General Discussion
Our Prime Minister has made us out to be unable to cope without the E.U.Well when we sh-t on and turned our back on the commonwealth
no one told us we were to be governed by a dictatorships. We were sold a Common market not a federal state of Europe.
Very true Burneside. And with failings too:
Stephen Hawking has said that he fails to understand the popularity of Donald Trump, the presumptive US Republican presidential candidate.
ITV’s Good Morning Britain asked the man who has widened the world’s understanding of time, space, stars, galaxies and black holes if he could explain the popular appeal of the billionaire tycoon.
“I can’t. He’s a demagogue who seems to appeal to the lowest common denominator.”
But on the other hand:
His latest return to referendum politics is less of a surprise: many of Britain’s most senior scientists have backed the remain campaign.
“Gone are the days when we could stand on our own, against the world,” he said on the television breakfast show. “We need to be part of a larger group of nations, both for our security and our trade. The possibility of our leaving the EU has already led to a sharp fall in the pound, because the markets judge that it will damage our economy.”
So you think that somebody who looks at the stars is an authority on EU matters? More fool you. I certainly won't be taking any advice from Hawking.
No idea, but I don't think she can be any worse than Hawking, who arrogantly thinks he knows it all.
@burneside you are really calling hawking arrogant? he has never come across has arrogant or is he arrogant because he disagrees with you?
I don't agree with saying he must be right and the remain campaign is right because he says so.
I have watched both Gove and Johnson interviewed recently and neither could answer a question straight because they just don't know what will happen if we leave the EU. No promises of money "saved" going to certain areas is going to happen without the Government saying so and the key people want to say in.
Gove was even asked about migration from non-EU, that we have complete control of, and why we don't reduce that, he just changed the subject on EU migrants again. I don't trust the majority of MPs but really don't trust Gove or Johnson to stick to anything they saying (although that isn't much).
The amount we send to the EU is 0.023% of the revenue of the UK, small percentage. What we get back is worth it. That is the equivalent of £4.60 a year if you were to pay that percentage out of a £20,000 salary.
@burneside - hawking is more than someone that looks at the stars! clearly you don't understand anything about his work!
You make our EU contributions sound like mere pocket money (£13-£18bn p.a., depending who you believe). But for me it is far more than money, it is the fact that over the years various governments have signed away our sovereignty, and I sincerely hope on June 23rd the people reclaim it.
Oh, and I still stand by my opinion of Hawking.
I actually do not believe your figure, I think you need to do some better research. But even if I did accept that figure, it is still eight billion too much.
https://fullfact.org/europe/membership-fee-eu/
You are right it could be anything between £8-15 billion :-)
I was basing on a few reports saying we pay £161million a week but one source was the BBC which is a little less reliable to be unbias this days.
Still stand by my statement that it is worth it being in the EU and Hawking :-)
On the issue of immigration.
Just supposing we Vote to Leave.
Will there be barbed wire all along the border and passport control check points between Northern Ireland and the Republic?
I mean, we couldn't have an open land border could we otherwise we would leave ourselves wide open
(literally) to illegal immigrants to the UK accessing the UK via the ROI.
"Och aye. I dinnae ken wither tae vote in or oot."
If Trump, Johnson, Gove, Duncan-Smith, Farage and Burneside all think we should vote out, then it's obvious which way any sensible person should cast their vote. In my opinion.
Yet another poll shows the Remain camp are failing to convince the public that we should stay in the EU. With only a couple of weeks to go before the referendum this is disastrous news for Cameron, Brexit now seems increasingly likely.
POLL GIVES BREXIT CAMPAIGN LEAD OF THREE PERCENTAGE POINTS
The leave campaign has picked up momentum and taken a three-point lead over remain in the latest Observer/Opinium poll on the EU referendum. The Brexiters now stand on 43%, while 40% say they support the campaign to keep the UK in the union.
The poll suggests the remain camp has lost four percentage points in the last two weeks, during which Boris Johnson and Michael Gove have relentlessly campaigned on the theme of immigration.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/04/poll-eu-brexit-lead-opinium?CMP=share_btn_tw
And on the question of 'all these immigrants taking our jobs".
