 
1 in 82.  
 
I can’t tell the difference between a crowd of 81 and 82 people (even when they were my own wedding guests!).  Can you?
 
So here’s the thing: however you feel about EU immigration, even under extreme assumptions the impact on our overall population just isn’t very large.
 
Now at this point some of you might be thinking – “This can't be right - step outside and look with your own eyes!  Britain is full of foreigners!  The place I grew up is like another country!  How can you claim that EU immigration is not significant?”.  
 
I live in inner London so I can sense where you might be coming from.  A few things to bear in mind:
 
1) The overwhelming majority of immigration to the UK over the last 40 years has been from outside the EU (3).  However you feel about that, it has nothing to do with our EU membership;
 
2) Whether you like it or not, Britain has been a multicultural country for several generations at least.  You can’t tell whether somebody is an immigrant just by looking at them (sorry if this is an obvious point).  You might hazard a guess at their ethnicity or race but that’s a very different thing;
 
3) Historically, immigrants have clustered in particular areas of the country, so your neighbourhood may not be representative of the country at large;
 
4) British people from all backgrounds have become much more cosmopolitan in their tastes over the last 40 years.  We drink in pubs much less, but enjoy wine at home or go to restaurants and cafes a lot more.  Instead of just eating British food, we enjoy flavours from all over the world.  So the retail and commercial landscape of our country has changed - to reflect our changing tastes, not just because of new arrivals.
 
“But wait!  What when Turkey, Montenegro and Albania join the EU?  We’ll be swamped!” 
 
No we won’t.  
 
Mainly because Turkey and Albania are nowhere near being eligible to join the EU, and Montenegro is tiny.  Also don't forget there are 27 other countries in the EU to choose from if residents of those countries did fancy a change of scene.
 
And even if in the distant future many other countries did join and we did find ourselves swamped, Britain could leave.  We’re free to leave the EU whenever we want.  But if we leave and then want to rejoin, we’d need the consent of all 27 other member states.  Better to stay and keep our options open than leave in fear of something that is very unlikely to happen.
 
And so far we’ve also not factored in the contribution that immigrants make to our country, and specifically our public finances.  EU migrants contribute more in taxes than they use in public services, as they are much more likely to be of working age than the general population (4).  So if we used that extra tax revenue to hire more doctors, build more schools, invest in transport and so on, we’d actually have better public services than we would without any EU immigration.
 
It takes time to hire and train teachers and doctors, build schools and roads, and so forth.  So it’s true that a sudden influx of people into an area can put short-term pressure on services.  But the fundamental reason for the issues we identified at the start – NHS pressure, oversubscribed schools, congested roads, the housing crisis – is not EU immigration.  
 
We are now six years into a government austerity programme to attempt to balance the books.  So it’s not surprising that our public services are feeling the pinch.
 
An ageing population and new advances in medicine put particular strain on the NHS.
 
For the last thirty years, we have failed by a wide margin to build enough houses in the UK.  Interest rates have been at an ‘emergency’ rate of 0.5% for the last seven years.   That is why house prices are so high.
 
And this story of decades of underinvestment is repeated for our roads and railways too.
 
All of these issues are home-grown.  And all of those policy areas are entirely within the control of our government in Westminster.  They have nothing to do with the EU and are not the fault of EU migrants.
 
Finally, there’s been plenty of academic research into this issue, including a summary paper just published by the London School of Economics (5).  
 
The research shows, contrary to many tabloid headlines, that
 
1) Immigrants do not take a disproportionate share of jobs created by our economy;
2) There is no evidence of an overall negative impact of immigration on wages;
3) There is no evidence that EU migrants affect the labour market performance of native-born workers (i.e. make it harder for native-born workers to get promoted, get a pay rise, etc)
 
So it is clear from examining the evidence that fears of immigration have been blown out of all proportion by the Eurosceptic press and the Leave campaign.
 
But what about all that money we send the EU?  Couldn't we use that to improve public services?  
 
Yes, but it wouldn't go very far, and it would be outweighed by the economic damage from leaving.  
 
Our net contribution to the EU was £8.5bn last year (6) which works out at 36 pence per person per day.  That is a drop in the ocean compared to our annual NHS budget of £116.4bn (7).
 
And if you’re trying to work out the impact of leaving the EU on our public services, you can’t just look at our net contribution.  You also need to consider the effect that leaving would have on the size of our economy, and hence the tax revenue the government can generate.
 
