General Discussion
Britain needs some socialism following over 30 years of right wing Torysm where income tax cuts have been lavished on top earners, and the rest of us have had to endure means tested handouts. This doesn’t represent a fair spread of wealth, this represents inequality, unfairness, and social injustice, yet it is legal, it is a political system. And “Socialism has been made a dirty word in today’s Britain by the Tory's and the right wing press.
Yet SOCIALISM means caring about “ones” country and our fellow citizens, it is about Society growing up, growing old, becoming ill, or disabled, or unemployed, and in maturing we are caring for people now, and ourselves in our futures, and this is achieved via the State, and the direct taxation, and National Insurance contributions paid by all when working. This is democratic Socialism, looking after each other with no Government discrimination...
Ultimately we all rely on pensions, and ultimately we all rely on the NHS unless we are all very lucky, which is becoming more under-funded than ever before””. Yes and I say ultimately we pay for them as well via income taxes and National Insurance contributions when working.
It is a simple premise that was thrown out with the bath water when ordinary working class people UK sold their souls to the Thatcherite ideology in 1979, when they brought their council houses and acquired shares in Thatcher’s newly privatised Utilities
Benefit fraud costs the Exchequer 1 million a day, while tax avoidance and evasion costs us all £260 million lost revenues per day.
The fact of the matter is that the Tory’s and their like minded friends in the right wing press, like to make issues about benefit fraud, other than the rich avoiding paying income tax, because us lesser mortals can relate more to our own class supposedly ripping off the system, and this is how the Tory’s gain power and keep power for the sake of power, by demonising the poor, the old, the disabled.
I regard myself as a European democratic Socialist, because I believe in Social Europe, housing for example in Europe is much cheaper.
Social Europe is also highly democratic with Proportional Representation as its voting system, whereas the UK voting system of “first past the post”, is both antiquated and not democratic.
Democratic Socialism across the EU ensures much higher and fair income tax based on ability to pay, cheaper housing, much higher State pensions, and as Dave Cathy point out in his letter care of the OECD, the role of the State across Europe plays a greater role in investment and subsidy, than Britain’s highly stigmatized State.
Britain’s rich and poor divide is growing faster than anywhere else, and that we are back to 1945 levels. The right wing Tory’s since Thatcher have managed by stealth this past 30 odd years, to remove and/or run down all the Social and economic advances set in place by the 1945-48 Labour Government lead by Clement Attlee, including the NHS, which has been suffering from chronic underfunding since the 80’s based on low income tax, trickle-down economics.
With everything happening in our country since the Thatcher era, and 2010 under David Cameron, being a Tory is nothing to be proud of, the abolition of the roll of the State, the demonization of the welfare State and those on welfare, the creation of food banks, and bedroom tax, but being a Socialist is something to be proud of because of the attitude of mind Socialism represents.
Right wing Torysm is about the individual over and above society’s needs.
Socialism is about societies needs over and above the individual.
What we have today sums up what happens when people constantly put into power ultra right wing fascist Governments starting with Thatcher, care of a most undemocratic voting system.
Margaret Thatcher began this decent from central government funding; onto local taxation; at the same time depriving local authorities from much needed finance. Thatcher began removing "the role of the State" from people's lives, and now we are mercilessly reaping what has been sown this past 30 odd years. And people using food banks has no place in a modern 21st century Britain.
And what’s worse is that since this coalition was formed in 2010, David Cameron has been using the deficit as a cover to ideologically reduce the State, and everything to do with it. And the BBC media is going along with it.
And another thing. Capitalists always go on about competition. But........I wonder how many, in truth, would operate monopolies if they possibly could?
An inherent contradiction in capitalism perhaps is that whilst competition, the market economy and the profit motive go hand in hand, competition in itself must drive down the potential profits to be made by those shopkeepers/firms etc offering the same goods and services to the same market with the weakest business(es) going to the wall.
So, if the survival of the fittest/Social darwinism ethos of capitalism is pursued to its logical conclusion then surely monopolies should be the final outcome as by being the fittest they have survived and seen off all their competition.
See my reasoning?
Lynne, yes, of course I do. But the Tory's use the shortermism of market greed to get votes and gain power.
Unlike Britain since Thatcher, Western Europe invests into its manufacturing and industry bases. Wheras Britain relies on markets, and wages driven down to the lowest they can get.
Britain has been a short term, insecure, low waged, low income tax economy for over 30 years since Thatcher.
Mcjrpc, I would not have thought an obvious intellectual like your good self would have any trouble or difficulty discussing political ideoligy ?
Judging by your posting, I dont have half your intellect, but can easily understand the difference between the Tory right wng running this country since the 1980's and traditional Labour prior to 1979.
One detests the role of the State and everything connected to it, in favour of privatisation and charities.
The other values the role of the State and tax payers money being used as investment and subsidy.
@Mcjprc - on this issue of changing voting habits. I think some voters do change, or, possibly more correctly, have and have never had any political party allegiance. They are known as floating voters aren't they? In our first past the post voting system (which is a bit of a nonsense when we now have more than two political parties) it is the floating voters in the marginal constituencies who determine the outcome of any general election. Newton Abbot (Teignbridge constituency as was) was a Conservative/Lib Dem marginal. Anne Marie Morris winning by but 500 votes over Richard Younger Ross in 2010. Not sure how marginal this constituency is now though given how much the Lib Dems have fallen out of favour with the electorate.
@warrior - I live in the south west of england. And you?