Some points:
1. So, immigrants are working then. So not on the dole then.
2. Paying taxes as well, thereby contributing to the cost of public services
3. And..... if there are jobs, which immigrants are doing, why aren't the indigenous Brits doing these jobs? On the tv the other day I saw a young man, I'll put him in his mid-20s, who said he would be voting out as he hadn't had a job since he left school and that was because all the immigrants take all the jobs. Well, first off immigrants don't take all the jobs, do they? and secondly, and as I haver already observed, if there are jobs to be taken why haven't the indigenous Brits taken them?
If it is skilled work then maybe the Brits don't have the skills, but if it is unskilled work............?
The leave campaign does seem to more active that the Remain side. Leave are still spouting their lies, opinions and propaganda. I cringe when you do hear from the Remain campaign and they do the same thing!
As said by Neil deGrasse Tyson, an American Astrophysicist, on Twitter "In any election, there are only ever two kinds of voters: those who are informed and those who are not."
UK Contribution to EU
I keep reading in this extraordinary long forum about how much we (the UK) pay the EU every Day/Week/Month/Year.
Has anybody mentioned exactly how much we get back?
I wait for your abuse and false manipulated figures.
Because it is hard to give a figure for. Anyone who does is purely speculating.
£161m we pay is after the money we get back through funding and the rebate. That is what we know.
Now we make money being in the EU due to free trade etc but that figure is finger in the air stuff.
How can being charged £161M a week be described as 'free trade'?
What we do know is that the EU is made up mostly of loser countries, all leeches. We are far better off out.
The trade won't change, it's simply lies. Do you really think German companies such as BMW will suddenly think, "I know, let's stop selling our cars to Britain".
The EU doesn't nothing for the UK. Have France or Germany ever been on our side? No never, currently they are acking all nice as they need us to stay in to help pay for the Euro currency failure.
Cameron deal is meaningless, if we voted in, France and Germany will immediately switch back to being selfish gits and we would be constantly fighting the EU as we have done for the last 40 years.
Well enough is enough, let's get out of this ruddy nightmare. Trade with the world as we want, get rid of these leeches that have never been fair and get at minimum £700M a month.
OUT
According to OBR forecasts, in the next five years the UK’s average net contribution will be around £9.6 billion per year while the average annual rebate should be around £5 billion.
To get a sense of the magnitude of those numbers we can say that in 2014-15 UK public spending was £735 billion. The total EU public expenditure in the same year was around £118 billion meaning that the 2015 UK public expenditure was over six times more than the whole of the EU’s expenditure.
All this implies that compared to the overall value of the UK-EU economic relationship, the UK contribution to the EU budget is quite a small number.
From: http://theconversation.com/the-uks-eu-rebate-explained-58019
Well that makes a lot of sense. £5 billion is a small number. Think what we could do with that?
'UK-EU economic relationship' - just a complete rip off.
@Lynne i have tried to point out how small our contribution is compared to revenue but people still think we can save the nhs with this money if we aren't in the eu. which is rubbish because you trusting mps like gove to spend it on the right services. the reason the nhs is underfunded is because the government chose to not because we are sending money to the eu. this is assuming we actually going to save any money coming out because it will take time and money to extract ourselves and set up new trade deals etc
There are things that need to be addressed within the EU and we need reforms but don't throw out the good with the bad by coming out.
I don't think anything is going to persuade the OUTers on here that staying in makes the best political and economic sense so just hoping we have more sense to vote IN as a country.
Because it does not make sense. You seem to have placed the EU as some sort of mythical helper, when it has only ever been a hindrance.
What is so great about the EU?
And don't forget the EU should have published details of its intended new budget at the end of May, but has deliberately held off until after the referendum, you have to ask yourself why it has done this. Should we vote to remain, it is impossible to project with any certainty what we will be paying into the EU over the next few years.
Remember that surprise £1.7bn bill we were presented with in autumn 2014, because our economy was judged to have performed better than expected? Cameron blustered he would refuse to pay, but of course he did. At the same time Germany and France both received refunds in the region of £800million. We are being taken for mugs by the EU.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/oct/24/david-cameron-in-dark-eu-bill-2bn-george-osborne
I'm not saying the EU is perfect, it is far from it. The EU needs major reforms and these will take time but removing ourselves for very little gain if any at all is not the answer.