Seven highly respected independent economic organisations have tried to work this out (8).  And all seven of them have reached the same conclusion: that the economic damage caused by Brexit would more than offset the saving from our EU contribution.   
 
The best estimate suggests that the government would have between £20bn and £40bn less to spend on public services than if we remained in the EU (9).  So our public services wouldn't be better if we left the EU - they would be much worse.
 
So if we left the EU to ‘take control of immigration’, and then reduced it as discussed above, we’d still have all the same problems we have today – the housing crisis, an overstretched NHS, oversubscribed schools, heavy traffic, etc.
 
But we’d also have two even more serious problems to add to the list: a recession and the unknown consequences of destabilising the very institution which has secured peace in Europe for the last 70 years.
 
People are sceptical of economists’ forecasts.  But you don’t even need to estimate many of the economic problems that will arise from Brexit – you can see them already in the currency markets.  
 
The pound suffered its biggest one day fall in seven years when Boris and other MPs joined the leave campaign (10).  You can watch the impact of movements in the referendum opinion polls in the EUR/GBP exchange rate.  A major bank recently warned that Brexit could wipe 20% off the value of the pound through devaluation (11).  
 
Devaluation sounds like a dry and abstract concept.  So let me explain what that means: 
 
20% of your life savings wiped out overnight.  
 
The numbers in your bank account will be the same, but what you can buy with it will be 20% less, since most things we buy these days come from overseas.
 
Only the other day the Financial Times reported that hedge funds are planning to run their own private exit polls on referendum day to speculate on the currency markets ahead of the official result (12).  
Just as during the ERM crisis of 1992, the vultures are circling, waiting to feast on our self-inflicted wounds.
 
And here’s another very clear threat: to our jobs.  Only last Friday, Jamie Dimon, CEO of JP Morgan, warned his staff in Bournemouth that one, two or even four thousand of them would be made redundant if we leave the EU (13).  Imagine how his staff are feeling today.  And as a manager, let me tell you: that’s not the kind of thing you tell your employees unless you’re deadly serious.
 
Even leading Leave campaigner Michael Gove admitted just a few days ago that jobs are at risk if we leave the EU (14).   Multimillionaire UKIP donor Arron Banks described this economic damage as ‘a price worth paying’ (15).  
 
Arron Banks, Boris Johnson and Nigel Farage might be rich enough to gamble their jobs on Brexit - but are you? 
 
It is quite possible that some of your friends and family will lose their jobs as a direct result of Britain leaving the EU.  Do you want to be responsible for that?
 
We took an evidence-based look at the immigration and EU issue above.  But the Leave campaign and Eurosceptic press (Express, Sun and Mail in particular) choose to paint a very different picture.  A picture which blows these statistics out of all proportion.  'Strangers in Our Own Country'  'Our borders are out of control!'.  You know the stuff I mean.  Pictures which invite us to eye our friends and neighbours with suspicion and even hostility.  Editorial which pins the blame for every problem from housing to wages to traffic to NHS waiting times on immigrants.
 
And it's not even because they don't know any better.  The leaders of the Leave campaign and the political editors of those newspapers are clever, well-educated people.  They know the facts I set out above just as well as I do.  
 
Yet instead of presenting a balanced view, they choose to deliberately whip up fear and suspicion of immigrants for their own political purposes. 
 
Shame on them.
 
Why?  Because appealing to people's basest prejudices sells newspapers and gathers votes.  Just ask Donald Trump.
 
And what greater contrast could there be between the divisive rhetoric of the leave campaign and the noble vision of the EU's founding fathers.  
 
Men who, amid the ashes of World War Two, set their national differences aside and dared - not just to dream but to build - a better Europe for us all.  
 
A Europe in which war was “not only unthinkable … but materially impossible” (16).  
 
Here’s Winston Churchill addressing the Congress of Europe in 1948:
 
“A high and a solemn responsibility rests upon us here ... If we allow ourselves to be rent and disordered by pettiness and small disputes, if we fail in clarity of view or courage in action, a priceless occasion may be cast away for ever.  But if we all pull together and pool the luck and the comradeship - and we shall need all the comradeship and not a little luck … then all the little children who are now growing up in this tormented world may find themselves not the victors nor the vanquished in the fleeting triumphs of one country over another in the bloody turmoil of … war, but the heirs of all the treasures of the past and the masters of all the science, the abundance and the glories of the future.”
 
