Dawlish Discussion

Okay folks before you all have a go I know I've posted about this before (only yesterday in fact) but that post is lost somewhere on one of the threads and as I think this info is important I've decided to make it very clear for all (including me) just where it is. So here's the info again. Please pass on to those who will be affected. There are a lot of people 'out there' still not too sure just how much the new state pension will be and who are under the illusion that whatever the amount is they will be getting the full whack as some form of compensation for having their state retirement age delayed by quite a few years. A reading of the links below show that ain't necessarily so.  

 https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/310231/spa-timetable.pdf

https://www.gov.uk/new-state-pension/overview

https://www.saga.co.uk/money/pensions-and-savings/2014/state-pension-who-will-get-what-in-the-new-flat-rate.aspx?pid=mn

Contact the Future Pension Centre by phone.

They will take your details and call you back within 7 days.

Inside the UK

Future Pension Centre helpline
Telephone: 0845 3000 168
Telephone: 0345 3000 168

Textphone: 0845 3000 169
Textphone: 0345 3000 169

Monday to Friday, 8am to 6pm

Addendum: have just phoned the Future Pension Cenre helpline number. They can't give any info out yet (don't you just love it!). Should be able to give out info for those within 5 years of state retirement age (see my first link above for that info) in September/October of this year. So......try again then. But note, the person I spoke with did make a point of mentioning the having been contracted out issue and that if I had been contracted out (which I have been) then this would reduce my state pension. Just idly wondering how many others of my age group that will impact on..............     

and here's another link worth having a read of (and the comments beneath it)

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/pensions/article-2634215/Why-millions-WONT-155-new-state-pension-theyre-expecting.html

I (we?) would really appreciate it if anyone reading this who has a knowledge of the pensions system can confirm what I am writing/suggest answers to the questions I am posing.

Present System

1. The present basic state pension for a single person is £113.10

2. It can then be topped up via Pension Credit to £148.35.

3. Being awarded pension credit can be a passport to other benefits such as HB and Council Tax Reduction.

4. So..........via Pension Credit those on the basic state pension of £113.10 per week are actually on £148.35 + per week? 

5.To be eligible for this basic state pension an individual has to have paid in 30 years worth of NI contributions. (What happens if they haven't paid in the full number of years? Do they still get the full pension credit top up to £148.35?)

6. Being of state pension age brings with it other benefits such as the bus pass, winter fuel payment, tv licence payment.  

Is that correct?

New System   

1. The basic state pension for a single person wef April 2016 will be, let's say. £155 per week.

2. Pension credit will be scrapped as will the state second pension .

3. If pension credit is scrapped does it follow that the other benefits to which it can presently lead will also be scrapped such housing benefit and council tax reduction?

4. Will all other age related benefits which are presently tied into the state pension age also be scrapped such as free bus passes, winter fuel allowance, tv licences etc?

5. To be eligible for this new pension an individual has to have paid in 35 years worth of full NI contributions.  

6. Not all however will receive the full amount of £155 per week as it will be reduced pro rata per week depending on the number of years the pensioner concerned was contracted out into a works/private pension thus not having paid the full NI stamp.

6. But someone, say, who has never been in paid employment for all their adult life (and that could be a full time carer as well as someone who has signed on the dole for 35+ years) will be deemed to have paid the full stamp for the 35 years and will thus get the £155 per week?

7. So, someone who has worked for 35+ years may well not be eligible for this new state pension as they will have amounts deducted for having paid into a private pension scheme. Also no entitlement to any age related benefits (eg bus pass, winter fuel payment) as all these will be scrapped?

8. And if the pensioner is a woman the age for which they are eligible for this new state pension will have risen rapidly from age 60 to age 66 (depending on when they were born).

Is that correct?

Lynne, the new system will not effect todays pensioners.  It will only effect tommorrows pensioners.  And the amount will be £144 a week based on I believe 35 years of contributions.

Todays existing pensioners will still get the basic State pension and be means tested for handouts care of Pensions Credit.

I know the new system will not effect those who are already of state pension age just as I know that whatever they are getting now they will continue to get. I've already stated elsewhere that this new system is for those who will reach state retirement age from 6th April 2016. 

