Dawlish Discussion

Dont know how many have read the news today but it appears our local district council have a problem with individuals and companies that dare to display the English flag of St George. A local Taxi driver of 16 years has been threatened with having her licence revoked unless she removes the sticker flag from her vehicle.

This action supported by elected ciir Mike Walters is an insult to every British citizen and I for one have called for his resignation

Our armed forces abroad fly the flag with pride and honour so do our national sports teams. Teignbridge Council are seriousely wrong in taking this action and should display our nations flag on all its buildings and vehicles, if not then they are an organization unfit for purpose.

are they worried about upsetting the Muslims?? I sometimes wonder are we a Christian state or a Muslim state???

Putting religion aside. Its about national pride and honouring the emblem of our nation. In America you are not classed as a legal citizen until you have sworn a legence to the flag, the same should apply here, those at TDC who object to the flag should not be allowed to hold a British passport and therefore should be sacked.

Here is the link to the EXPRESS for this story

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/437673/Council-killjoys-ban-taxi-driver-from-having-St-George-s-Cross-on-cab-for-discrimination

Perhaps the council should also ban English speaking drivers because it would leave anyone who is not English at a "disadvantage in their day to day life".

Or perhaps we should not use English money because it would leave anyone who is not English at a "disadvantage in their day to day life".

I could go on . . . but I wont . . .

Did you see on Thursday evening news where a school in the West Midlands said English is now the second language. What on earth is going! .. I hope UKIP will sort this all out.

The driver should  buy a new set of vehicle registration plates including the flag of St George legall under DVLA regulations.  Then every resident and buiseness in Dawlish should place a flag on the outside of their property and tell TDS to shove it where the sun dont shine.

story here on schools. ..

http://news.sky.com/story/1155504/english-not-the-first-language-in-240-schools

http://cllr-mike-walters.blogspot.co.uk/ This is the councillors blog link -note its Mike not Mark -

I lived in London for many decades and have seen how things have changed for the worse as time went on, I would say a lot more, but I don't want the police knocking on my door. I moved to Devon to get away from a society/culture that had turned alien to the way I had been brought up. I believe that the people of the West Country are not going to be happy how their way of life will change in the coming decades. Why doesn't everyone get a sticker or flag and put it on their vehicle in support against this petty  bureaucracy.

I am ENGLISH not British and so make a stand and tell teignbridge to go and P--s off

Better stop now otherwise this "democratic"country will have my balls.

Why after writing many emails to TDC and members of the Conservative party, do I get the feeling this is going to be swept under the carpet. Not had any response regarding the issue being investigated or heard of any resignations.

Jeremy Christophers its time to speak out or get out you are meant to be in charge and your authority are on the verge of committing treason if they carry on with this

And the Conservative party just go from bad to worse they sit back and do nothing for English schools and students for years and now this

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/pm-announces-new-measures-to-help-muslim-students-and-entrepreneurs

Its a bloody disgrace and has to be stopped

I saw an article about this issue in the Dawlish Post dated Friday , 8 November 2013, bottom of page 3. In a nut shell it seems that the district council's senior licensing officer AndreaFurness believes that the current format of the sticker does not comply with the requirements relating to fairness and equality in their licensing policy. That being the wording 'Local Driver' and not the St George's flag. In her opinion, well is it or isn't it.

From what I read from the article, if it were against the rules the licensing officer would have taken action, but all they are saying is that the taxi driver needs to make an application to retain the signs. So, am I right in saying that if the taxi driver does not make an application for the stickers to stay on her taxi the licensing office cannot stop her displaying them?

Why all the fuss? We all know Teignbridge District Council couldn't orangise a party in a brewery. Just continue displaying your flags as you were.

From what i understand there are a number of Eastern European drivers in Newton and they have taken offence at the Locall Driver part of the flag.

..if so they need to go back home, bet they were happy to have benefits from good old UK

and those drivers who work for that firm Teignbridge Taxis need to teach them not to throw rubbish out of their windows, like the one I saw this morning.

If they object to the English flag then bugger off back home.