And concerning that EU bill, it should have been expected as it is linked to our economy. If we do well then we pay more. The Tories knew that so it is bollocks it was unexpected, they could have worked it out.
The "unexpected" bill also took into account black earnings such as drug dealing and prostitution, how on earth are those kind of figures supposed to be reliably calculated? And what a wonderful club we belong to, that thinks they should be included. I expect they wanted to charge VAT on them too.
@S in reply to your posting 07 june 2016 10:42hrs -
For each of your points you made I could state a negative to each, not that I can be arsed.
The E.U. non elected governing body lives in a fantasy world. Where there new rules and reg's are forced down the throats of member states that are in no position to adopt them without significant impact to their social and economic structure.
I would agree that some of the rules and reg's are meant to assist in the fair and safe working environments, but we all know that a lot of employers ignore these changes. If, as an employee, you speak out/report these employers you end up getting the boot.
The only party who is fully behind exiting the E.U. is the one party who will lose the most.
If after 40 years of absolute carnage to our laws, borders. fishing/farming communities and unchecked mass immigration you cannot see the wood for the trees !
As to the human rights you remark on the E.U. forced changes have been used extensively by many groups to stay in our country against the wishes of good sense and prisoner's to claim compensation, in the millions of £ in relation to their living conditions.
I will be voting out, but you know the governemnt will not allow us to leave and the end result of the vote will be to stay in by 1 or 2 percent.
You really think UKIP will lose out? They think they have a chance to run the country, that is the ultimate plan. If Farage had any principles he wouldn't be an MEP in the first place as he's so strongly disagrees with it.
You can't blame the EU for employers not doing what they are meant to.
The conspiracy theory that remain will win anyway is ridiculous.
The black economy being included is an international standard adopted by EU states.
@S. remember bsi s kite mark, english law, h&s is over 200 years old, eu susides is our money anyway, etc.
You are trying to say that without the EU we wouldn't have any of these.
It would be great if the EU worked and benefitted all members, sadly it does not.
The EU is beyond fixing, if we vote in it will just get worse, no option other than to vote OUT.
So the black economy, which is totally tax free to its users, is included in GDP figures which results in law-abiding citizens having to pay yet even more tax.
Have we fallen through the looking-glass?
It needs fixing and we can't do that if we aren't in it. We can't keep blaming the EU for everything like the people blame the immigrants for all their problems. Despite the rubbish spoken and written the government are still in control the country.
We need a better government and that won't change if we are in or out. UKIP is not the ****ing answer either. Nothing good has ever come from far right groups!
I hope for once a conspiracy theory is right and we do remain though ;-)
@burneside I agree not sure why we would include the black economy. This is not an EU initiative but an international standard. this would only boost a corrupt government's GDP surely?
France go to the polls next year to elect their next president and Madam Le Pen currently enjoys 58% of the poll. Her first policy will be an EU in or Out referendum which of course will be out given the current state of the country.
If Germany oust Merkel as well the EU is finished. So if we vote in it will be us Sweden the eastern block and Turkey left to pick up the pieces.
The only sensible and secure way to keep Britain a credible nation is to vote Leave on the 23rd. Take no notice of the wannabe polititions that just want to jump on the EU gravy train in order to line their own pockets.
Turkey aren't getting into the EU anytime soon.
If Le Pen wins then France is screwed and I suggest we build a wall ...
Time to hear from a neutral on the subject?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MsNXmfqQqOU
Brexit the Movie - a Swiss reply
Best get some pre-Brexit stocks in, Paul. You won't like what the exchange rate will do for the price of your favourite tipple if we leave...
@GT - Yes, hasn't the pound been falling because the market is getting wobbly about there being a Brexit vote?
Isent that another tatic being led by CaMoron and his banker mates. They control the bank of England and the stock markets so can in effect easily manipulate the value of the pound.
@S, yes, but i'm just pointing out that the conspiracy won't happen. so you can happily
celebrate our independence.
How refreshing. A Brexiter that does not believe in a conspiracy theory.
