Dawlish Discussion

Just had the Dawlish Post delivered. On page 2 there's an article headed "District to sell off facilities". At the bottom it gives a list of all the facilities across the district owned by TDC that TDC wishes to dispose of. Here is the list for Dawlish.

Assets for Disposal, Transfer, Optimisation, or Development:

Dawlish: Lanherne Garden Plots; Blackdown Community Centre; Lawn Putting Green; Leisure Centre; Museum; Shutterton Industrial Estate; Coronation Avenue

(descriptions or locations may be approximate, check with TDC for details)

Okay folks - if you'd like to see what TDC are actually thinking of doing re TDC assets in Dawlish suggest you have a look at this

http://www.teignbridge.gov.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=39502&p=0

if you scroll down and keep scrolling down you will see what is being suggested for each of the sites I've mentioned above and why it is being suggested it should happen. 

So the Museum gets 'transferred' to the Town Council/Museum.  Is that good news?  Can they afford to take it over, presumably without having to purchase it? 

So it would seem TDC wants to sell off the Laherne garden plots for commercial deveopment, I can see that going down like a lead balloon.  And the plans for the leisure centre are a bit suspect.

Need the money to keep the higher earning snout's in the trough.

To increase council tax would cause a bloody riot.(hopefully).

Well done Lynne for picking this one up.

Presumably they've done an analysis of the income/running costs of each asset but I can't see it in the report.  The only financial figures seem to be at the end where in total they are looking at £45k pa savings in maintenance costs and a capital return of £1.3m.  It's also not clear how transferred assets will be supported by the receiving organisation e.g. if something is transferred to Dawlish TC will it come with a budget?

Well that caps it all TDC has sold out the town to developers so why not sell off the assets, I wonder which developer will buy what. What price localism.

Absolute joke. Time we did the same to TDC as we did to the last DTC and organise a public vote of no confidence. We desperatley need new thinking on TDC and an ousting of the old school ignorant fence sitters.

Any public body that cannot maintain its assets within its budget is not fit for purpose and therefore needs a 100% management restructure, not disposal of the said assets to continue financing the incompetence

One other point would be to question the absolute ownership of some of these assets. As with Dawlish Lawn which undoubtably belongs to the people of Dawlish, TDC are only charged with maintainance of the facility for public use.

On the basis of the proposal would it not be an idea for a public audit of TDCs fianances

a) to find out where they spend the money and

b) to prove their viability to be able to provide future servicies to the community

There have been rumours for years now that TDC are on the verge of fianancial bankruptcy, and before next years council tax bills are produced the public should be told the truth.

If TDC are to sell off the Shutterton Industrial est. Perhaps we will at last see details of the ammount of regeneration money set aside supposedly for roads drainage ect. held in an account over many many years (reported many times in the Dawlish Gazette) to bring shutterton estate up to standards.

 It is to be remembered that a development company Black Rock or similar put in a propsal to do all of this work and regenerate the est.

They were turned away immediately no reason given why?

Very difficult situation with Shutterton Ind Est, as TDC only own or claim to own part of the access road and only small plots of land like the former re-cycling centre. Most of the properties with the newer type units are in private ownership and are Freehold sites

If this is true then surely common sense ought to dictate that we hold on to these small areas for exactly the purpose they have served already.

There will surely come a time when fly tipping will become so expensive that we will have to consider opening up another-recycling centre?

Having to travel to Exeter or N abbot to dispose of rubbish is too far for most to consider and expensive to employ a carrier to do,

As far as i am aware Plymouth City Council will pick up for free any disposable items why can we not have a similar service in Teignbridge?

As you may be aware Government will subsidise the cost of bringing back weekly green waste collection but again Teignbridge is not willing to

bring it back, so for many the view is if Teignbrige cannot be serious about recycling neither can they?

@spiral 1

As above anything to do with local government is always complicated..

The re-cylcing site at Shutterton is to my knowledge owned by TDC however the operation and removal of the waste was financed and arranged by Devon County Council. It was DCC that withdrew the funding thus closing down the site.

As for the removal of waste direct from your property. TDC do have the Blitz Squad collection service, this is of course not free and a list of charges is on their website, also has to be booked in advance.

The green waste if cut up to a reasonable size can be placed in your green wheelie bin and you can also order a replacement or maybe an extra one again via their website should you need more capacity than 1 bin per fortnight.

Collecting the rubbish is probably the best thing that TDC  manage to do without their usual incompetence

I appreciate your point about volume of green waste but this is not the main issue 2 week collection is too long. especially in the summer?

I have noticed that more and more people are having to move there bins further away from their properties especiall near windows because of the

decomposing waste,

This must be a health concern and encourage Rat`s ect,

Even more exacerbated now because the Drains are no longer cleaned out Foul water and sludge is building up every where!