I am trying to work out the difference (financially) between what those on the present system get and what those on the 2016+ system might get. 

The amount of £144 per week was the amount originally quoted back some two years or so ago when all this was first mooted. Figures of between £150-£155 per week wef the new system in April 2016 now being quoted.

With apologies Lynne.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/pensions/11036468/Steve-Webb-New-state-pension-will-treat-women-as-adults-in-their-own-right.html

Spin!

On the subject (had to go careful there nearly wrote the word 'subjugation') of women. Where to start?

1. It turns out he is talking about future.  How long in the future? Is he seriously suggesting that a present day 19 year old woman will be subject to the same state pension system when she is old as the one he will be implementing in 2016?

2. And just at what age will  presently aged 19 year old women (and men for that matter) qualify for their state pension when they are old? 70? 75? older?

3. Oops! in (2) above I've just begged the question that such a thing as a state pension will exist when our young people reach old age. Silly, silly, silly, me.

4. So let's talk about more mature women shall we? Those presently aged late 50s/early60s. I know not all men earn fantastic salaries but, on the whole, women earn less then men and this poverty then follows them into old age as, even if they have contributed to a workplace pension scheme, they will have earnt less, made smaller pension contributions and therefore get smaller private pensions. However, and on top of all this, it now seems that as they paid into a workplace scheme and therefore didn't pay the right type of NI stamp towards this new pension system they will now also get a smaller state pension as, under the new rules, those missing contributions will mean a deduction in the amount of state pension they get. And, and, those very same women have had their state age pension date mega shooted up the scale from age 60 to age 66+ so will have lost out on up to 6 years worth of (present system) state pension.  

Lynne, your caught up in statitics, stick to the basics.  We all need to retire at 60, we all need to have our NI contributions fund us all a decent State pension in retirement.  The State must pay out, and whatever else we might have gained personally, is no businbess of government, so the means test needs to be abolished.

The basics is that there is a lot of ripping off going on by this government and in specific relation to the new pension system it is women of the late 50/early60 aged group who are about to be ripped off the most! 

Lynne, our elderly people were ripped off by Thatcher in the 80's over 30 years ago in 1980, when she reduced the basic State pension by stopping the State pension increasing with British prosperity.  What everybody is suffering from now is the same right wing dogma.  

I believe the people of Britain have a duty toward our WW2 veterans, because without their efforts and sacrifies in the past probably none of us would be here today.

If the country had stood behind our elderly people in the 1980's when all this was going on, but hardly covered by the BBC, maybe just maybe we would not be in the situation we are today via this coalition and its pension proposals in 2016. ???

But we are where we are. And whilst I may not disagree one jot with much of what you write it does not alter  the truth of  my statement regarding late 50s/early 60s aged women and this new pension system. 

Lynne, are the new pensions proposals set in stone ?, ie couldnt another Government change them ?

Oh yes I'm sure another governemnt could change them, and no doubt over the passage of time another government will change them though my cynicism tells me it will not necessarily be to the benefit of the state pensioner. And the fact that the state pension system can be changed is why Steve Webb's (Coalition's Lib Dem Pension Minister) claim that the system will be of benefit to women in the future is a load of baloney because by the time the women he has in mind get to state pension age no doubt the system will have been changed (again).

The trouble is that the right wing dont believe in the State pension, and neither does Lib-Dem Steve Webb.

It is utter bullony all this garbage about an ever againing population, it is hog wash.

The reality is that the right wing dont want to pay a better State pension, they would prefer spending more money on a subserviant means test system under the guize of targing the poorest pensioners when no pensioner in this country should be poor having paid into the system all their working lives and/or bringing up a family.

and just to point out the blooming obvious which is.............the more money you have/higher the private pension you have the less impact these changes will have on your finances. In other words, it is those lower down the socio-economic pile who will feel the impact of the changes to the state pension age/amount so much more than those at the top.

Sorry, just felt an overwhelming need to make that point.

