Dawlish Discussion

With all the activity in Dawlish currently surrounding the repair of the railway line it seems that all three levels of council have forgotten that today is the start of the holiday/visitor season for Dawlish.

Once again we a going to loose out to Teignmouth, their seafront to a certain degree of useability has been repaired, cleaned up and made ready for use. Ours is still covered in broken rubble sea debris and to add insult to injury is fenced off and inaccesable. When is something going to be done to get it cleared up.

In addition to the town looking like a bomb site you would have though seeing as we have the leader of the county council highways dept living locally we may have a bit of an advantage when it comes to road repairs. Quite the contary it seems Exeter Road the only remaining main route into Dawlish now ressembles a badly maintained cart track huge potholes everywhere and clear evidence that the road is showing signs of complete breakup. Dear Mr Clatworthy when is this going to be addressed, during the main holiday season carnival week maybe. Or are you just going to keep paying out for the hundreds of damage to vehicals claims.

TDC need to take some urgent action around here and stop putting all their efforts into supporting the building of two bit houses all over the town just so they can dump their council waiting list here. The silent leader Mr Christophers needs to get over here with men and equipment get the town and sea front cleaned up, repaired and ready for use.

I bet if you stopped the councillors pay until Dawlish was fit for purpose your head would spin at how quickly they would get it resolved!

Two pieces of information that may help

(1) The sea front has been ruled as "Off limits" by Network Rail and Teignbridge are not able to access it for repairs or clean up until this is changed.  Unfortunately this also means no public access except to Coryton Cove and the section of the promenade immediately adjacent.  The Rock Pool cafe is open for business and can be accessed by the path that leads in front of the shelter above Boat Cove

(2)  Devon County Council are prioritising pothole repairs on the main roads, including the A379.   So far, Devon County Council have met their 24 hour response target everytime I've reported a pothole using the online reporting tool.

http://www.devon.gov.uk/pothole

The key thing is to make it absolutely clear in the box marked "Description of Fault" that the location is on the A379, I'm told by the lady that answers the phone at Devon Highways that this means it goes straight on to the priority list

@michaelclayson

Thanks for the info however it isent very helpfull in addressing the main points of the post. Perhaps you could enlighten further as to

A) What gives Network Rail the right to virtually take over the town and declare huge parts of it "off limits" and if this is likely to be a regular occurrance then the sooner they move the line inland the better.

B) Where do Network rail get the power to overrule the local authorities, and when is the towns seafront going to be open again. Not maybe actual date

C) The main A379 road heading to town in both directions has surely gone beyond the stage of being able to successfully fill in potholes it needs major reconstruction as the railway. The question to Mr Clatworthy is, when is this going to happen?

As rate payers I dont think it fair that we a being fobbed off with unclear answers as to the towns future. The back slapping of the "Orange Army" is totally uncalled for as they are doing their job for which they will be being paid vast sums of money totally unachievable by local workers. In addition if the work had not been neglected for years like the roads the current situation may well have been avoided.

Would it be fair to say that once the trains are running again the work rate will be scaled back leaving the town and parts of the warren in a total mess for the holiday visitors to despare at

@Fred Bassett. It may have escaped your notice but there Is a railway to fix.That was because of storms. Not NR fault. If you want the railway to go inland then that will kill off Dawlish and

surronding areas. So for the time being just grin and bear It and then soon  everything wil be back to normal.  

I for one don't understand the accolades about the "orange army" true they are working hard and getting paid a very good wage with all the overtime and working at the weekends. However i do agree with Fred. This is a cash cow for some and i don't blame them for taking full advantage of it. Last Sunday i took a walk down Marine Parade and was truly amazed to see one workman shovelling balsast and no less than Twelve standing around watching him. If this is indicative on the other parts of the works that the public can't get access to and to view them at work i don't see these repairs being finished until end of May. This will be a disaster for the town vendors. Now perhaps I'm being usual cynical self but that's me. 

@stephen15

You are spot on there and typical of why Teignmouth prospers and Dawlish seeps further into decay.