With the Rat`s growing in size it won`t be long before we have to afford protection to the cat community?

Maybe it's time for a council tax rise you can only maintain services if you are prepared to pay for them.

Mr Clayson - help out here. Is TDC on the verge of bankruptcy. Yes or No

No.

But hard times and it's going to get worse.

As you know, I am not a Teignbridge Councillor.  So what I know is gleaned from asking questions and reading papers on the TDC website.

Essentially, the austerity cuts are biting and beginning to move beyond soft targets to hit home. Local government finance rules are complex and it takes years for government cuts to work through.

TDC has current revenue of 13.8 million per year, within two years that figure will fall by a further 1.5 million and the decision makers are trying to factor now what has to be cut to compensate.  Lots of jobs at Forde a House were cut this year.  Staff made redundant and those left expected to do more with less.

Raising council tax is not an easy response to this.  For a start, the government cuts the central grant if councils do this, and there is also a law that enforces a compulsory referendum if Councils raise tax above a certain limit.  The received wisdom is that people don't vote for tax rises.

So, hard choices and very likely even more cuts to come from government whichever party is in charge.... And the same process is at work within the County Council.

One solution regularly suggested is to transfer services to Town Councils, so that they can pay to keep toilets open etc..... But Dawlish Town Council tax base was reduced this year by central government by over £53,000 and the same rules about referenda on tax rises may apply to town councils in the future.  It would be very easy to end up with a raft of additional fixed costs and falling income. 

Thank you Mr Clayson.

From what you say there is no need for them to be selling off the public assets, they just need to save £750,000 per year for the next 2 years. Or of course generate extra income from the assets to cover the short fall. That should be fairly easy.

It sounds like the old school are just using the old and non problem solving methods of generating quick cash to dig themselves out of a ever widening hole. What they should be doing is resigning and allowing some new thinking into the system. 

What next to be sold off I wonder? 

Suppose, just suppose, there was a large piece of land owned by TDC presently designated as part of Dawlish's green infrastructure as per the Dawlish Neighbourhood Plan and Plan Teignbridge, could that peice of land suddenly find itself, sometime in the not too distant future, recategorised as not needed for green infrastructure either in part or in whole? And could that consequently mean that it would be up for sale and up for grabs by developers?

And, and,......... if it were to be the case that the number of new houses deemed to be needed in Dawlish  turned out to be greater than the figure(s) presently being banded about then that land being sold off for housing development could kill two birds with one stone because.........

........TDC by having injected some funds into its coffers would then have money to buy all the land over along Warren Road for its coastal/country park which would then become the  new dog walking area/leisure area which would replace the present function of the piece of land that TDC presently owns but which would have been sold off to developers for housing.  

With me?  

Just to be absolutely clear, the 1.5 million is a permanent revenue cut, not just for one year.  So Teignbridge have to either cut 1.5 million costs or raise 1.5 million extra revenue from other sources every year thereafter.    

Plus whatever extra cuts to revenue that are in the pipeline.  I haven't seen the implications for Teignbridge yet but the Government recently announced further cuts for future years to central grants.

Not saying I agree with what TDC are doing, just trying to be fair and in answer to the question posed to me explain what I know of the financial situation at Teignbridge.

@Lynne

Know exactly what your saying, they sell the leisure centre with its high operating costs in order to buy Warren farm which would have minimum maintainance costs. Sit on the land for a few years till everything calms down then wait for a developer to come along and offer stupid money for the site.

As I have said before they need to be stopped, but not being in local government I dont know how.

Thanks again to Mr Clayson

You could always stand for the Council Fred and have a voice. But my experience as an ex-councillor elsewhere, shows that the Civil Service runs this country.

And bear in mind that this present government (both Tory and Orange Book Lib Dems) are pro the private sector and anti the public one. Ergo - reduce and reduce and reduce the public sector function and its costs. Reduce taxation.

 If services presently provided by the public sector are still needed (ie there is enough demand to provide a profit) that demand to be met by the private sector. Neo liberal free enterprise market forces and all that.

So, for example - the leisure centre could be run privately provided it could generate a profit. Or, if no profit in the leisure centre then, for example, the swimming pool could be turned into something else and the local holiday centres with indoor swimming pools could cater for the demand for leisure swimming from the local population. Which would increase the profits of the local private sector. 

Blimey - we could produce a whole new private sector vision for the future of Dawlish at this rate!

Shall we do that? On this thread or a new one?

Dont suggest it to TDC or youll give the likes of cllr Prowse another excuse for steering committee's, feasability studies, H&S groups etc,etc. Just so they can arrange more jollies and get togethers.

The last lot of local and neighbourhood plans  that cost thousands to produce where without thought chucked out by Eric Pickles government office as incomplete and not as required.