Bet they don't too many benefits.Taking the P---

Could say more, would like to say more,

Getting to that point.

Idea if driver does not have St Georges cross on

don't use it. 

It's not the flag of St George (who was Greek, by the by), that's the issue. It's the wording on the sticker that isn't right. 

Driver is local... in a local town ..whats wrong with that?

Dear Mrs C don't care his origins what i care about is people accepting 

our hospitality then start calling the bloody tune. 

Why is it okay to advertise local produce but not local workers?

The council officials are just trying to defuse the issue by now saying its the Local Driver logo placed within the St Georges flag thats the cause for complaint.

It would be nice to know how they have handled the complaints received regarding the Eastern European drivers employed by Teignbridge Taxis. Guess they have been ignored.

As for the Consevative party themselves which control the council - No Comment however AnneMarie Morris has written to Jeremy Christophers asking for a full explaination. I have to say it will just be swept under the carpet until the taxi in question needs its annual test.

Why is the flag an issue?  The red tractor logo is on a union jack, perhaps that ought to be banned too?

have some damm respect for eastern europeans they have a right to have an opinion they come over to the uk for a better life and they are willing to do jobs that we wont do if they take offence to our flag then it should banned all of you are just racist im defending eastern europeans as a uk cittizen because they have a right to an opinion how dare people call eastern europeans my wife is a european and i know some immagrants that have come to the uk for a better life and they work there socks have some respect for theese people .

Come over here and take us over great!   Soon you will not be able to fly the flag at all in case it offends them, If they dont like it here go back.

@Taylorjack913.

Does your wife work then, and does she speak English and can you tell us why we are racist and why we should show respect to peolple that come here with nothing to claim everything and then have the cheek to send the money back to their own countries to finance more of their people to come here.

my polish wife works in a local shop and has the right to live in the uk and the st georges flag offends us we would much prefer the british flag that shows we are all one we also fly the polish flag and as a british citizen i respect every beleif and religion if the polish or muslims want to come for a better life then so they should if they build mosques then we should show respect to their religion people need to realise that now polish,muslims and any other europeans are more than welcome to come to our country as we are all one as a multicultral britian please show theese people the respect they deserve.

....so ENGLAND football fans have to remove their flags too at pubs and on cars?

oh yes it is disrespectful to muslims an europeans

well you not exactly going the right way to be popular here lol ..30 years ago or so, all this would have been unheard of in Devon and the West Country.

Wy musi jest *joking* 

Pytają (prosić) waszą żonę jaki (co) te środki *lol* 

Taylorjack913 as I am English and Proud YOUR COMMENTS OFFEND ME

Strange, taylorjack always comes over as about 13 to me, surprised he's old enough to be married

I have read with interest all the comments on the rights and wrongs of this lady displaying a flag with local driver written on it.  I myself drove  a taxi in Bristol for twenty years  before retiring here and what is common to here and Bristol, is not the rights and wrongs of what the lady has done, but the actions of the jobworths and Councillors , who are unable to see the bigger picture and have their respective heads just below the threshold of competance.  We're the Council and what we say goes. It won't be long before the taxi drivers will be obliged to have  calendar meters , black cabs and swear their alliegence to the Council signed  in blood.  Get  a life!

all my point is that we live in a multicultural britian and we should accept and respect views of muslims because they have a right to say their opinion if they build a mosque then we should respecct their view on religion and be proud that we are a free country and we have people from all religions join as one and respect each other thats all.

You know what ..if we went to Poland and said 'we are offended by the Poland flag' ..they would not remove it would they?...

I really do hope UKIP gets many seats in the next election.

@Taylorjack 2 they blow up a train/bus 

WONDERING:  It's not the flag that's the issue!  It's a woman suggesting that she's a better choice of taxi driver because she's from round here. As for UKIP, they're proven to be a bunch of racists, so you talking about them in relation to this issue sums up what this is really all about. 