And - against all the odds - we did it.
 
We pooled the luck and the comradeship and achieved Churchill’s vision.
 
Those “little children” are now retired – the first generation in a thousand years to grow up without the horror of war in Europe.   
 
Instead of building weapons, our scientists work together to solve the greatest problems of our age.
 
We enjoy a standard of living unimaginable to people in 1948.
 
All the cities, art, history, people, food and culture of this wonderful continent are open to us whenever we want to visit, to live or to work.  
 
Hundreds of millions of European people who until only a few decades ago were ruled by dictators or communists now enjoy democracy, human rights, the rule of law and the abundance of the free market. 
 
I think that’s worth 36 pence a day.
 
And yet here we stand, about to turn our backs on this great project, thanks to cynical newspaper owners and barefaced lies from the Leave campaign.
 
Forget what the Sun says.
 
Forget what’s good for Boris’ and Farage’s careers.  
 
Listen to every current and former British Prime Minister (17).  Every other major UK political party leader (18).  To Barack Obama, to Hillary Clinton, to Angela Merkel and a host of other world leaders (19).  To Stephen Hawking and 83% of scientists (20).  To 40 religious leaders (21).  To 300 leading historians (22).  To the Trades Union Congress and our six largest trades unions (23).  To 88% of economists (24).  To the National Farmers Union (25).  To the Chief Executive of NHS England (26), to the Royal College of Midwives (27) To British businesses of all sizes (28).
 
For there is an overwhelming consensus among experts of all kinds that Britain is stronger in Europe.
 
And what does the Leave campaign say to this?
 
 “I think people in this country have had enough of experts”   (Michael Gove, Friday 3rd June)
 
What an extraordinary response.  
 
If you were sick, you’d want to see a doctor.  If you had a plane to   fly, you’d want a pilot.  So when we have the most important political, economic and foreign policy decision of our lifetime to make I think we should listen to the people who are in the best position to evaluate what to do.  And they’re all telling us the same thing – we’re much better off in Europe.  
 
It might not be what Michael Gove wants to hear.  But it sounds like the right answer to me.
 
So when you’re in the polling station on Thursday 23rd - with that stubby little pencil in your hand –Vote Remain.
 
Not in fear, but with pride – about what we, the people of Europe, have achieved together.  
 
Not in ignorance, but with science firmly on our side.
 
And not alone, but with the greatest statesmen of the past three generations urging us on.
 
And then in years to come, when your children ask you how you voted in the referendum of 2016, you can look them in the eye and tell them you were on the right side of history.
 