Or is that only if we vote in favour of cutting ourselves adrift?
A quite astonishing story how EU leaders have been muzzled, and the EU Commission has gone into virtual lockdown until after the referendum.
WHY EU LEADERS AREN'T DEBATING BREXIT
David Cameron has asked EU leaders to keep out of the Brexit debate as milions of British citizens prepare to vote on their future in the European Union.
The muzzling has led to political paralysis in Brussels.
One thing is certain, if Remain win the vote, come June 24th there is going to be a whole heap of shit coming our way from Brussels.
The reason conspiracy theories don't have any substance is because once you work out how many people would need to be involved in keeping the secret you realise it is very unlikely.
We don't have a Commonwealth anymore.
We just about have a Navy.
Same for the Air Force.
Army being depleted.
Forces relying more on Volunteers.
How will we (the UK) defend ourselves?
If the Argies invade the Falklands, we could always counter attack in rowing boats while throwing rocks at them.
What will happen if the UK was attacked?
Will our friends in Europe (who we rejected if voting out) come to our aid?
Or even A Merry Car, will they help us?
We can only wait and see.
@S - to all your bluster you only have to look at Greece to see an example of the e.u's blind greed to
build a superpower they command at the expense of common, no pun intended, sense.
Just wait for the more primitive ex Soviet block countries to join over the next decade
or so and then you will see crime in this country escalate to a new high.
Below is a link to Greece's current debt, which stands at a smidge below 400 billion euro's,
twice there gdp.
http://www.nationaldebtclocks.org/debtclock/greece
OUT, OUT, OUT is that clear enough for you.
I fail to see what Brexit has to do with our military capability, we have no defence pact with the EU, we get that security from our membership of NATO and have done since 1949. Although, Germany is pressing for the creation of a single EU army, that is one of the many things which is being kept under wraps until after June 23rd.
As for asking if "our friends in Europe" would come to our aid if needed, don't ever forget that during the Falklands conflict the French were supplying the Argies with technical expertise for the Exocet missiles they had sold to them. You'd think they would have been a bit more grateful after we saved their arses in the Second World War.
@Purrrrrfect the UK's debt is over 80% of its GDP (http://www.nationaldebtclocks.org/debtclock/unitedkingdom) and that isn't because of the EU although I am sure it will be claimed it is.
What a shambles last nights debate was. Farage was heckled not being able to answer questions put to him during the allocted time for each question. Cameron on the other hand was allowed the time and more to answer question many of which he carefully ovoided. It was very obvious that the audience been selected to barage Frarage ( excuse the pun ) ...... Now we hear the website for people to register had gone down, this my friends is the start of the stich up and i feel that the vote will in some way be fixed for the IN party.
Absolutely right S.
Successive UK Government's have grappled with our national debt - but it is growing still. Cutting ties with our closest economic partners will be ruinous to the very trade we are relying on to extricate us from this fiscal black hole.
Even BoJo admits to a short term shock to the economy following Brexit - but offers no guarantee things would get better. Without a concrete way forward (other than the saving of the money paid to the EU - which in any case is dwarfed by the value of the additional trade we enjoy) confidence will desert the inward investment the country needs, thus starting us on a steep and slippery slope to further recession.
Like the one Switzerland had (see above) - but probably a lot worse.
I note that in today's Gazette, Central Devon Tory MP Mel Stride makes the case for why he believes many strong Eurosceptics will come to the rational decision that we are better off voting to remain in the EU.
I'm not often drawn to his column, however he offers this: "... the choice on the ballot paper doesn't ask whether the EU is perfect, how flawed it is or whether we love it or not - rather it asks whether our country will be better off staying within or saying farewell".
What a shame such sound reasoning is not to be heard from our own MP.
Not sure if anyone saw this last night http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b07g8t71/jack-dees-helpdesk-referendum-2016-episode-1 but I thought it was very funny. It helped that I liked everyone on the "panel" but good to have a light-hearted programme about the referendum.
I think there may have been a little laughing at Brexiters due to the panel make-up :-)
I've just read this on Facebook:
Thank you for posting that MV.
The points raised in it need getting out to the electorate URGENTLY!!!