What is wrong with this once great country that as soon as you utter an opinion about a foreign nationality you are labelled rascist, yet they can do and say as they like

Mrs C, why shouldn't the lady say she is a better choice, as she is from here, her local knowledge is invaluable as a taxidriver.  I'd rather be driven by someone who knows where they are going.

It amazes me that muslim extremists can carry placards with 'execute the soldiers' behead them and similiar and get fined £50 yet two other people daubed paint on a mosque an got two years in jail, where is the logic

http://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/Police-adopt-uniform-hijab/story-12058583-detail/story.html a friend of mine sent me this link the other day, it justs shows the extremenest of what we are now faced with, bending over backwards to appease

totally agree mrs c ukip are nothing but racists as are the people on here that are calling muslims all sorts of bad names there is no place in this country for people that say horrible things about other races or belief they deseverve more respect as a human being

@roberta and who is crying racist, certainly not my polish and muslim work colleagues!  i think there is nothing wrong with advertising yourself as local, good on you.  i'm also fed up to the back teeth of bickering over racism which doesn't exist both ways.  for god sake some people see insults where there are none.  it takes the spotlight off real racism, the council ought to be ashamed of themselves.

all that me and mrs c are saying is that ukip are racists and people on here are attacking other religions muslims polish russians are all welcome in the country because they are very nice people that look for a better life.

UKIP are realistic, How can this tiny island keep on taking thousands upon thousands more people ...where are they all going to live and work?  I see on the news last night big problems in Sheffield ..its a total nightmare.

@Taylorjack

It's rather ironic that you talk of respect when several of your posts have been deleted by the webmaster due to the foul insults thrown at other forum members.  You need to take a long hard look at yourself.  In fact I am surprised you are still a member here, other forums would have banned you long ago.

have respect for europeans thats all im saying ok .

WHY ?

because they are poor and want to come to britian to earn money and live a nice life and i respect that.

..and whilst you are here take over! Great!

Take over?  Who's taken over? I'm sorry that's typical UKIP hyperbole that little Englanders fall for time and again.  

Yes they are taking over and everyone knows it.. take our houses and jobs...not to mention the benefits which we should never hand out.

Typical that people who would open our borders to all and sundry try to insult those who object to that policy by calling them Little Englanders. Well, in that case Mrs C, I am a little Englander, and proud of it!

totally agree mrs c.

mrs c / Taylorjack= same person i think..

lol mrs c how thick is jools

JOOLS: Whilst TAYLORJACK and I agree on this issue, that's all that I have in common with that foul-mouthed lout. 

Dear TDC

Do you think it will be ok to display a Merry Christmas sign in my shops over the next month, or will some other local retailers be offended or feel disadvantaged by such .

p.s Have you raised the union flag at Forde house yet ?

Why should we have any respect for the Muslim religion when they have no respect ours.

The problem is we see reports of Muslim women in the Middle East banned from driving, we see Muslims burning our national flag and threatening to kill Police Officers and others.  We see forced marriage and murders if the girls refuse to marry.   No wonder there is a growing tide of anger towards Muslims when in Rome springs to mind

You will have to make your own mind up about the following link:  Bacon and eggs will be off the menu then??

Watching X Factor ..tonight, 'great British songs' ...just waiting for one of em to say they are offended lol  They need to go home asap..

me and mrs c are in support of foreigners coming to work in are country ukip are total racists and are the people that dont like muslims.

I think it's more that the muslims don't like THIS country, they make little attempt at integration, even to the extent of trying to impose Sharia law here, they want to live outside of the community.  Is it any wonder their actions result in suspicion and hostility? 

BURNSIDE:  How many Muslims do you actually know?  Or do you base your opinions on what you read in the papers? 

@Mrs C

I've lived in London and know exactly what I'm talking about, you should open your eyes.

BURNSIDE: Good for you, but that doesn't answer the question unfortunately. And what does London have to do with the rest of the UK? It certainly has nothing to do with Exeter, where today your allies from the EDL were humiliated and outnumbered 5 to 1. 