Yes we will undoubtably "return to normal" with no lessons learnt, no changes made, no new thinking and no new investment.

Unless your a historical railway fanatic its perfectly obvious that the line is just a blight on the town which in turn prevents any development of the sea front from Exminster to Spray Point.

Dawlish needs to be served by a railway yes, but one thats modern, fit for purpose and away from our biggest asset.

Instead of harping on about the remains of Brunells famous line lets have some positive thinking about the potential when its gone. With the right planning, development and investment Dawlish will be great both to live in and to visit.

As for the pumping of over 5000 cubic metres of concrete into a large hole by the sea has any real thought gone into that or is it just a quick way of getting the trains running again. Im no environmentalist myself, but even I can see that something aint right with that.

The problem of Dawlish and the sea wall is the lack of regular, quality maintenance. It's not like the people of Dawlish don't pay through the nose via the rates. At the very least a meeting  should be arranged by the councillors to allow the people of Dawlish to ask questions directly to these representatives of our local council and get clear and concise answers. The Manor house might be a possible venue.

Isn't Network Rail responsible for maintaining the wall? 

“Network Rail is a company limited by guarantee, and was established in March 2002. It is a private company with a board of directors, but does not have shareholders. It's members are drawn from the rail industry and the public. Its accountable to its customers and funded through a mixture of access revenue, paid to it by the train operating companies, and received money from the government grants.”

From http://orr.gov.uk/about-orr/who-we-work-with/industry-organisations/network-rail

Yes Lynne

the sea wall and the viaduct are all Network Rail.  They own it and pay for all repairs, so they also control access

If what you say is correct Michael then as a town we are in a very vunerable situation as to our future sea defense. It is also unthinkable that Network Rail have the capability and entittlement to hold the town to ransome.

It now becomes even clearer that once the trains are running again nothing further will be done for a very long time.

Perhaps now is the time for a published guaranteed time scale as to when access to the beach and seawall will be allowed, or begin to notify the Airshow and carnival commitees, tourist offices etc of a worst case accordingly.

Its looking like a closed season could be on the cards, which cannot be good for anyone trying to run a business here.

All however could not be lost as a transfere of the airshow to Teignmouth would probably prove to be a great success if it were to happen

What an idiotic statement from 'Fred'! I wish you would stop running down Dawlish here there and everywhere on the internet. 

FB - my thoughts, for what they are worth, on your post above.

Oh dear what a half empty glass you have.

There has been lots of discussion on this website and no doubt elsewhere as to the need to improve the sea defences. What happened last month has brought it home just how much the sea defences are needed and that they need improving. Perhaps you haven't read the postings on here or read the papers or whatever.

I do not, not for one moment, think that once the trains are up and running again that NR will wash their hands of further sea wall defence work. This whole episode has been, and is, too much in the public eye for them not to do whatever else may be needed. The national  politicians have been promising this that and the other. There is a General Election in 15 months time. ................ 

And just how are Network Rail holding the town to ransom? Any other organisation would be doing exactly the same thing as NR is doing now if they were responsible for the upkeep of the railway and the seawall.  

There cannot be any guranteed timescale as to when access to the beach and seawall will be allowed as that is obviously determined by whenever it is that the works get finished and the weather will have a big say in that. No-one or no organisation can control the weather.  At the moment I understand NR is aiming for mid April for the rail line to be operating again.

So no reason at all for it to be a closed season. In fact I think it will be a very good season as many will want to come here courtesy of all the publicity the 'hole in the wall' has given Dawlish.

So......... let's all raise a (full) glass for Dawlish! 

Is it not as simple as public safety you realy are a miserable b***r Fred 

@Lynne.  i have found the transcript for last tuesday transport select committee for resillance for transport in winter. what i did was googled transport select committee transcipts and found it when the answers came up.hope this helps. 