An' another thing. This having been a carer and getting NI stamps attributed to the carer business which according to Steve Webb will help women when it comes to claiming their state pension. How will that operate then? I mean, I know that has been going on for women who have been claiming child benefit and that makes it easy for the NI contributions to be made to the correct person. But what about other carers doing other forms of caring, like elderly parents for example? Those who are carers but who don't register on 'the system' as official carers? See what I'm getting at? Those women for example, who have grandma duties/elderly parent duties - or even both of those at the same time which is most definitely not unknown! What about those women then?

Lynn, you dont have to point out the blooming obvious, even though you felt an overwhelming need to.

All, and what I know is that we decent a decent State pension in this country for men and woman aged 60.

But the right wing politicians we have had for over 30 years in this country have easily managed not only to divide us, but to also put each other at each others throats.

Meanwhile I am trying to find out how much carers are paid in Europe ?

Watch this space!

FAO Kenny

You still read the posts on this website? Ask as I seem to remember your mentioning a few years back that in your working life your speciality was pensions. Is that right?

If so, can you take a butchers at the comments in the two links below concerning opting out, inflation linking, guaranteed minimum pension and the new single tier pension that will come into effect 6th April 2016.

I'm picking up that there is a potential problem (ie inflation linking that presently takes place under the present scheme will not necessarily be taking place under the new scheme and that therefore new state pensioners wef 6.4.16  'who opted out' will lose out with regard to this inflation linked part of their state pension.) 

Can you explain in lay terms for us please?

Many thanks

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/possible_problems_with_triple_lo

http://www.independent.co.uk/money/pensions/losers-who-never-knewin-the-switch-to-singletierpensions-9052425.html  

This is what I am talking about (extract from the info found from the link I gave in my second posting on this thread).  

"a further sting in these changes for private sector employees who were contracted out of Serps between 1978 and 1998.

At that time, final-salary schemes had to provide a so-called guaranteed minimum pension that promised at least the same benefits as Serps.

The inflation increases on this guaranteed part of their pension were partly or wholly funded by the Government.

But for those retiring after April 5, 2016, the Government will no longer pay these increases. Assuming someone started with a guaranteed pension of £100 a week, over a 20-year retirement, this person could be left £16,000 worse off. 

This assumes their pension would  have risen at a modest rate of inflation of 2.2 per cent.

The inflation changes are complex, but they mean that guaranteed minimum pension accumulated between 1978 and 1988 won’t increase at all in  the future. 

That earned between 1988 and 1997 may only  receive part of any inflation increase.

When Money Mail contacted the Department for Work and Pensions, it claimed it had never actually paid these inflation increases and the belief stems from ‘an over-simplification’. Yet we have obtained Government statements and leaflets published over many years which state time and time again that it does pay these inflation increases. 

Pensions expert Ros Altmann says: ‘When people contracted out they knew they were giving up rights to an additional state pension. 

‘But now the rules are being retrospectively changed to remove inflation protection, decades after they made the decision — and, in some cases, not long before they retire.’" 

more info http://www.ageuk.org.uk/money-matters/pensions/what-the-new-state-pension-reforms-mean-for-you/

Lynne, thank you so much for this information. I am one of those women affected by the changes so I have found it all really very useful.

No probs Margaret. I only wish there was nothing to post on the matter........... 

All I ask is that the info I put on here is disseminated as wide and as far and to as many as possible who will be affected by the new scheme. I believe many are presently in blissful ignorance of the fact that they ain't gonna be getting the full £155 per week or whatever it turns out to be once they, age wise, qualify for their state pension.  

more info about who will get what and why wef the new single state pension 6.4.16.

http://www.pensionsadvisoryservice.org.uk/state-pensions/what-you-might-get

from the above (SPA = State Pension Age)

The present state pension system will be replaced with a simpler one. The starting value will be set above the basic level of means-tested support, £148.35 in today's money. 

You will be required to have 35 qualifying years' of national insurance contributions or credits to get the full amount. If you do not have the full 35 years you will get a pro-rata amount, provided you meet the new 10 year minimum qualifying period. 

There are transitional provisions for those who have built up qualifying years or credits prior to 6 April 2016, to ensure that you will not receive a lower pension amount than you would have received under the previous system rules. 

