Dawlish Discussion

Well, well. Who'd have thunk it! Look what's just turned up in my e-mail in-box.

On Friday 5th June 2015, Teignbridge District Council will be hosting a Community Composting Open Day at Old Forde House, Newton Abbot between 11am and 3pm.

We would like to invite representatives from community groups, who may have an interest in finding out more about setting up a community compost scheme in their town or village to join us.  We would be very grateful if you would kindly circulate this invitation to all members of your respective community groups.

The format of the day will be as follows:

11am to 1.30pm, Old Forde House, Newton Abbot:

·         Introduction to community composting by Ben Bryant, Teignbridge Recycling Officer

·         Presentation by Nicky Scott, Director of Devon Community Compost Network and composting expert

·         Workshops to cover key topics including finding a site, gaining permissions, income streams & diversification, how best to compost on a big scale... and more

·         Lunch will be provided

2pm to 3pm, Forches Cross, Newton Abbot:

·         Site visit to a working community compost scheme.  Tour led by Eric Mahy, Go Green Devon

There will also be an opportunity to visit the ‘Chudleigh Rotters’ at their community composting site at Tower Hill Allotments in Chudleigh on Saturday 6th June 2015, between 10am and 12pm. The ‘Rotters’ will be on site to show you around and share their experiences.

Spaces are limited for both events so if you’d like to attend either one or both of these events, please register your interest by replying to this email by Monday 18th May 2015.

Email: ben.bryant@teignbridge.gov.uk

Tel: 01626 215842

Fax: 01626 334882  

Great opportunity!

Sounds alright. It was my original post, I'll send an email.

It wasn't your original post.

Which post are you referring to Huw Matthews? The 'Green Waste No Such thing' was my post. That is the post I refer to.

I'm sure mine's not the first post on Green waste. I joined 2 days ago.

Maybe Lynne refers to a different post altogether.

Maybe I got it wrong.

Who cares?

I'm not sure why Huw Matthews got so upset, and his post seemed rather petty. As did some of his previous posts referring to my views as being 'bollocks' and suggesting I need to see a Doctor.

So is that how to be taken seriously on this site Mr Gary Taylor?

In any case I referred to my own thread about Green Waste. I never claimed to be the first one to have ever brought up the subject on here.

And when I wrote 'who cares' I meant who cares who brought it up,is it really important who said what first? Obviously it is to some of you. I did not mean  'who cares about composting'.

Maybe Lynne was referring to Huw Matthews post on the 24th May or maybe my post from the last couple of days. Does it really matter?

And perhaps I'd like to take what from here? Idiot.

I agree with HuwMatthews2.

Doctor, heal thyself.

Gary Taylor

There's  a familiar ring to Doc.

@elvis presley, agree.

@Doc, this is not looking too good. You've only been on the site for 3 days and have already insulted several other members and breached the terms of the website. Before you continue to post, please read over the terms and please stick to them.

https://www.dawlish.com/home/terms

I fail to see how not having known about all previous threads and posts regarding composting/green waste and then mistakenly thinking mine was an original post can be interpreted as an insult.

Aside from referring to Soul of Dawlish as an idiot, how else I insulted anyone?

He might need thicker skin in politics.

Webmaster, please delete my account.

@Huw Matthews, if my claim to having originally posted about Green Waste stole your thunder it was not my intention. And for what it's worth I apologize.

@Doc, which is it to be? Do you want to continue posting (within the terms of the site) or do you want me to close your account?

Close my account, that was just an apology to Huw Matthews before I left which probably offended someone, somehow. This is my last post. Go ahead and delete my account.

I'm just going to break my Dawlish.com Diet (only posting on Wednesdays) this once, by saying that it's a shame that Doc has been bullied off this site as he/her made some very valid (albeit too long-winded for me) points. 

And if you want to be taken seriously on this site, you'll first need to get your facts straight. 

Yes, let's have a fight over who was first to post about community composting.

@Gary Taylor, I think you're the last person to be the self-appointed arbiter of credibility on this site.   As soon as you put yourself up for election you used the Warren Farm thread to spout your party politics, all under a 'cowardly cloak of anonymity'.    You'd still be doing it now if the penny hadn't dropped.

MCjcrp pot kettle black!! 

Keep up Margaret, they were his words not mine, which is why they were in inverted commas. 