A massive cut-and-paste of Remain propaganda. Doesn't wash with me, Mrs C, still voting out.
Brexit is just appealing to emotion and xenophobia. Remain are guilty to some extent but built at least on some facts.
I find this interesting https://fullfact.org/europe/vote-leave-and-stronger-facts-leaflets/#myGallery where the full facts website have compared the Vote Leave and Stronger In leaflets. Vote Leave making things up and Stronger In stretching the truth.
@burneside so dismissing it all because it is a cut and paste and/or from "Mrs C"? I know there is no changing your mind but maybe others who are still unsure reading this forum. It isn't all about you :-D
Well I have a postal vote and I've already voted - so the goods news with that is that I can skip all the endless stuff about it on the radio, TV and newspapers and just get on. Job done.
I'd say the majority, Mrs C.
The whole immigration bollocks for a start... "can you tell the difference between 81 and 82 people". Net immigration is increasing the population equivalent to a city the size of Coventry every year. Totally unsustainable.
"Turkey nowhere nearing joining the EU", but in fact is being fast-tracked to have visa-free travel in Schengen, which in effect is an open door to the whole of the EU.
Reeling off a list of the great and the good who want us to Remain - I don't give a toss for their opinion.
"In years to come you can look your children and in eye" and tell them you voted the right way - didn't Cameron say something very similar on the Sky Q&A last week.
I think you get the gist.
S yes I did, listened to Tony Benn and Roy Jenkins on Jeremy Vine show today and how civilised an exchange it was. My opinion then is the same now I didnt want to jointhe Common Market and in 1975 votedagainst our continued membership, even tho I was Labour and supportedthe party under Harold Wilson.
So what you meant to write was that you disagreed with a few of the points being made. That's not quite same as "a lot of it being utter bilge".
Stirring stuff Morty.
People have been asking for passion from the Remainers and here we have it. And a narrative that supports the passion with the facts.
...Vote Remain.
Not in fear, but with pride – about what we, the people of Europe, have achieved together.
Not in ignorance, but with science firmly on our side.
I shall look out for this on Facebook and share it. A great find - thank you.
PS Here's the link:
http://members3.boardhost.com/marionsboard/msg/1465412551.html
Voter registration has now been extended until midnight on Thursday.
Get registering, get voting! Please share and tag those that have not been able to register.
https://www.gov.uk/register-to-vote
Why is Cameron so afraid of debate?
So far all we have seen is Cameron doing highly-staged Q&A sessions across the country with employees of Remain-friendly companies.
This Q&A format has been tediously transferred onto television, and all we hear are carefully rehearsed answers to questions that were never asked in the first place. Is he so unsure of his case that he is too frit to debate head-to-head with his counterparts on the Leave side? It's not as though they haven't asked (repeatedly) that he should do so. We will get to the end of this campaign and Cameron will not have debated once in public.
The man is a disgrace to democracy.
Tory MP for Totnes, Dr Sarah Wollaston, has quit the campaign to leave the EU and will vote for Remain instead, she told the BBC.
Dr Wollaston, chairman of the health select committee, said Vote Leave's claim that Brexit would free up £350m a week for the NHS "simply isn't true".
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36485464
'eard the latest conspiracy theory?
Sarah Wollaston was a plant in the Brexit camp 'cos she's always been a Remainer.
Go check the websites if you don't believe me.
Who? Oh, no body. Just an MP trying to grab some air time, well there's something new.
The remain camp keep saying we are better off in, so we can change the EU from the inside.
well hasn't happened in the last forty years. if we vote in now it will much worse, as @burneside says.
Let's free ourselves from this nightmare and promote Great Britain on equal terms with the rest of The World and not as Germany's poor relation.
OUT.
Who she? Well she's a GP and she also chairs the House of Commons Health select committee.
So I'd say she's got a good knowledge of the NHS.
IN
And yet Wollaston was happy to support the Leave campaign for some considerable time. She sounds rather dim-witted if the penny has only just dropped that she was on, what she now considers to be, the wrong side.