Thank you for reading
 
(1) https://fullfact.org/immigration/eu-migration-and-uk/ 
(2) https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/populationestimates  
(3) http://www.migrationwatchuk.org/statistics-net-migration-statistics/#create-graph  
(4) http://www.economist.com/news/britain/21631076-rather-lot-according-new-piece-research-what-have-immigrants-ever-done-us
(5) http://cep.lse.ac.uk/pubs/download/ea019.pdf  
(6) https://fullfact.org/europe/our-eu-membership-fee-55-million/ 
(7) http://www.nhs.uk/NHSEngland/thenhs/about/Pages/overview.aspx 
(8) http://www.ifs.org.uk/uploads/publications/comms/r116.pdf 
(9) http://www.ifs.org.uk/uploads/publications/comms/r116.pdf 
(10) https://next.ft.com/content/7fa04d70-d911-11e5-a72f-1e7744c66818 
(11) https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/feb/24/brexit-could-wipe-20-percent-off-the-pound-warns-hsbc 
(12) https://next.ft.com/content/7e26d896-241c-11e6-9d4d-c11776a5124d 
(13) BBC Radio 4, 3rd June 2016; see also http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36450460 
(14) http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/i-can-t-guarantee-everyone-will-keep-their-jobs-admits-gove-7c5zttk79
(15) https://www.politicshome.com/news/europe/eu-institutions/news/73963/arron-banks-%C2%A34300-loss-price-worth-paying-brexit 
(16) http://www.robert-schuman.eu/en/declaration-of-9-may-1950 
(17) David Cameron http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/feb/24/david-cameron-launches-tory-campaign-to-stay-in-the-eu ; Gordon Brown http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/may/10/inspiring-view-britishness-defeat-brexit-isolationists; Tony Blair http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36408239; John Major http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/eureferendum/12199111/John-Major-Voting-to-leave-will-poison-Europe-and-divide-West.html 
(18) Jeremy Corbyn (Labour) http://labourlist.org/2016/04/europe-needs-to-change-but-i-am-voting-to-stay-corbyns-full-speech-on-the-eu/ Tim Farron (Lib Dem) http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3243112/Britain-impoverished-backwater-leave-EU-claims-Lib-Dem-leader-Tim-Farron.html Caroline Lucas (Green) http://europe.newsweek.com/caroline-lucas-brexit-european-referendum-425066  Nicola Sturgeon (SNP) http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/6944807/Nicola-Sturgeon-vows-to-back-argument-to-keep-Scotland-in-European-Union.html 
(19) Barack Obama http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/21/as-your-friend-let-me-tell-you-that-the-eu-makes-britain-even-gr ; Hillary Clinton http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/apr/23/hillary-clinton-britain-should-stay-in-eu Angela Merkel http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36436726; Shinzo Abe http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/05/05/japanese-prime-minister-shinzo-abe-warns-brexit-could-hit-foreig/  
(20) https://www.theguardian.com/science/2016/may/31/stephen-hawking-donald-trump-popularity-inexplicable-and-brexit-spells-disaster ; http://www.nature.com/news/scientists-say-no-to-uk-exit-from-europe-in-nature-poll-1.19636 
(21) http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/28/religious-leaders-oppose-brexit
(22) http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/25/vote-to-leave-eu-will-condemn-britain-to-irrelevance-say-historians 
(23) http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-unions-idUKKCN0V517D 
(24) http://www.itv.com/news/2016-05-29/almost-nine-in-10-economists-believe-leaving-the-eu-would-damage-the-uk-economy/ 
(25) http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/apr/18/british-farmers-uk-eu-nfu-brexit-farming 
(26) http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36353145 
(27) https://www.rcm.org.uk/news-views-and-analysis/news/royal-college-of-midwives-supports-staying-in-eu-0 
(28) http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/brexit-eu-referendum-what-will-happen-to-british-business-if-uk-votes-to-leave-a7046941.html
3 Agrees
Lynne
Lynne
08 Jun 2016 13:50

Thank you for posting that MV.

The points raised in it need getting out to the electorate URGENTLY!!!

3 Agrees
burneside
burneside
08 Jun 2016 14:11

A massive cut-and-paste of Remain propaganda.  Doesn't wash with me, Mrs C, still voting out.

2 Agrees
S
S
08 Jun 2016 14:14

Brexit is just appealing to emotion and xenophobia. Remain are guilty to some extent but built at least on some facts.

 

I find this interesting https://fullfact.org/europe/vote-leave-and-stronger-facts-leaflets/#myGallery where the full facts website have compared the Vote Leave and Stronger In leaflets. Vote Leave making things up and Stronger In stretching the truth. 

 

1 Agree
S
S
08 Jun 2016 14:16

@burneside so dismissing it all because it is a cut and paste and/or from "Mrs C"? I know there is no changing your mind but maybe others who are still unsure reading this forum. It isn't all about you :-D

3 Agrees
burneside
burneside
08 Jun 2016 14:34

A lot of that cut'n'paste job is opinion and utter bilge, just a comfort read for the Remainiacs.

S
S
08 Jun 2016 14:35

I agree some is opinion not all

roberta
roberta
08 Jun 2016 15:11

Nothing from any group will persuade me, Imvoting out and made my mind up 41yrs ago

1 Agree
Morty Vicker
Morty Vicker
08 Jun 2016 15:14

@burneside

 

Which lot of it is "utter bilge" please. 

1 Agree
DJ
DJ
08 Jun 2016 15:31

Well I have a postal vote and I've already voted - so the goods news with that is that I can skip all the endless stuff about it on the radio, TV and newspapers and just get on.  Job done. 

 

1 Agree
S
S
08 Jun 2016 15:35

@roberta did you vote in the 1975 referendum and voted no?

burneside
burneside
08 Jun 2016 15:51

I'd say the majority, Mrs C.  

The whole immigration bollocks for a start... "can you tell the difference between 81 and 82 people".  Net immigration is increasing the population equivalent to a city the size of Coventry every year.  Totally unsustainable.