@webmaster - is this forum meant to be for lively debate or is it just for some people to have a go at others?

I ask because HuwMatthews can tell someone their opinion is 'bollocks' but Doc calling someone an 'idiot' is a capital offence.   Likewise there's barely a post by Margaret Swift that isn't unpleasant, yet they go unmoderated.  

I didn't recognise Doc as being an alter ego, no one on this forum has posted so comprehensively on green issues.  That's not my thing but it was interesting reading and it's a shame he/she was ganged up on.  Fine if it's your game/your rules/your favourites but personally I prefer something that's being moderated more fairly.   

For what it's worth I can handle the insults (and I've been called plenty worse on the doorstep) and yes, it is good to have reasoned debate about green matters. Doc was shown a yellow card (which seems to have been a popular decision by Webmaster) but he decided to walk, rather than play within the rules. That is his prerogative, but it is a pity as the environment is an important issue that affects us all.

I would welcome reading more from this contributor if he/she decides to rejoin us.

Gary Taylor 

 @A Frame, yes the forum is meant to be for lively debate. Doc asked me to close his account. I just asked him to stick to the terms.

@webmaster - thanks for the reply. You haven't asked others to stick to the terms though. You stepped in with doc over one infringement on an informative topic (when he himself had already been insulted) but you let others continue with worse.   just wanting to know if it's a level playing field.

It's interesting that A Frame cites challenging others as being unpleasant! 

@mjcrp, and you don't post under a cowardly cloak of anonymity? 

@A Frame, I have asked others to stick to the terms on several occasions. Disagreeing with someone is not the same as calling someone an idiot. I would like to emphasise though that this forum would be much better for everyone if everyone refrained from the personal taunts and gibes.

Oh Dear! Have just come back on this and it seems an unholy row has broken out.

For the record I did not insult the person 'Doc', I merely said that what he had written was 'b*llocks'. That is different to calling a 'person' an idiot.

I rather hoped he would defend his position and substantiate what he had written.

I apologise to anyone offended by my use of the term 'b*llocks' when obviously I was attempting floccinaucinihilipilification of what he had written as opposed to the type of person he is. I won't do it again. Sorry.

As for his post re Community Composting. Having been roundly condemned (along with the rest of you all) for destroying the planet, I wanted Doc to understand that we are all quite capable of 'going green' without being preached at by a 'Green'. This was why I pointed out that it was not his 'original post'. I don't see why he thought I 'got so upset' when this was mentioned - I really didn't!

nasty business, makes deciding who not to vote for easier

Thanks for explaining the difference between 'idiot' and 'bollocks'.

What a load of bollocks.

Idiot' synonym; 'Liberal Democrat'

'Bollocks' - talked a lot of by Liberal Democrats and biased adjudicators.

'Bollocks' synonym; 'Balls'. Something evidently lacking in certain Liberal Democrats.

I hope that helps

@A Frame, I'm sorry you think it's bollocks. Understanding the difference is crucial for healthy debate. Not understanding the difference is why some members cannot have a healthy, heated debate without resorting to name-calling and insults.

You misunderstand webmaster, some of us believe that you do not understand the difference, have little comprehension of what healthy debate consists of and turn a blind eye to those who you share similar views with.

You still haven't explained the difference, it would be good to do so, so we can understand the rules better and avoid further confusion and conflict.

The ball is in your court umpire...

Taking issue with the ref? Going for the man not the ball?

I think we know what team we are playing.

Gary Taylor

said the 'Soul of Dawlish'.. You know exactly who's on your team. are you actually Webmaster?

I have taken issue with the ref and the 'Soul of Dawlish', bullying and bias in general.

I don't know who is being referred to by 'man'?

@Brenda,

I have offered an olive branch to contributor Doc, but so far he has chosen not to respond.

Now if you would excuse me, this idiot has some last minute leafleting to do - prior to a very busy day tomorrow.

Are you prepared to shake virtual hands with me before the contest?

Gary Taylor

@Brenda. i'd say that the webmaster is a good man. in fact he's flamin-grate.

@SoulofDawlish, Doc can't post unless I reinstate his account or he signs up again because I closed his account at his request.

@Brenda, I'm not claiming to be a perfect moderator, which is why I only close accounts as a last resort or if someone asks me to. The rules are in the terms. Calling someone an idiot falls under "flaming other members...".