@stephen15 - can you send me a link please. all i can find is this http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201314/cmselect/cmtran/681/681.pdf

@Lynne. go to google and in the box type transport select committee transcipt. then click on transport committee- uk parliament , it should be the top one and transport  committee will appear , then highlight  in current work inquiries box Transport winter resilience: rail flooding click on link then click on link to february 25th.

.  

Fred has made some very valid points. The 'Orange Army' has been heralded by some as something close to God and yes they are doing a very tough and hazardous job but that is what they are being paid to do. What is really disappointing is that they have brought their own catering vans with them and enjoy 'free food' (for 'free food' read food paid for by the tax payer) when some local cafés could have been offered the contract to deliver this service instead of facing financial ruin. 

And Fred is probably right, the work on the railway line will be completed but the debris will be left for us to tidy up before the visitors arrive in Dawlish. Let's hope TDC and DCC pull out all the stops and make sure we are ready to receive our visitors.

This is good to watch

http://www.parliamentlive.tv/Main/Player.aspx?meetingId=14953

@stephen15 - thank you for the step by step guidance. have now found it. will post the link on separate thread. thank you once again. 

@ Margaret, I think you need to dig a bit deeper to get your facts correct

@Margaret Swift  So lets say a local cafe had been asked to supply on site food the day after the storm they would have a few hours notice to supply the means to deliver this service.   NR are geared up for these events they have catering companies who where on the road ready to go in hours fully stocked to supply on demand food and drinks have you asked any catering company in Dawlish if they have this capability and if they have why arent they contracted by NR.    Now i am just guessing but these companies will not just sit around waiting for these events they are probably contracted and drop everything they are doing to fulfill there contract with NR and this may be a way of working that most companies are not attracted to and  Roberta is correct a little research is a great thing.

leatash, Reasearch is my middle name! I have been out there talking to cafe owners so know what is going on and how badly they are being affected.

You will find that the catering is being handled by  a local concern, my daughter is working there .

If NR work 24 hour day through the night.  Which cafe is open in Dawlish at 3 am if they want food? It sure is a 'picky' old town. ..and you know what, if someone did open all night, how long before someone accuse them of 'capatilising'. 

Margeret Swift   So cafe owners have been badly affected by what?  Is it the free food the workmen are recieving, logically it cant be that because they wouldnt normaly be here so it makes little or no difference.  Is it because there are no trains so we have to ask how many folk visit Dawlish by train in the winter.  Or is the seriously bad weather we have had since December 5th  put people of traveling so before a statement like the above is made we need to research the reasons.   Now i dont know why but may i suggest its a little of no trains, bad weather, and lack of cash in peoples pocket but certainly not the free food as thats just not logical

Thanks for the update Elvis. It never was about the free food - although nothing is free in life - it was about the contract to supply and if it is being handled locally then that is good. 

I also think you may find its not "free" its subsidised. Charlotte Tipper is running the catering concern, hence my reason for saying dig a bit deeper for the truth. My relation thats working down there said they have to pay something towards what they have

It used to be fairly common for workers' canteens to subsidised, but I haven't known such an arrangement for years.  Am surprised it still exists.

A good season !

If your banking on it then it be rather scary right now.

Aren't the bars and restaurants at Westminster subsidised? 

School canteens, Police canteens, Iceland head office, most head office canteens have subsidised food Hospital staff as well i could go on and on how about someone who works in a local restaurant. 

 as far as access to the beach which i believe is a right i dont agree that we should be threatend with arrest or even possible attack with private securitys dogs for accessing a place we have every right to be on. do we now live in a world where anyone with a badge can demand we obey them with threats if we try to go about our lawful bussiness in life

Its a bloody building site at the moment, its for your own safety

  oh and as far as coryton beach which is nearly full with dog mess it is more dangerous with cliff falls than going under a cleaned up viaduct so i would ask the council to get their finger out take back their athority from our oppressors ie the railways and open the beaches which i believe belong to the crown not the rail company and let normal life resume as soon as possible for the local poplace not just the tourists as they to only be interested in a usual we are the savior  of this beautiful town out of season  

sorry about mispelling my key board is playing up

Well done Ashtree. You win the award for possibly the most selfish postings I've had the misfortune to read on this bloody forum. 