"Turkey nowhere nearing joining the EU", but in fact is being fast-tracked to have visa-free travel in Schengen, which in effect is an open door to the whole of the EU.

Reeling off a list of the great and the good who want us to Remain - I don't give a toss for their opinion.

"In years to come you can look your children and in eye" and tell them you voted the right way - didn't Cameron say something very similar on the Sky Q&A last week.  

I think you get the gist.

1 Agree
roberta
roberta
08 Jun 2016 16:09

S yes I did, listened to Tony Benn and Roy Jenkins on Jeremy Vine show today and how civilised an exchange it was. My opinion then is the same now I didnt want to jointhe Common Market and in 1975 votedagainst our continued membership, even tho I was Labour and supportedthe party under Harold Wilson.

1 Agree
Morty Vicker
Morty Vicker
08 Jun 2016 16:16

@burneside

 

So what you meant to write was that you disagreed with a few of the points being made. That's not quite same as "a lot of it being utter bilge".  

burneside
burneside
08 Jun 2016 16:36

No, Mrs C, I disagree with most of what was wrote.

Gary Taylor
Gary Taylor
08 Jun 2016 18:06

Stirring stuff Morty.

 

People have been asking for passion from the Remainers and here we have it. And a narrative that supports the passion with the facts. 

 

...Vote Remain. 

 

Not in fear, but with pride – about what we, the people of Europe, have achieved together.  

 

Not in ignorance, but with science firmly on our side.

 
And not alone, but with the greatest statesmen of the past three generations urging us on.

 

I shall look out for this on Facebook and share it. A great find - thank you.

 

PS Here's the link:

http://members3.boardhost.com/marionsboard/msg/1465412551.html

1 Agree
Gary Taylor
Gary Taylor
08 Jun 2016 18:37

Voter registration has now been extended until midnight on Thursday.

 

Get registering, get voting! Please share and tag those that have not been able to register.

 

https://www.gov.uk/register-to-vote

 

burneside
burneside
08 Jun 2016 20:22

Why is Cameron so afraid of debate?

So far all we have seen is Cameron doing highly-staged Q&A sessions across the country with employees of Remain-friendly companies.  

This Q&A format has been tediously transferred onto television, and all we hear are carefully rehearsed answers to questions that were never asked in the first place. Is he so unsure of his case that he is too frit to debate head-to-head with his counterparts on the Leave side?  It's not as though they haven't asked (repeatedly) that he should do so.  We will get to the end of this campaign and Cameron will not have debated once in public.  

The man is a disgrace to democracy.

 

2 Agrees
Lynne
Lynne
08 Jun 2016 22:36

Power Monkeys. channel 4 

Gary Taylor
Gary Taylor
08 Jun 2016 23:09

Tory MP for Totnes, Dr Sarah Wollaston, has quit the campaign to leave the EU and will vote for Remain instead, she told the BBC.

Dr Wollaston, chairman of the health select committee, said Vote Leave's claim that Brexit would free up £350m a week for the NHS "simply isn't true".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36485464

1 Agree
Lynne
Lynne
09 Jun 2016 09:22

'eard the latest conspiracy theory?

Sarah Wollaston was a plant in the Brexit camp 'cos she's always been a Remainer.

Go check the websites if you don't believe me.

Paul
Paul
09 Jun 2016 09:39

Who? Oh, no body. Just an MP trying to grab some air time, well there's something new.

The remain camp keep saying we are better off in, so we can change the EU from the inside. 

well hasn't happened in the last forty years. if we vote in now it will much worse, as @burneside says.

Let's free ourselves from this nightmare and promote Great Britain on equal terms with the rest of The World and not as Germany's poor relation.

 

OUT.

5 Agrees
Lynne
Lynne
09 Jun 2016 09:52

Who she? Well she's a GP and she also chairs the House of Commons Health select committee.

So I'd say she's got a good knowledge of the NHS. 

IN

2 Agrees
burneside
burneside
09 Jun 2016 10:59

And yet Wollaston was happy to support the Leave campaign for some considerable time.  She sounds rather dim-witted if the penny has only just dropped that she was on, what she now considers to be, the wrong side.

OUT

 

2 Agrees
Gary Taylor
Gary Taylor
09 Jun 2016 11:37

MP Dr Sarah Wollaston was in the Brexit camp because she was critical of David Cameron's performance in gaining concessions from the EU. If anyone is dim-witted it is our Prime Minister, who set himself up for a fall by raising expectations of successful negotiations - but then returning with a basket half-empty.