I don't think I know anyone who uses this site - if I do I don't recognise them from their pen-names.

I seem to remember being called 'a troll' on here sometime back. It didn't cause this much fuss - infact not a comment was made!

I didn't complain to the poster or the moderator as I couldn't care less what people think of me and more importantly what I write. If I did I wouldn't put any of it in the public domain for others to take apart - using my own name aswell.

For the record - I think webmaster does a good job here................and I don't vote LibDem(????)

@ Soul Of Dawlish.

Sorry but no I can't virtually shake your hand. And I felt your olive branch to Doc was a hollow gesture, but I do understand that by admitting you were wrong would be political suicide, so it is a game you have to play. 

Doc exposed flaws and inconsistencies in the Liberal Democrats supposed policies and questioned their integrity as have I. But I understand that as a team you are wise to avoid engaging in such debates and maybe you whole heartedly believe that the Liberal Democrats are part of the solution.

On this matter we're poles apart. I believe that they are part of the problem along with the Tories, Labour, UKIP, I'm not saying the Greens are perfect and I doubt they'll win.

But morally I cannot vote tactically for the Lib Dems. Even to defeat the Tories. Especially after giving us a Tory led government. But even if they hadn't then morally I cannot vote for parties that continue a political system and economic dead end model that benefits the few and is forcing more people into poverty and rapes our planet's natural resources as if they were limitless.

That is why I'm voting Green, I have some complaints about them, but they most closely resemble my values and world view.

I'm voting Green because by doing so my conscience is clear, I'll be able to face future generations without hanging my head in shame.

I'll vote Green because I give a damn about something more than myself, and about something much bigger than Dawlish.

I'll vote Green knowing that for the next 5. 10, 15 years or more things may get worse. But things are pretty desperate now anyway. Both environmentally and socially and personally, my lot is far from great. I'm not well off and green issues are not a hobby for me.

And maybe they have to get worse before they get better. I'm against excessive housing developments on green sites just like most people on here and I want affordable homes, but not just any homes, ones that don't use energy intensive materials, transport and supply lines that use more fossil fuels that we can imagine and create 35% of all national waste. But under any of the main parties that is what we get. And the need is not being met anyway, Affordable homes being built cannot compete with the number that need them, that is true under the coalition government and under New Labour pre 2010.

New homes are built predominantly for those who aleady have a home and can afford a new one.

It is just about making money circulate in order to kickstart a construct (the economy)that benefits the few; corrupt bankers, corrupt politicians, oligarchs, corporations that care only for profit and not people and communities such as ours and care less for the environment. Only in terms of what can be exploited or extracted from it. Corpoare construction is part of the corporate world, it has little to do with meeting basic human needs, it is about, shareholders and profit.

So whether I vote for a fringe party or a mainstream one this stupid idea that economic growth equates to progress and well-being and that it can be sustained at current levels without screwing up the planet for present and future generations and all other life is absolutely crazy and it won't change in the short-term.

But that crazy idea is what everyone believes.

The Liberal Democrats would claim they can stop or limit housing, they cannot offer any real guarantees to Mr Weeks at Warren Farm and in any case if they prioritize economic recovery that is intrinsically linked to wha are termed key sectors such as construction then if it isn't Mr Week's land it could be someone else's in the Dawlish area or maybe in Teignmouth or another part of Devon or the UK. there perhaps another 7000 or so will sign a similar petition and perhaps another set of Liberal Democrats or another party will run a similar campaign. Perhaps the same campaign woud be necessary in dawlish a few years doen the line for someone else.

And what about other people who wish to provide for their kids and who don't have a business or land of their sons and daughters?

the Lib Dems are not basing their campaign on any families on benefits.

But how could they campaign against austerity it is too close to home for the Liberal Democrats.

I feel for Mr weeks but the campaign is only relevent to the middle classes.

It's all so futile when you step back and see the bigger picture that is neoliberalism.

In my opinion all the parties should just form one big one and call it the Neoliberal party, instead of having blue, red, yellow and purple versions, the SNP and Plaid Cymru could be included in that, some factions of the Green party too.

And within this system are career politicians, climbing a ladder for what? Kudos, a larger salary? At whose expense? At the expense of people I care about, people in my community, the natural world we depend upon.