A female security guard was attacked last night trying to prevent 2 males from getting on the beach to take photographs. She is ok but it just highlights the arrogance of some people

People are being stopped from going down there for their own safety but also because there are properties which are empty and vulnerable. Unfortunately, there are some scum around who take advantage of peoples' misfortune for their own gain, as witness events in Somerset and Surrey. Also there has been the business of diesel being pilfered from the car park at Dawlish Warren. I for one would rather wait until things are back to normal before I set foot on the seafront. Surely, Ashtree, you could just find it in yourself to give everybody some breathing space and let them get on with the business of clearing up the mess unhindered.

Ashtree In 1993 the Conservative goverment of the time brought in the Railway act and the Crown sold the Railways to private companies.  At the same time the 1993 Transfer Proposal Act came into play so all Crown land and track was transfered to Railtrack.  Now just to confuse your brain further all land above high water mark belongs to whoever owns the adjoining land ie Railtrack but the land from mean low water to high water is owned by the local or county authority so there we have it. 

Ashtree is absolutely right! I have many friends who walk their dogs responsibly (pick up after them!) who are angry at the way the beach has been blocked off with no indication of when we will get access again. They are not wanting to go along the road where the houses are or go near the workings but want to be able to walk along the beach again! Councillors need to get this sorted out and then let the public know what is happening.

Well done Phil, you also win a Selfish Post award!  Just pretend that it's summer, when you shouldn't be walking your precious mutt on the beach anyway. Some people are unbelievable!

Dogs should be banned on the beach and in 'towns' all year round.  Yuk!

Yes the new generation is 'unbelievable'.no time for anyone or anything.

Ah thanks Wondering, you have really cheered me up, I haven't thought of myself as the new generation for about 50 years! Can tell you are a dog lover!

Hi Phil, I hope I can help with this,

i have have been assured by Teignbridge that they have made it very clear to Network Rail that clearing up the sea front and restoring public access to the beach is vital to the Town economy and needs to happen as soon as it is safe to do so.

The decision as to when it is safe to do so has to be an operational matter for Network Rail.  I have had many verbal and email communications with them in recent weeks over various constituent matters, and it strikes me that they are keen to be helpful.  They in turn have been much affected by the outpouring of appreciation for the Orange Army, and it is spurring them on to do the best they can for the town.

@ Phil ,..actually I prefer the dogs to some of their owners! lol

Trains will start running again on Friday 4th April so for those who have won the selfish post award not to long to wait.

Oh no, how will we survive another month?!!

I understand it will take as long as it takes i am concerned as everyone else about the scum who try to take advantage of others misfortune i have also like many people helped where i can but i think the real selfish people are the dog owners leaving their animals mess on the one beach left for the town and the danger of landslips along the path to it so if thats being selfish then so be it the council could clear the beach hut mess up and open a safe route avoiding any possible accidents for everyone

Yes a safe route IS needed..  I am amazed there has been no postings saying the train is so missed (apart from Lynne). I honestly believe the only interest Dawlish has in the train service is that the track protects the town as posts prove and they just like to see the odd steam train go through as it looks good on photos..

I would like to thank michealclayson for keepingus updated rather than just calling people namesand swearing. in my life people that do things like that are just bullys by another form oh and i have never worried what people think of me because while they are picking me out they are leaving others alone so fill your boots abusers I have been called worse

Smella ???????????

@leatash yep.

No, Smella had much more insight.

Yes you might be right . Another prat.

You're a new poster Onport1968 but you're very knowledgeable about past users.  You must know that suspicion over second IDs can cause quite a stir in some quarters! 

@wondering - the line is missed.  i can't get into my office in london easily and have had to put meetings back to april.  the line will be back when it's back so making full use of some of the great conferencing technology around will have to do!

Have not been on for a bit , But still read the posts .

Sorry to cause a stir Mcjrpc.