OUT
MP Dr Sarah Wollaston was in the Brexit camp because she was critical of David Cameron's performance in gaining concessions from the EU. If anyone is dim-witted it is our Prime Minister, who set himself up for a fall by raising expectations of successful negotiations - but then returning with a basket half-empty.
But the referendum issue is much wider than a leadership popularity contest - and far more important. She now feels she is unable to support a campaign that does not tell the truth about the monies going to the EU - and what we get in return.
A straw in the wind, perhaps?
President of the EU Commission, Jean-Claude Juncker says Britain doesn't need the EU
http://news.sky.com/story/1569562/did-juncker-say-britain-does-not-need-the-eu
Well, there are rumours that the man apparently has cognac for breakfast, so maybe it is a case of in vino veritas?
If Dr Sarah Wollaston was party to a 'conspiracy' you would have thought the MP for Totnes would have had her Damascene moment long before the postal votes came out.
Despite such tardiness, her ability to weigh up both sides of an argument and to come to a ration decision has led to her today being proposed as a suitable replacement for the Health Secretary, Jeremy Hunt. But, while it is helpful that she has exposed the lie that there would be a Brexit "dividend" (referring instead to the "financial penalty" the country would face in such circumstances) she has yet to acknowledge the untold benefits that immigration has provided in maintaining services within the NHS over the years.
Whether or not such an admission will be forthcoming, many will be hoping this late conversion will enable the Remain campaign now to get over the line. It is going to be a very interesting two weeks...
If we vote out Scotland will vote for independence. I seriously doubt they would risk it.
They would lose thousands of jobs, have to practically start from scratch and of course they can't actually afford to.
More lies from the in camp. The choise is simple -
OUT
.@EddieIzzard says people and services are hurting because of austerity politics, not immigrants. #bbcqt
Izzard was off his face on QT last night, his hysterical behaviour was a total embarrassment. Quite rightly, the audience lost its patience with him and shut him down. If the Remain camp think this man(?) is an asset to their cause then they are truly badly mistaken. I imagine after his dire performance last night, Izzard managed to convert a fair few undecideds into Brexit supporters.
Perhaps. But Farage, with his lips to the dog whistle, will have done much to persuade many to the Remain camp.
Don't do that, don't do man (?) you idiot. Not letting that go. You can question his ideas and insult them but don't insult his choice to dress and live how he wants.
vile, vicious and hypocritical comments from @burneside
When Farage get called out by his audience it's called heckling and a conspiracy by the Ukippers. Yet they're on here saying that it's ok if it's the other way round. The Abandon campaign has lost their grip on reality.
The last time I heard Izzard describing himself, Burneside, was as someone who is 109 years old but with the mind of a perpetual 22 year old.
Painting such pictures with words (often in three languages) makes him the great thinker and artist that he is. IMO.
#StandUpForEurope
Of course, Izzard can call himself anything he likes, he's still a deranged buffoon though.
Me. When you comment with stupid question marks about how a person lives their life, how they dress etc then I won't sit back and let it go.
Izzard describes himself as a "male lesbian". Clearly he cannot be both, hence the (?) was entirely justified. Where did I pass comment about his dress? You are just making this shit up now.
You didn't say "male lesbian (?)" though you said "man (?)". What was that question mark for then?
You didn't mentioned the male lesbian thing until after I questioned the man (?).
People can identify as anything they like as long as it doesn't affect other people.
Eddie is a feminine man, who like to dress femininely sometimes and who is attracted to women, which is why he described himself as Male Lesbian ... not difficult to understand really.
Electoral Commission rules that Ryanair has not spent more than £10k promoting Remain and therefore not broken EU referendum rules
It has been alleged that Ryanair spent £19k on pro-Remain adverts, and has rebranded an aircraft exterior with the Remain slogan, and yet the EC still maintains Ryanair has not broken any rules. Along with Cameron's £9.2million propaganda leaflet drop, it just shows how this referendum has been rigged right from the start to favour Remain.
This weekend, police in South Wales have attempted to disrupt the democratic process by silencing Vote Leave campaigns across the region. There are also reports from Twitter that the police in Plymouth were adopting the same tactic. The Remain campaign stalls were not targeted. This is what passes for democracy in the UK these days, and it's absolutely bloody sickening.