So morally I cannot vote for people who I cannot respect as their actions either in Westminster or their local communities are not deserving of respect. In particular I refer to Richard younger Ross and Martin Wrigley of the Liberal Democrats as well as you (Gary Taylor), given your conduct on here, but also Anne-marie Morris of the Tories and the majority of TDC.

that is based on knowledge in the public domain, expenses and local knowledge which I won't disclose here.

And maybe you think Doc's behaviour was as bad or worse, or I don't have the moral high ground here.

But at least i can admit to being an irritant and a meddlesome bitch some of the time, but if I choose to bring someone down a peg or two they more than likely deserve it. My moral compass is not broken.

It gives me no satisfaction knowing that my vote won't count for very much in the 2015 election.

But I have to cast that vote in the hope that it will contribute to breaking an unjust first past the post, two party system that repesents this £$ rather than what matters.

As that system could be sustained by the Liberal democrats for another 5 years I can only hope that by 2020, 2025.. or at some point people will begin to wake up.

We're just very different people Mr Taylor, and if you and your party were to get into power and prove me wrong that I'd quiet happily change my views. It isn't going to happen though.

The evidence shows that Western democratic countries that dominate the UN and if you read Monbiot and others, are manipulated by corporations, cannot act effectively on environmantal and social sustainability matters. and the situation has got worse not better despite more scientific and technological knowledge, academic research, numerous summits, policies, targets, whereas big business and corporations have not been regulated, in fact they're out of control. When it comes to the Earth Summits, democracy, eradicating poverty, education, protecting biodiversity and world peace are all secondary concerns compared to appeasing global corporations and multinational banks. Take the last example and the UK arms indusrty, trident, etc and mainstream party's policies on nuclear weapons.

But the liberal deomocratic tradition in this country and other Western nations based on the rights of the individual and those individual's property rights gave rise to neoliberalism which is all about self and not about collective well-being, the common good and it commodifies nature, rather than perceiving it as our support system. It puts a price on everything and knows the value of nothing. This is widely used to describe the Tories but is applies to Labour, Lib Dems, UKIP.

So liberal democracies like ours and part of the problem.

You wrote previously that environmental issues are important.

No, they are fundamantal. When does a social issue become and environmntal issue. And vice versa. Why don't we recognise that economic growth correlates with environmental loss?

And that environmental ecosystems cannot be replaced or 'offset' and that they are linked to sustaining all life, not just human beings?

Environmental issues are just an add on to mainstream parties like yours, who are incapable of holistic thinking and confined by short-termism.

Environmental issues become relevant to your party in order to win votes, such as the letter from the BBC wildlife programme presenter.

It wouldn't surprise me if some of my text reappeared in some of your future campaigns, Wrigley and Bloomfield have both taken credit for a bus shelter that Cockwood Residents Association were involved with but it was two villagers who actually did all the spade work.    . But despite political cuckoos, environmentalism in any mainstream party will be little more than marketing and spin.

Fundamentally parties such as yours which all offer different colour tones of neoloiberlaism or Thatcherism can never seriously tackle problems arising from what is increasingly becoming an unpredictable planet because of humanity's industrial recklessness and obsession with economic growth and GDP.

So the stakes are too high to shake hands as if we're both on a level playing field. I represent the periphery, the marginalised, the green, the republican, the authentic democrat, not a property owner or a high earner or someone with a decent pension.

You just represent a narrow section of society who are concerned for a narrow section of what the world is really about, themsleves, their family and what they perceive is good for Dawlish.

But I will draw the line there as we are all members of this community and I may want you to represent my views should you be elected. and I would hope that the above essay (well it is) would help you to understand an opponents view point. So despite no virtual handshake, I will give you a break as the polling stations will soon be open and enough has been said.

Goodnight.

B

 Wow and then I question why I rarely post

Coming back to composting, I'm planning to go to the Teignbridge Community Composting session on 5th June so I'll report back here.  Anyone else going as well?

Neilh if a Dawlish group need a home for their waste.
I need 80 tonnes of soil, happy to receive any compostable products except food waste.

Grass, leaves, horse muck, soil, sand, tree/hedge clippings

You live on a coastal flood plain and you're going to raise your home above sea level??

seriously though this is good, community working.

No Brenda the soil in between some of the trees at the bottom of our garden has washed away and we need to top it back up, had 72 tonnes in already and we can now start to see the results hopefully another 80 tonnes should be enough.