Once again as you rightly say in favour of private sector developers

One thing most Town Councils always excel at is throwing away hard earned money on ill thought out projects, awarding themselves healthy pay and expense rises and blaming everyone else and their dog for their own incompetence.

I doubt things will ever change for the better when you put people and politics together you always get a negative sum.

OLD FART, how much do you think Town Councillors get paid? 

Mrs C, Our local councillors get a small expense allowance, its Devon CC that get the large amounts, IE; our local councillor with DCC is John Clatworthy who is deputy leader and I believe its £35.000 well worth the money dont you think??

FYI.       

This link should give you the TDC 2012/2013 Cllrs allowances http://www.teignbridge.gov.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=37434&p=0

Just out of intrest how old is the affore mentioned Mr Clatworthy because his council expenses are likely not to be his only income. Definatley one of the old school fence sitters with no new thinking just more of the same

FredBaset. I do know he is retired, I cant figure out what he does for Dawlish, maybe somebody here knows.

Thanks for the info LYNNE. I didn't think that Town councillors got paid. A third of a million pounds is quite a lot split between the 46 District councillors. And I don't know why anyone would bother to put in a single expenses claim for just £1.35!

I wonder how the District councillors' pay/expenses compares with other District Councils in the UK? 

Lynne you have mail.

Thanks BB - I've just read it.

Sounds just as I suspected old school sitting on the fence raking in the expenses and voting one another back in time and time again.

Time the civil service got in step with most of the private sector 60 and 65 respectively and out you go.

Retirement should mean just that, make more jobs available to the youger generation and divert the financial support from unemployed youngsters to retired folk without the luxury of private pensions.

The vast majority of citizens don't have to retire at 60 or 65, that's simply not true whether in public or private sector.

State pension age for my generation will be 66. Likewise for getting my bus pass. If I lived in Scotland, Northern Ireland or Wales I'd get my bus pass at 60. Christmas is celtic. 

Talking of the old school look who's got her photo in the press again over on the Starving Children Thread.

Nice gesture of course but any oppertunity and there they are same old faces

Also notice which supermarket she chose to do it in. Couldnt do it in the Coop therefore backing the towns regeneration had to do it in bloody Sainsbury's the supermarket that doesnt want the town centre to compete and survive.

Another Conservative traitor 

Did Co-op have a Foodbank collection?  If so, did they invite the press along to attend a presentation of the collection?  If not on either count, then that says more about the Co-op on the Strand than it does about any local politician. 

I think the sell off is a good thing, in the future it will lower the annual running costs

Sainsbury also had the local school choirs and bands singing and playing in store prior to Christmas. The significance of this my neighbour's who have never been to Sainsbury went to see their grandchildren sing there reaction on there return they where amazed what a great place to go they said have you ever been there, they have now decided to shop there. My point is that Sainsbury operate in the 21 century and use any marketing ploy to bring customers to the store maybe the co op and the shops in general can learn from these strategies and drag themselves into this century

yep totally agree @leatash.  stopped using co-op (foodstore) way before sainsburys arrived due to the appalling customer service.  shame as the co-op funeral service in dawlish is run by lovely people - should run a master class for the foodstore on how to be polite.

I'm sure there will be plenty of replies to this but why on earth do you need to go to a supermarket.

Fruit&veg shop Dawlish

Butchers Dawlish

cleaning/toileteries Dawlish

Alcohol Geralds warren

Fuel Texaco

so WHY ?

Convenience?  - everything in one place, saves time & money driving around.

Parking? - plenty of parking space and free for as long as you need for shopping.

Weather?  - everything indoors, specially helpful if also have children in tow

Price?  - not sure about this.  I suppose it depends on what you're buying but I suspect supermarket would overall be cheaper

Anything else?

To add to the above, in no particular order:

Nectar points. 

Consistently first class customer service. 

Open after 4pm every day except Sunday.

Variety of fresh, chilled and frozen produce. 

Clothing.

Click and Collect. 

humbug

ANDYSPORT, I hope that's not a moan from you. 😊

IIYes everything is in the strand at a price the butchers is very expensive the same with veg then you have to park etc etc. Fuel is cheaper at Sainsburys they have great staff it's just a nice experience rather than going from shop to shop in the wet and cold and into shops that have little or no heating with miserable staff all I can say is well done Sainsburys. I would like to see the Sainsbury store expand with a cafe more clothes,electrical, and household goods let's hope they are considering expansion the sooner  the better.

Mrs C, humour on my part, ribbing.

If it expands then we will need more houses, = more shoppers

 more profit for builders, and land owners

When the population gets to 25000 we can have a mcdonalds

Great that's my vote for expansion

I;m a landowner

If someone had told me that an unwanted housing expansion in Dawlish would mean a Mc Donalds in Dawlish. I would have been all for it from the start. Developer's get building.