 

But the referendum issue is much wider than a leadership popularity contest - and far more important. She now feels she is unable to support a campaign that does not tell the truth about the monies going to the EU - and what we get in return.

 

A straw in the wind, perhaps?

2 Agrees
Morty Vicker
Morty Vicker
09 Jun 2016 12:14

Got to love a conspiracy theory!

 

SHAKE IT ALL ABOUT. 

burneside
burneside
09 Jun 2016 13:31

President of the EU Commission, Jean-Claude Juncker says Britain doesn't need the EU

http://news.sky.com/story/1569562/did-juncker-say-britain-does-not-need-the-eu

Well, there are rumours that the man apparently has cognac for breakfast, so maybe it is a case of in vino veritas?

 

 

1 Agree
roberta
roberta
09 Jun 2016 14:38

http://order-order.com/2016/06/08/europes-biggest-investor-brexit-good-for-eu/

Gary Taylor
Gary Taylor
09 Jun 2016 14:47

If Dr Sarah Wollaston was party to a 'conspiracy' you would have thought the MP for Totnes would have had her Damascene moment long before the postal votes came out.

 

Despite such tardiness, her ability to weigh up both sides of an argument and to come to a ration decision has led to her today being proposed as a suitable replacement for the Health Secretary, Jeremy Hunt. But, while it is helpful that she has exposed the lie that there would be a Brexit "dividend" (referring instead to the "financial penalty" the country would face in such circumstances) she has yet to acknowledge the untold benefits that immigration has provided in maintaining services within the NHS over the years.

 

Whether or not such an admission will be forthcoming, many will be hoping this late conversion will enable the Remain campaign now to get over the line. It is going to be a very interesting two weeks...

 

 

Paul
Paul
09 Jun 2016 17:07

If we vote out Scotland will vote for independence. I seriously doubt they would risk it.

They would lose thousands of jobs, have to practically start from scratch and of course they can't actually afford to.

More lies from the in camp. The choise is simple - 

OUT

5 Agrees
Gary Taylor
Gary Taylor
10 Jun 2016 08:15
 

. says people and services are hurting because of austerity politics, not immigrants.

 

Whether you are a fan of Eddie Izzard or not, you cannot question his dirve to get the message across that we are better off in Europe.
A marathon whistle stop pro-Remain tour of the country - and plenty left in the tank for one of the biggest bun fights in QT history!
 

 

burneside
burneside
10 Jun 2016 10:03

Izzard was off his face on QT last night, his hysterical behaviour was a total embarrassment. Quite rightly, the audience lost its patience with him and shut him down.  If the Remain camp think this man(?) is an asset to their cause then they are truly badly mistaken.  I imagine after his dire performance last night, Izzard managed to convert a fair few undecideds into Brexit supporters.

1 Agree
Gary Taylor
Gary Taylor
10 Jun 2016 10:09

Perhaps. But Farage, with his lips to the dog whistle, will have done much to persuade many to the Remain camp. 

Gary Taylor
Gary Taylor
10 Jun 2016 10:11

But if it's cool, calm reason you are seeking, try this Dail Mail columnist:

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36495983

S
S
10 Jun 2016 10:13

Don't do that, don't do man (?) you idiot. Not letting that go. You can question his ideas and insult them but don't insult his choice to dress and live how he wants.

 

 

3 Agrees
Morty Vicker
Morty Vicker
10 Jun 2016 10:18

vile, vicious and hypocritical comments from @burneside

 

When Farage get called out by his audience it's called heckling and a conspiracy by the Ukippers. Yet they're on here saying that it's ok if it's the other way round. The Abandon campaign has lost their grip on reality. 

burneside
burneside
10 Jun 2016 10:27

@S

Last I heard Izzard was describing himself as a "male lesbian".  Really? WTF.

Gary Taylor
Gary Taylor
10 Jun 2016 10:45

The last time I heard Izzard describing himself, Burneside, was as someone who is 109 years old but with the mind of a perpetual 22 year old.

 

Painting such pictures with words (often in three languages) makes him the great thinker and artist that he is. IMO.

 

#StandUpForEurope

1 Agree
burneside
burneside
10 Jun 2016 10:49

No, it just makes him sound rather deranged.