At 6 April 2006 all the elements of your state pension will be consolidated into a single amount, the foundation amount. When you reach state pension age your figures will be calculated under the system. These figures will then be compared with the foundation amount, the higher of these two figures will be paid. 

The pension will be reduced if you contracted out of the additional state pension, to reflect the fact that you paid lower NI contributions whilst you were contracted out. You will be able to increase your pension up to the full level, at the rate of 1/35th of the full rate (£4.23 to the nearest penny) for each additional qualifying year. 

Those reaching their state pension age after 6 April 2016 can be split into four groups: 

·         Individuals who have the necessary 35 qualifying years, who have not been contracted out, who have only accrued a small amount of additional state pension - will have a foundation amount which is equal to the single-tier pension.  

·         Younger individuals, with fewer qualifying years, or older people who have spent many years contracted out of the additional state pension - may have a foundation amount which is less than the full level of the single-tier pension. These people will be able to increase their single-tier pension up to the full level, at the rate of 1/35th of the full rate (£4.23 to the nearest penny) for each additional qualifying year.  

·         Older individuals with many qualifying years, and who have not contracted out and have accrued a good additional state pension - Individuals with a foundation amount which is more than the full level of the single-tier pension. These peoples' foundation amount will be higher than the full single-tier weekly amount. They will receive a top up known as the 'protected payment'. The protected payment will be increased before state pension age and in payment by the rise in prices. They will not build up any further state pension from April 2016. 

·         Individuals whose National Insurance record is all accrued after 6 April 2016will have their whole pension calculated on the new single-tier system."  

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/pensions/10896342/One-million-pre-retirees-to-receive-less-than-155-flat-rate-state-pension.html

Hi Lynne

I will check for you I haven't had any different figures to the £144.  Those who have SERPS or similar will have no increases until the pensioners on the new rate meet their level.   My understanding was that  every person who went on to pension status would receive the new amount. Pension credit would disappear altogether. 

Okey doke - here's an update.

Have just phoned the pensions helpline (see my first post). They can't give exact state pension predictions yet but....... they can send out an example of what you would have got under the present system compared to what you could be getting under the new system. 

If you phone them make sure you have your NI number to hand as you will be asked for it. 

I asked for a breakdown of my NI years (ie number of years contracted in and number of years contracted out). This is important info as it will impact on the amount of state pension I will get. They couldn't give me that info either but referred me to the Contracted Out Helpline 0300 200 3507. Was told that this helpline should be able to give me info regarding all the different contracted out pension schemes I had been in, date started, dated ended etc. That should give me some idea of the number of contracted in vs contracted out years I have accrued.

I asked about buying back 'missing' years. Was told this cannot take place until 2016 at the earliest but that the years that I will be able to be buy back if I so wished would start from 2007. 

Hope this info is of use to other late 50/early 60 year olds.

(PS Person I spoke to said I was a breath of fresh air - I actually had an idea of what would be happening come 2016. In fact she said she thought I knew more about it than she did. Job for me somewhere perhaps..............?)  

Thanks Lynne.  Very useful

Definitely a job somewhere for you Lynne! Your information has been invaluable. OK, it makes for depressing reading for women of my age but at least you have pointed us in the right direction and enabled us to ask appropriate questions and expect accurate answers. 

It it seems ironic to me that all this is emerging 100 years on from when the suffragettes were high profile in their bid to get a better deal for women. Some things never really change! Time for the suffragettes Mark 2? Count me in! 

Ah yes - the impact of all of this on women in particular (especially as great play has been made by the government of how the new system will be of benefit to women).

 That will be my next line of research. 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/pensions/11067567/New-flat-rate-state-pension-how-much-will-you-get.html

and I've now found this. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/hi/programmes/money_box/transcripts/money_box_24_may_14.pdf

 It's the transcript of the BBC R4 programme Moneybox which was broadcast on 24th May 2014.

The bit concerning the new state pension starts middle of page 6 "It's less than 2 years............." and continues to the bottom of page 10.

It occures to me that by the time you've all sorted out how much you'll get. you'll be drawing it anyway.

I understand life expectancy for men is lower.  One out, one in...