Funnily enough, Burneside, someone blew the whistle on cross-party Remain campaigners here in Dawlish last weekend.
Who would have thought it. Leafleting without due care and attention.
Is there nothing more spiteful than our prime minister threatening OAP's over the pensions being
reduced if people vote to leave.I would think a lot of pensioners already worried about making ends meet, has now
to worry about this. Not us Cameron to have a lot of monies left in a will by a rich father or marrying into a wealthy
circle. You Mr Cameron are a spitful nasty evil little Sh_t. Wonder how the day after the result he is going square the
circle with the population. Reduce my pension If you must, but my country comes first.
This scaremongering directed at Senior Citizens stating that pensions being reduced if the vote to leave prevails is the lowest of the low.
I wonder how those people that want to remain feel about this uncalled threat to our elderly.
As I expect you will know Brooklyn Bridge, I am no great fan of David Cameron and - although most experts agree that the finacial difficulties Brexit will bring will lead to some pain - I believe this has been a clumsy intervention. What it does do however is put the Government pension plate-spinning trick in the spotlight. There is no magic 'HMG pension pot' - it is the tax and NI of our younger working generations that pay for those in retirement. Take away opportunities for our economy to grow and thrive and a reduction in pensions could inevitably face us all.
Both sides are scaremongering. Cameron is indeed vile as are most Tories (Ann Marie Morris how did anyone vote for this creature?). They wouldn't know truth and fact if it smacked them in the face.
This does not change the fact if you vote leave you will still have a Tory government and we will still be in Europe for around the next 2 years. No instant out. Even if we do save money coming out, you are still trusting a Tory party to deliver those saving to the right areas. They don't do that with the 99% of the revenue they get now why do you think the extra 1% will make a difference suddenly?
Some leading Tories want to scrap the European Human Rights Act and that will be one of the first things they will work to remove. That will impact low income families and those who need help the most but will affect everyone's rights.
Working within a united Europe is better than shrinking back to our little island.
I can only say in defence of being a pensioner is that over 52 years of working, these bloody governments good or bad
have taken my taxes and NI. without any exception. So i think I deserve from the democratic way this
country is run to vote the way I wish without threat from the PM.
The Remain side variously describe our country as either an insignificant little island, or one that is so powerful our departure from the EU will cause war and recession. They can't have it both ways.
I didn't say insignificant little island but it is a little islander attitude - "we are ok on our own"
Was I talking about you, in particular?
We are an island nation, that is what has formed us and our outlook over centuries, you cannot get away from that. We have still managed to be pretty damned successful, I would say.
And here we have another scare story hot off the press:
BREXIT COULD THREATEN WESTERN POLITICAL CIVILIZATION
If Britons vote to leave the European Union in a June 23 referendum it could be the beginning of the end for the 28-nation bloc and for western political civilization more generally, European Council President Donald Tusk said.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-tusk-idUSKCN0YZ0Q9
How much more hysterical is all this going to get before the 23rd?
@burneside over the centuries? the world moves on. we owned half the world centuries acquired by dubious means, we have moved on. just because we are on island nation doesn't mean that is where we should stay.
Why do you keep pointing out the scaremongering from the remain and not the leave?
Watching a bit of the #EUREFSW debate on the BBC last night and it was so depressing. Ann Marie Morris is a vile woman, how she got voted in I will never know. She just kept shouting at Justin, who I thought handled her very well.
No of them can debate an issue without shouting or constructing straw men!!
If anyone thinks the E.U.will stop a war in Europe I think someone must have thier head up their Ar-e.
Russia if they feel threatened by an expanding EU on their borders will simply invade and the rub is
there will be no united front as proved with Crimea. If all the countries in Europe were to join the EU
then all that has been achieved is another tier of undemocratic government.
Idiot Cameron can say what he likes, won't make a blind bit of difference.
It is obvious we are voting out and this has been the case all along.
Obviously, it doesn't matter what is said to convince them otherwise there are people who have already made up their minds to vote leave.
Voting to leave will help the rise of the right, and scarily the far right, in this country. I have confidence that the country won't let that happen and we will vote to remain.
This thread has been closed.