2 Agrees
S
S
10 Jun 2016 10:59

He can call himself whatever he likes but you can't

1 Agree
burneside
burneside
10 Jun 2016 11:16

Of course, Izzard can call himself anything he likes, he's still a deranged buffoon though.

2 Agrees
Gary Taylor
Gary Taylor
10 Jun 2016 11:22

Isn't this where we came in?

 

Image result for trump boris images

1 Agree
S
S
10 Jun 2016 11:40

Just don't do man (?) as you look like the buffoon. Not acceptable.

1 Agree
burneside
burneside
10 Jun 2016 11:46

I will say what the hell I like, who made you the thought police?

3 Agrees
S
S
10 Jun 2016 12:25

Me. When you comment with stupid question marks about how a person lives their life, how they dress etc then I won't sit back and let it go. 

1 Agree
burneside
burneside
10 Jun 2016 12:38

Izzard describes himself as a "male lesbian".  Clearly he cannot be both, hence the (?) was entirely justified.  Where did I pass comment about his dress?  You are just making this shit up now.

1 Agree
S
S
10 Jun 2016 12:44

You didn't say  "male lesbian (?)" though you said "man (?)". What was that question mark for then?

1 Agree
burneside
burneside
10 Jun 2016 12:46

Because I'm confused, Izzard says he is a male, and also a lesbian.  Is that even possible?

1 Agree
Mcjrpc
Mcjrpc
10 Jun 2016 12:51

You're never confused burneside.  I knew exactly what you meant. 

2 Agrees
S
S
10 Jun 2016 13:01

You didn't mentioned the male lesbian thing until after I questioned the man (?). 

 

People can identify as anything they like as long as it doesn't affect other people.

 

Eddie is a feminine man, who like to dress femininely sometimes and who is attracted to women, which is why he described himself as Male Lesbian ... not difficult to understand really.

 

2 Agrees
burneside
burneside
10 Jun 2016 13:24

So basically he is straight man who likes to put on a frock, and still fancies the lasses.

2 Agrees
burneside
burneside
10 Jun 2016 16:30

Electoral Commission rules that Ryanair has not spent more than £10k promoting Remain and therefore not broken EU referendum rules 

http://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/i-am-a/journalist/electoral-commission-media-centre/news-releases-donations/electoral-commission-statement-on-assessment-of-ryanair-spending-on-eu-referendum-campaigning

It has been alleged that Ryanair spent £19k on pro-Remain adverts, and has rebranded an aircraft exterior with the Remain slogan, and yet the EC still maintains Ryanair has not broken any rules.  Along with Cameron's £9.2million propaganda leaflet drop, it just shows how this referendum has been rigged right from the start to favour Remain.

 

6 Agrees
Gary Taylor
Gary Taylor
12 Jun 2016 21:52

You heard it here first...

 

keep calm remain queen style 1 round sticker r1036db698a974cbc8d18116a4b2c43d0 v9waf 8byvr 324

burneside
burneside
13 Jun 2016 00:53

This weekend, police in South Wales have attempted to disrupt the democratic process by silencing Vote Leave campaigns across the region.  There are also reports from Twitter that the police in Plymouth were adopting the same tactic.  The Remain campaign stalls were not targeted.  This is what passes for democracy in the UK these days, and it's absolutely bloody sickening.

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/06/12/video-uk-police-attempt-close-leave-street-stalls-leaving-remain-campaigners/

 

4 Agrees
Gary Taylor
Gary Taylor
13 Jun 2016 01:46

Funnily enough, Burneside, someone blew the whistle on cross-party Remain campaigners here in Dawlish last weekend.

 

Who would have thought it. Leafleting without due care and attention.

b.o.liking
b.o.liking
13 Jun 2016 10:05

Is there nothing more spiteful than our prime minister threatening OAP's over the pensions being 

reduced if people vote to leave.I would think a lot of pensioners already worried about making ends meet, has now 

to worry about this. Not us Cameron to have a lot of monies left in a will by a rich father or marrying into a wealthy

circle. You Mr Cameron are a spitful nasty evil little Sh_t. Wonder how the day after the result he is going square the 

circle with the population. Reduce my pension If you must, but my country comes first.

7 Agrees
Brooklyn Bridge
Brooklyn Bridge
13 Jun 2016 10:26

This scaremongering directed at Senior Citizens stating that pensions being reduced if the vote to leave prevails is the lowest of the low.

