Dawlish Discussion

Michael can you give us more details please - like just whereabouts exactly in "the Lanhearne area" is being looked at.

Thanks.

This is from the Dawlish Town Centre newsletter issued by the town centre manager.

"Coach Parking

The Chamber of Trade and the Town Council have been working with Teignbridge District Council to look at alternative options for coach parking. The Council has looked at a number of alternatives. This is a challenging project as coach parking requires significant space for manoeuvrability and therefore it is currently looking at the feasibility of an option in the Lanherne area. They also continue to work with Devon County Council for on street alternatives. "

All I know is that land within Lanherne is being looked at by Teignbridge, also on-going discussion about whether problems at Barton Hill can be overcome.

Teignbridge is aware that there is an aspiration for the cycle route to pass through Lanherne, and have said they will factor this into their study.

its reassuring to know that these issues are being looked at still

I think it best to allow investigations to continue, and leave any comment until we know whether there is actually a practical option for us to debate.

It makes you wonder WHAT exactly is being planned for Sany Lane then.

@Carer.   nothing planned for sandy lane other than to remain as car park

Teignbridge are just trying to meet the long held demand for more coach parking in the town centre

@michaelclayson - somewhere, in the back of my brain, lurks a vague memory of tdc thinking of removing the allotments at lanherne. the only thing i can find in relation to this, by doing a quick search, is this article concerning an increase in the rent per plot.

http://www.dawlishnewspapers.co.uk/news.cfm?id=35160

Could you perhaps update us on TDC's intentions concerning the Lanherne allotments?

OK - will see what I can find out 

This letter concerning coach parking is in today's Dawlish Gazette.

"Railway car park lends itself to coach parking idea

Wednesday, 22 May 2013

Mervyn Nosworthy, of Higher Drive, Dawlish, writes:

Now that The Strand project is nearing completion, considerations are in hand to rationalise the parking options of the town, particularly the facilities for coaches which will no doubt benefit the local economy.

The concept of adapting the Barton Hill car park I would say is totally impracticable.

May I suggest that the railway station car park would be a much better solution?

With some substantial capital investment and good planning, I would suggest a three or four storey coach/car park be built on the existing space with access from the A379 at the bottom of Eastcliff Road via two-way ramp.

In addition, a one-way exit to Teignmouth past the station building and viaduct particularly for coaches.

This would undoubtedly reduce

l the need for coaches to access the town via Iddesleigh terrace (an absolute bottleneck);

l congestion in the town centre; and

l carbon emissions.

It would also give coach passengers easy level access to the town and beach and, of course, bring in much-needed revenue.

As I said, this would need a significant cash injection but I’m sure there would be long-term gain with a tripartite agreement between, say, Devon County Council, Network Rail and Teignbridge Council.

Furthermore, could someone in devon County Council highways department look at realigning the acute bends on Iddesleigh Terrace with some urgency? Perhaps through the Lanhere car park?

Dawlish needs some urgent resurgence. We can do it."
 

@Lynne

I have received the following response from Teignbridge

"The Council has been approached by Dawlish Transition Forum working together with Devon County, to utilise the Lanherne Garden site for the continuation of the Dawlish Warren to Dawlish Cycleway. The final proposals for this route are not yet finalised but the pathway is likely to cross the Lanherne site.

As far as I am aware the investigations into Coach parking at Lanherne are only in relation to the Council owned car park and will not involve any element of the garden site."

With regard to land adjacent to the Train Station.  I have asked this question before and been told that Network Rail have no desire to sell off land to be used as a new car or coach park.   

Thank you Michael. I was concerned about the cycle path and what would happen should coach parking be provided Lanherne.

So, would I be right in thinking then that if (and I accept that it is an 'if') a coach parking site was to be provided at Lanherne that it would be immediately adjacent to the sheltered housing scheme?  

Why not wait and see if there is an actual proposal ?  If so, it would be clear what area (If any) is involved and if so, what the rationale is.

I do believe that there is merit in allowing thinking time by the professionals involved before asking all these questions.

Okay. I/we await to see what, if anything, gets proposed.  

I wonder what the cycle route will be.  It would be fantastic if they made the steps down onto Beach Street into a slope for pedestrians and cyclists.  It would be ideal for wheelschairs rather risking life and limb crossing over to the Jet Garage.  Much safer.

I was talking to some of the residents of Lanherne today and they were saying there are mutterings about the grass at the back of Lanhernewhere the private car park is being removed and the car park extended for coaches - any news on whether this is true?

@flo

Essentially, the situation is unchanged from that described in the earlier postings on this thread.  We know that TDC takes the view that some form of provision at Lanherne is (In their view) the best option possible.  Some early feasibility planning has been done, but not to the extent that a developed option is available yet for consultation with stakeholders.

i think it also true that the general opinion of the Chamber of Trade and Town Councillors is that provision at Barton Car Park would be better, but in the absence of a fully worked out proposal from Teignbridge it has not been possible to have a full debate on this.

thanks @michaelclayson - here's hoping tdc take local opinion on board. 

Saw an interesting letter from Teign Housing, who operate Lanherne, at the weekend.  Apparently they had no knowledge of either the Coach Parking (for which they've asked for more information) or the cycle path, for which they've refused access for reviews.  I wonder whose failure this is.