@Mrs C

I have had Muslim neighbours and work colleagues, have you? You should see a playground at a school in areas with a high Muslim population, a white face is a rarity. And it's not just London, it can be seen in all our major cities.  Like I said, you really need to open your eyes to see what it's like in the rest of the country.

what a bunch of idiots the edl are 200 of them 700 of exexter together message to the edl pipe down shut up your nothing but vile racists

Are we now becoming an oprressive Country like many other dictatorships that do not allow their Citizens freedom of Speech. I may not agree with every protesting body but like me they are entitled to their opinion. Tolerance of others. Protest marches through the ages have prommoted good as well as bad, where would we be without this right. You have your opinion Taylorjack and I have mine and I do not see any rascism on here merely people expressing their fears of what is to come. Enoch Powell was branded a Rascist, but he merely had the foresight to predict the future

I agree Roberta. Enoch was so right and everyonw laughed in his face.

A friend of mine lives in Yorkshire ..I visited recently and in Leeds you are surrounded by these people.  We went to Burnley Lancs and there was a street with no english person anywhere ..as he said to me locals that are still there call it 'letter box land' lol

'these people' - such perjorative words.   Seems to me that the original post, which warranted some constructive debate, has been hijacked by rampant xenophobia. 

YES you BET 

I worked in Coventry for a number of years and there was a very large pond for the kids to float their toy boats called the Swanswell its now for many years called the Indian Ocean. As for Mrs C calling UKIP racist what utter crap, they are concerned with protecting the interests of this country by limiting the amount of European immigrants which I think is senseable. I am sick of politicians who bow to every whim of some of the Muslim race, who openly state they wish to take over the world.

mrs c is talking sense not crap like all of you.

I forgot to include you. So in your eyes suicide bombers honour killings beheading and cutting off of limbs is ok by you, what a sicko

Without prejudice I would like to draw members of this forums attention to this report from CNN which is available on YouTube.

The clip gives the facts, you can read into them whatever you like. It's a free country; for now......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mlxMndnlzw

Oh my goodness EVERYONE needs to watch that!  We are doomed.

Even the Queen is being pushed out!

As i have already said the pot is boiling and it wont be long before the lid blows of, the powers that be need to get rid of these extemists and show them who is boss A.S.A.P.

Yes it really is serious. I see they celebrate 911.

My word, some of you are whipping yourselves up into your own little frenzy aren't you?  It must have been hell during the Northern Ireland troubles when you couldn't judge a terrorist by the colour of their skin.  

you can't judge a terrorist by the colour of their skin now, many are religious converts.

Best thing is not to judge a person by the colour of their skin or where they are from, but by their actions

I believe that the original issue of this thread, has now been forgotten and the debate has turned into a slanging match between people regarding  racism and immigration. I'll just say this. "When in Rome."   Also, " This small island were we  live cannot keep the doors open as they are, it is unsustainable."

UKIP issues travel warning for Bongo Bongo Land

wow Mrs C and you accuse other people of being prejudiced.  You really are quite offensive aren't you when people raise legitimate concerns regarding the changes taking place to the make up of this country.  And that is why there isn't a national debate about it, sensibly and calmly, because people LIKE YOU instantly shout down anyone with an opinion that differs from your own and accuses them of being racist and prejudiced.  Well the news is that YOU are ALSO very prejudiced. 

People are entitled to their opinions and entitled to voice them.  Feel free to disagree with them but there is no reason to tar everyone with the extremist brush, it simply isn't true for most people, they are just concerned at the massive changes taking place over a short period of our history and the longer term effects those changes will have on this country.  There is nothing racist about that, it is simply genuine concern.  I hardly recognise the area I grew up in, you are hard pushed to find white faces amongst the population of that area now and the people that have stayed to live there (including friends and relatives of mine) do feel squeezed out and marginalized.  And that has changed dramatically over the last 20 years or so and so of course people are going to comment on it.  If you've never lived in an area like that then it is very easy in this predominantly white area of the UK to feel that it isn't so much of a big deal but in the large towns and cities around the UK it is a big deal for a lot of people.  Some of them 2nd or 3rd generation immigrants who then don't like the next influx coming in because the numbers are getting greater - and the changes that happened during the Blair years when they actively sought to massively increase immigration caused huge problems that continue to affect this country today and will do for years to come.