I wonder how those people that want to remain feel about this uncalled threat to our elderly.

6 Agrees
Gary Taylor
Gary Taylor
13 Jun 2016 10:56

As I expect you will know Brooklyn Bridge, I am no great fan of David Cameron and - although most experts agree that the finacial difficulties Brexit will bring will lead to some pain - I believe this has been a clumsy intervention. What it does do however is put the Government pension plate-spinning trick in the spotlight. There is no magic 'HMG pension pot' - it is the tax and NI of our younger working generations that pay for those in retirement. Take away opportunities for our economy to grow and thrive and a reduction in pensions could inevitably face us all.

S
S
13 Jun 2016 11:18

Both sides are scaremongering. Cameron is indeed vile as are most Tories (Ann Marie Morris how did anyone vote for this creature?). They wouldn't know truth and fact if it smacked them in the face.

 

This does not change the fact if you vote leave you will still have a Tory government and we will still be in Europe for around the next 2 years. No instant out. Even if we do save money coming out, you are still trusting a Tory party to deliver those saving to the right areas. They don't do that with the 99% of the revenue they get now why do you think the extra 1% will make a difference suddenly?

 

Some leading Tories want to scrap the European Human Rights Act and that will be one of the first things they will work to remove. That will impact low income families and those who need help the most but will affect everyone's rights.

 

Working within a united Europe is better than shrinking back to our little island.

 

 

 

 

3 Agrees
b.o.liking
b.o.liking
13 Jun 2016 11:18

I can only say in defence of being a pensioner is that over 52 years of working, these bloody governments good or bad 

have taken my taxes and NI. without any exception. So i think I deserve from the democratic way this

country is run to vote the way I wish without threat from the PM.

 

4 Agrees
burneside
burneside
13 Jun 2016 12:04

The Remain side variously describe our country as either an insignificant little island, or one that is so powerful our departure from the EU will cause war and recession.  They can't have it both ways.

2 Agrees
S
S
13 Jun 2016 12:21

I didn't say insignificant little island but it is a little islander attitude - "we are ok on our own"

burneside
burneside
13 Jun 2016 12:27

Was I talking about you, in particular?

We are an island nation, that is what has formed us and our outlook over centuries, you cannot get away from that.  We have still managed to be pretty damned successful, I would say.

1 Agree
burneside
burneside
13 Jun 2016 12:37

And here we have another scare story hot off the press:

 

BREXIT COULD THREATEN WESTERN POLITICAL CIVILIZATION

If Britons vote to leave the European Union in a June 23 referendum it could be the beginning of the end for the 28-nation bloc and for western political civilization more generally, European Council President Donald Tusk said.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-tusk-idUSKCN0YZ0Q9

 

How much more hysterical is all this going to get before the 23rd?

1 Agree
S
S
13 Jun 2016 12:47

@burneside over the centuries? the world moves on. we owned half the world centuries acquired by dubious means, we have moved on. just because we are on island nation doesn't mean that is where we should stay.

 

Why do you keep pointing out the scaremongering from the remain and not the leave?

S
S
13 Jun 2016 13:20

Watching a bit of the #EUREFSW debate on the BBC last night and it was so depressing. Ann Marie Morris is a vile woman, how she got voted in I will never know. She just kept shouting at Justin, who I thought handled her very well.

 

No of them can debate an issue without shouting or constructing straw men!!

1 Agree
b.o.liking
b.o.liking
13 Jun 2016 13:21

If anyone thinks the E.U.will stop a war in Europe I think someone must have thier head up their Ar-e.

Russia if they feel threatened by an expanding  EU on their borders will simply invade and the rub is

there will be no united front as proved with Crimea. If all the countries in Europe were to join the EU

then all that has been achieved is another tier of undemocratic government.

 

2 Agrees
Paul
Paul
13 Jun 2016 13:33

Idiot Cameron can say what he likes, won't make a blind bit of difference.

It is obvious we are voting out and this has been the case all along.

4 Agrees
S
S
13 Jun 2016 13:47

Obviously, it doesn't matter what is said to convince them otherwise there are people who have already made up their minds to vote leave.

 

Voting to leave will help the rise of the right, and scarily the far right, in this country. I have confidence that the country won't let that happen and we will vote to remain.

1 Agree
webmaster
webmaster
14 Jun 2016 00:44
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