@flo

Please can you forward this letter to me?  Either via mclay1990@gmail.com or in the post to:

Postern House, Priory Road, Dawlish EX7 9JF.

i will ask the resident @michaelclayson and email if they agree.

Thanks Flo

I am happy to have the letter without any identifying features, but can't take this up without the evidence.

I think that the comment made by ABC should be removed as it has the word slope in it.

I submit as evidence - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-27291467

I'd rather see Sbooty's comment removed.

I am really confused now as late on last year Councillor Vickery produced detailed plans for coach parking at Lanherne with a revised layout of the road which councillor Clayson fully supported. I was concerned as it looked liked coaches would be parking outside the kitchen windows of the residents'  flats and I really could not believe that the residents would support  such a proposal. 

The facts are quite simple, and consistent with my previous postings.

The view of the Town Council is that we would like coach parking at Barton Car Park if at all possible.  We are continually told by TDC that it is not.

TDC are proposing to close Sandy Lane toilets.  One of the reasons why Dawlish Council is concerned about this is that they service the current coach parking facility.  We were told not to worry, as TDC are looking into coach parking at Lanherne.  

We pressed for details of this, and found that only very basic investigations had been done.  Nothing on a level that could go out to public consultation.

Cllr Bob Vickery is not a road engineer.  He has produced some very basic drawings to highlight that Lanherne could not provide safe traffic movements for coaches without major re-engineering of the road system.  This is part of the detailed feasibility planning that would be needed before anything close to a realistic option could be put out to public consultation.

Devon County Council does not have money available to redesign the road layout around Lanherne, and I suspect that is a big part of why the idea has never progressed further.

Barton Car Park would be so much better, and as recently as March 26th I used the opportunity of a meeting with the Deputy Leader of Teignbridge to urge that the option of coach parking there in the Autumn/Winter be looked at again to extend the trading season and make best use of a car park that is underused at that time of the year.

Many thanks for the clarification Michael. I'm sure people appreciate having the added detail and I'm sure those who live in the Lanherne area will now be keeping a close eye on developments.

@michaelclayson

Have you thought of the problems of getting a coach into Barton carpark, first there is the width of Brunswick Place then trying to turn at the top of Brunswick Place into Barton Hill and when coming out of the car park the coach will have to negotiate the Strand again with the width problems. Please remember that most of the coaches that come into Dawlish are a lot bigger than the local country bus that use these roads.

Why cant they stay at Sandy Lane ?

i was thinking the same @roberta.  even if they close the toilets at the car park, there is still the leisure centre, only 5 minutes up the road.

That is a very good question Roberta. The answer you will get from some is that the coach drivers don't like coming to Dawlish as Sandy Lane is too far out of town for them and they have nothing to do when parked up. What people who say this don't seem to realise is that it isn't the coach drivers who decide the itineries for coach companies. It is their own sales and marketing people who decide which towns will be visited and their information is based on feedback from their punters, who fill in their questionnaires at the end of each holiday. 

I think that coach parking at Sandy Lane is likely to remain the status quo for some time. Not from any positive decision by policy makers that it is the right solution, but rather the lack of investment necessary to make any of the possible alternatives viable.

Demand for alternative solutions comes from the Chamber of Trade.  Their members have daily contact with customers and coach drivers of these companies.  They tell us that they have real intelligence from these interactions that convince them that Dawlish is losing trade.  

I thought the coaches dropped off, and picked up, passengers outside Baileys. Yes? No? Some do at least - seen 'em doin' it. So who is complaining? The coach drivers or the holidaymakers?

And the leisure centre. What refreshment facilities does it have now? I haven't been in it since it was refurbished last school summer holidays(ahem) but am I right in thinking that what was once the small cafe is now something else?

@Lynne.  an important part of the coach holiday experience is the camaraderie that builds up between driver/guide and passengers.  i'm told that is why longer stops are programmed for towns where the driver doesn't have to leave them in the town centre and then drive back to the coach park.

 Dawlish gets the coffee stops where the coach can stop for shorter periods at Baileys.

The cafe at the Leisure Centre is a gym now.  I think the reference there was to the toilets though.  

Plan Teignbridge and the draft Neighbourhood Plan both identify coach parking at Barton as a desirable action for Regeneration, but as I say there is no funding for this so it is likely that Sandy Lane will remain as the default option for some time.

Well, funny you should say that Mcjrpc, as last year in a meeting of councillors and the new town centre manager I did suggest thinking about the Torquay Train that runs around the town and is very popular. I did suggest we could have our own version and it could run between the Warren and Dawlish calling in at Sandy Lane to pick up and drop off coach drivers. Well, I was laughed out of the council chamber so to speak!! Some people have no imagination, and that is the real problem in Dawlish!

As for feedback from coach companies, all tours get punters to fill in questionnaires at the end of their visit based on the towns they have visited. What we need to do is to work with the coach companies to find out what the punters say about Dawlish so we then know how to improve what we have to offer visitors. It really isn't rocket science!

How about offering the driver / guide free refreshments somewhere and simply talk to them.  They will be familiar with feedback plus their thoughts could be captured as well.

@Mcjrpc - now you mention it, i know of one town centre in surrey with a hilly high street where there has recently been introduced a free to ride electric buggy (bit like a large golf buggy).  it is sponsored by local businesses, popular and creative solution.  so it does already happen in this country as well.

@michaelclayson - letter emailed, sorry for the delay.