I expect the Spanish feel the same about all the British ex-pats on the Costa del Sol.   And talking about being taken over, should we open the discussion up to 'Great' Britain's colonial past?  

By the way,  Mrs C's post was taken from a satirical website. 

i agree mrs c

Thank you MCJRPC. And yes, my post was copy and pasted from a site that pokes fun at the ridiculous. 

The taxi driver concerned has launched an appeal which will be held tomorrow. On the part of Teignbridge council it just goes from bad to worse, they now consider the St Georges flag sticker with the words "local driver" to  be an advertisement. Somebody really needs to loose their cushy pension paying job over this, its a total insult to every organisation representing the flag of England 

Except it's patently clear from this thread that it isn't about taxi drivers promoting their local knowledge of the area and its roads, is it?  It's all about foreigners coming to our country, taking our jobs and changing our culture. That's a different argument.  The council has correctly spotted the intended message.

@Mcjrpc

In this case its not that simple. Teignbridge have acted on a one off complaint from a rival taxi firm who incidently do employ eastern european drivers.

In the first case it was about the flag, then it was changed to being about the words, and now its changed again and is now a breach of their advertising on Taxi's rules. These rules are of course Teignbridges own and are not nationally adopted.

In addition to this there has reportedly been no action taken with regard to the numerous complaints about the same eastern european drivers, not speakig or understanding English fully in addition to relying on sat nav and generally not knowing the area or where they are going.

The better news is that apparently the same stickers are appearing on more Taxis now

Jeremy Christophers leader of the coucil at Teignbridge has apparently still not replied to Anne-Marie Morris's request for a fully detailed report into this issue

Why is it when somebody has an opinion about immagration,out comes 

the old chestnut your a rascist.If i remember it is everyones right to have an opinion. 

In Bristol, before you can have a licence to drive a hackney carriage, you must have held  a full UK driving licence for  a year and in addition, like London drivers must pass " A Knowledge", It could well be that the same should apply here.

  Here you are FredBassett.      Section 71 of the Best Practise Guide, issued by the Government for local authorities when  licensing taxis , states the following.....Language proficiency.... Authorities may also like to consider whether an applicant would have any problems in communicating with customers because of language diifficulties.

Apparently the appeal hearing was today and not tomorrow as reported.

The outcome from this scared shitless appeals committee was to threaten the taxi owner to remove the sticker by Friday or face having her licence revoked.

This outcome is not only a total disgrace  and an insult to the english flag, but is now going to cost the tax payers even more money due to the case being likely to be challenged in the high court.

Hope the elected back slapping tory lead committee are proud of their actions and ready to face the court hearing, just think of the expenses claims they will all make.

I read in the paper, that the lady taxi driver is considering to appeal at Magstrates Court. I wish her the best of luck, but I'm vey doubtful that she will have the decsion overturned.

In my experience, Magistrates who either play golf with, or are in the same lodge as Councillors won't come down on her side.

If she persues matters, she may well fare  better before  a district judge. 

I would like to clarify that Teignbridge did not have a problem with the St Georges Flag it was the wording that the taxi drive chose to put on the flag which was not deemed to be appropriate.

I think the main outcry is not about the flag, at least i don't think so. It's about the sticker that say's  local driver..... If that part is taken out of the wording would the council still have problem with the flag. Opinions please.

The problem is over the wording i believe there had been complaints about East European drivers not knowing routes etc so LOCALL DRIVERS ie those drivers who either are born and bred locally or those who are British born decided to act.  Personaly i cant see a problem but then i am British born and bred.

Would sat nav be of help?   

As I have said earlier, I drove a taxi in Bristol for twenty years. I listened to what customers told me, the Council  as well and went to court on many occasions on behalf of taxi drivers in trouble. In Bristol there are a large amount of ***** cabbies and sadly they were  the ones that, warmed the meter, took the scenic route and overcharged and that is a fact of life. When told about their misdemeanors, I can remember one sayng, ' That's ***** rules.'