And here's an example of a conglomerate flexing its muscles with respect to the right of each nation state to make its own laws. http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/philip-morris-international-threatens-to-sue-government-if-plain-packaging-introduced-9664968.html
There are no doubt countless other examples. Howzabout the processed food industry/sugar industry? And let's not forget the banking industry. Oh dearie me no, let's not forget them at all!
Don't understand why anyone would want to go backwards to Socialism.
Thatcher gave people the choice to buy their own house and better themselves, they were not fored to/.. Streets where people care for their property, decoration and garden etc..are nicer places to be and walk at night...
Socialism is not about choice is it?
Going back to everythig being public owned is a crazy idea, example. railways, remember British Rail and the 70s advert 'were getting there' ...well they never did. Government has not a clue how to schedule trains...it is why the lines closed in the 60's branch lines did not connect well with main line so they had the 'evidence' of lack of passenger use so they could close lines, nobody looked into why!
I have no doublt people will vote Red Ed in, and after 5 years he will say, like the end of the last year of Labour.. having chucked money at everything to be popular ..'we have no more money!' Then it's back to the tories again to sort out the mess!
wondering, Thatcher sold of council housing to existing tentants then stopped building council houses completely, hence our housing and homeless crisis today.
We have plenty of money for fighting wars in the far east...
I am in favour of bringing all our utilities back into public ownership.
If you bring utiltities back you HAVE to pay whatever they want for electric.
My power supplier. was too expensive and poor service ..so I moved and pay far less now.
Aa I say Socialism is not about choices.
And I wonder just how much of that RTB property has now ended up in the private rented sector where rents are higher than social or affordable rents? Never mind though "Housing Benefit will take the strain" (put that in quotes as understand a minister during the Thatcher years allegedly said it - will do a search to see if I can find out who it was).
Neither is the system weve had since Thatcher. "choice" is for children. A mature adult society makes sure its most vulnerable citizens are looked after first and formost care of the role of the State. Thatcher despised the State as does Cameron.
Thanks to over 30 years of right wing rule in this country, people are forced to use foodbanks, millions of pensioners are in poverty having to choose between heating their homes and buying food, and chartities, and millions are homeless, there's no choice for them.
It was Sir George Young wot said it!
From an article in Inside Housing: "On 30 January 1991 the then housing minister Sir George Young was asked in parliament what the government was going to do about unaffordable rents. ‘Housing benefit will underpin market rents - we have made that absolutely clear,’ he said. ‘If people cannot afford to pay that market rent, housing benefit will take the strain.’
Housing benefit has indeed taken the strain ever since - of deregulation and soaring rents in the private rented sector and private finance and stock transfer in the social sector. In the process the annual bill has risen from £6bn to £22bn and it has come to underpin not just rents but the entire delivery of affordable housing too."
Well said Lynne. Britain needs a universal council house building programme at low rents to take people out of the trap of the means test system..
an' 'ere's another gem from Georgie boy - this time with regard to the homeless.
Sir George Young, the Tory MP once said the homeless were "the people you step over coming out of the Opera House",
Wondering, Short term, insecure, low waged, private sector jobs. Happy about this ?. You bet im not.
What is employment classed as? Part time short term contracts? How are you expecting to live on that? Bottom dropped out of the market you work in? I know go back to education and reskill ... hahahaha.
As an aside, I see today that sadly David Force has had to close his Teignmouth branch of Force and Sons. I do hope the 3 people made redundant are able to find jobs.
flo, while we maintain a low waged low income workforce, firms and businesses are going to continue going to the wall because people just wont have the disposable income.
Makes sense therefore to increase income, to increase spending power, which would increase demand and lead to an increase in jobs, which in turn would increase the tax take/take more people off the need to claim benefits, etc etc.
Instead of which what do we have? An ever increasing gap between the salaries of them at the top and them further towards the bottom. That just cannot be sustainable, can it? It does make me wonder if capitalism is in the process of destroying itself. After all, if the likes of me and you and many millions more me and yous don't have the money to buy stuff then profits will decrease/firms close/more people get laid off etc.
If I had artistic tendencies I would draw a cartoon of Capitalism in the process of devouring itself and all due to its own greed.
@wondering one of the reasons, she sold off council houses was to stop workers striking , no matter how much people might want to buy they have to get a mortgage first, and unless you are in a well paid job that has become impossible. 2 million council houses were built before she came to power, and she sold them . as lynne says most are now in the hands of private landlords charging high rents, double what they would be if they were still social housing, rich helping the rich. my children are earning minimum wage 2 on zero hours contracts, so how do they get a mortgage, or even afford the high rents?
@warrior wondering has a thing about "red ed " maybe he/she realises their bubble would burst under him 
roberta, we cant continue with this free market we've had for over 30 years, there has to be some sustainabilty somewhere, and this can only come from State intervention when are where necessary.
But this is a free market subsidised by the taxpayer in many ways let us not forget. (So not really a 'free' market then?)
For example working tax/child tax credits for those in work but on pay so low that they qualify for WT and CT credits. And then of course there is our old friend Housing Benefit. How much state intervention in the form of tax payer money aka HB finds its way into private landlords' pockets?
Lynne, I could not agree more. I was refering to the European's who uphold their industries and manufacturing bases via taxation, pay better wages, and fair taxes based on abilty to pay.
Yes the British taxpayer is indeed subsidising a so-called free market in tax credits, pensions credits, and housing benefit, and a means test for pensioners costing more than uprating State pensions to a decent amount.