As for sat nav that's fine if the customer knows where they want to go, instead of , 'Take us to The Old Duke Drive'.

[Redactions by moderator: Accusations about a social group (esp. without any evidence backing it up) could be considered defamatory]

Update: BBC news article on the subject bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-25118051

I know the disagreement by the Jobsworthy is that it is over 'Local Driver' rather than the flag. What's to stop a minicab driver who has no local knowledge placing one one of these stickers on their car anyway?

OLD FART You have hit the nail on the head thats why all this is so pathetic.

I'll demonstrate just how pathetic it is.

Lets look at the three sets of circumstances under which  you would hire 
a taxi .

First,  if you find a taxi  number in the book and phone up, you would be unaware that there was a sticker on it. Therfore no one else has been disadvantaged.

Second, if you see a taxi coming towards you, either during the day or at night and you flag it down, you won't see the sticker, again no on else has been disadvantaged.

Third, If the taxi wth the sticker is on a taxi rank, then rank etiquette dictates that the  taxi at the front takes the fare. No one a lost out to the sticker again.

The Council  here makes me smile, if you care to look,they even try to  dictate what clothes a hackney carriage driver  wears, although there is no legislation in place to  cover this.

I thought all the clowns were in  Chipperfields.
 

Saw a Newton Abbot taxi in Kingsteignton with loads of English flags over it.

Well done driver it will be the taxi for me.

I note that some of the Teignmouth taxis have stickers which say ;Teignmouth and Shaldon based'. This is surely synonyous with 'Local' - if these are acceptable why are Teignbridge making such a fuss over Mrs Said?

Townhall doing what is does best and we wonder why the area has been going in to decline for so long.

Anyone that mentions UKIP as a good thing is an idiot. They are a bunch of racists and if you believe otherwise you have well and truly fallen for their propaganda.

National flags should be allowed to be displayed proudly whatever nationality you are. The "local driver" wording on the taxi's flag could be misinterpreted and that is the issue.

Moderator, I can back up, what I have said , the evidence is well documented, regarding ovecharging and  by whom.  I myself was involved for many years in that aspect of the taxi trade.
 

@ slargeemail - And the other parties are any better ! 

I don't like UKIP but that saying why is "local driver" as wording an issue?  Local produce is seen as a good thing, why isn't "local driver"?  If you are locally based you are going to know the area better, I forget the number of times I've taken a taxi with someone who has no idea where a well known place is?  It's almost as bad as being asked "if you know the area" by a taxi driver so they can go the long way round without you knowing and charge you more.

Just realiesed the last time I got in a Taxi was about 20 years ago! .. I am amazed by what they charge... people just dont walk short trips.

London Cabbies have to take the 'Knowledge' before they are issued with their license - so in their case Local knowledge is deemed to be compulsory.

@wondering would rather my daughter took a cab than walked a "short distance" late at night.

This knowledge business also went through my mind. Is it only a London requirement or does it apply elsewhere as well? Seems to me a local knowlege test for would be taxi/private hire cab drivers is something that should be applied throughout the country. If that doesn't happen, then why doesn't it?

The Knowledge only applies to licensed hackney cabs (the black cabs) which you can flag down in the street. It doesn't apply to private hire cars which have to be pre-booked by phone or at an office.    As far as I know it only applies in London. 

As I have said before, there is a "knowledge" in Bristol and South Gloucestershire and many other places.
 If you care to google it you will see

As Mcjrpc quite righly says, it only applies  to Hackney Carriage Drivers not private hire.

Bigger stickers with different wording and an admission from the TDC  licencing officer Haley Carpenter that both the flag and the wording were at issue.

Well done Denise and dont give up, take them all the way to the Euro court if needs be

http://www.torquayheraldexpress.co.uk/Local-cabbie-replaces-sticker-mdash-new-bigger/story-20264124-detail/story.html

Still no response from Jeremy Christophers via Anne-Marie Morris, is this what the council tax payers pay him for, ignorance.