Dawlish Discussion

As promised, I have raised concerns raised by contributors to this site with Devon County Council.  The questions and their responses are shown below

Crossing Points

What is the required Industry Standard for carriage width? 

– 3m width

How wide is the space for vehicles at the crossing points? 

– our narrowest crossing point is 3.3m

Can you confirm that the road width at these points is sufficient for larger vehicles such as fire engines, delivery vehicles and the Town Bus to drive along the Strand? 

– yes the road width is sufficient

Who has the priority at these crossing points?  Pedestrians or vehicles?  How is this made clear? 

– vehicles have priority along The Strand, although crossing points have been constructed which are raised and will have a coloured surface to help de-mark. This will reduce the speed of cars and aid pedestrian movements.

Parking in Loading Bays

Please can you check whether information given previously is correct?

Reply - The below comments are all but correct. One of the loading bays is 9am till noon, with parking there after. This is the bay from No.6 to No. 9 (Bastins to Ladbrokes).  The other two loading bays are just for loading.

The Strand after construction finishes, will be 34no. this number includes all types of parking, so disabled, and loading bays (which most allow parking too). The parking will be all along the shop side, very similar to the current arrangements. All parking along The Lawns side has been removed.

How many spaces are reserved for Disabled Drivers?

There are x2 disabled spaces in The Strand, x2 more in the car park.

When is the Strand likely to re-open to traffic?

At present on course for the 10th, though we have some rain due later today/tomorrow which may push us back till Saturday.

Thank you for the clarification Michael, not so sure disabled drivers will be happy

Question for you Michael.

Is the vehicle access opposite Lloyds Bank onto the lawn being done away with?

@Carer    i'm happy to confirm it will still be there

The link below will take you the section of the Town Council website with a copy of the design

http://www.dawlish.gov.uk/edit/uploads/strandproposedworksthestrand1032.pdf

"To Michael",   I noticed last week that since we have wider pavements cars are parking halfway onto them assuming there's room for pedestrians to still pass!   Will "bollards/posts" be strategically placed along the pavement to stop cars from inconsiderate mounting?

       If not then I see no point to these so called pedestrian improvements! Also, originaly we were told that priority would be given to pedestrians crossing to and fro from lawn to shops.  Is this now no longer the case?

The Strand is a road not only that but the main road out of the town. Being a road and not a footpath by definition means that unless a recognised form of pedestrian crossing is provided as described in the highway code then motorists have priority. THe raised crossing areas are an obstruction and will undoubtably contribute to an accident before the end of the holiday season. Should such an accident cause personal injury or at worst a fatality then the highways authority could be sued. There are laws relating to what is known as Jay Walking and the council (Michael) need to ensure the crossing points are signed accordingly. In addition should the raised crossings be of a construction likely to cause damage to any motor vehicle then the road becomes unfit for purpose and once more could lead to legal compensation claims. 

There are no laws in the UK regarding "jay walking", because there is no such offence in this country.

@michaelclayson. for the benifit of doubt have just located the relavent document. before jtt leave site you may wish to review the legality of the raised crossing points, and if there is any uncertainty hold an emergency council meeting and request their removal.

Section 137 of the Highways Act 1980 - wilfull obstruction of the highway by items or persons specifically when the obstruction is not a motor vehicle.

This section refers to purposely slowing of motorists or willfully restricting free passage.

@ burnside - Sorry my mistake I meant to say rules not laws. The pedestrian section of the highway code does contatian rules, but aparantly these are not enforcable by law. However section 137 does cover diliberate obstruction even by pedestrians. The referance to Jaw Walking is of course American terminology but could not think of any other descriptor for it.

"FredBassett - willful obstruction", -- overstatement there of section 137! There's no obstruction as you well know, only "slow down speed humps". These are perfectly legal and used country wide for good reason.   

        Cars rule enough so for once let pedestrians feel a lttle safer crossing the road.  It is the responsibility of drivers to drive with due care and consideration for other road users and also to stop If a person is already crossing a road (as in a blind bend,etc), not run them over!  

 @michaelclayson.   keep the speed humps!     drivers need to be more considerate and stop speeding around everywhere at maximum speed they think they can get away with,even in a built up area like the strand!

@Alexcrossland - beg to differ speed humps are not legal and several authorities have been successfully sued for installing them thus causing damage to vehicals. the raised areas crossing the strand are not legitimate crossings as they are not being constructed as such therefore they are a wilfully placed obstructions. the point being made here is not about the speed vehicles travel down the strand as usually its nose to tail anyway. its about pedestrians being lulled into a false sense of security by the crossing points thus creating an accident waiting to happen.  

If crossing the Strand by pedestrians is considered to be a priority why are legally constructed pelican, tocon (call them what you will) crossings not being provided as all round the rest of the area. There would be no issue then would there.

@FredBassett    "speed humps" are legal mate! you seem intent on arguing!   

Set by the Department for Transport in 1999, they stipulate that speed humps must be a minimum of 2.5cm in height and a maximum of 10cm - though a height of between 6.5cm and 7.5cm is recommended by the Government.

There are  speed humps nationwide and I've seen no one being sued or told they must remove them! We've had them on the High street for 3 years now and they're still there! Your point of view seems to be from a motorists view and is bias! I am not hear to argue and whether you like or not pedestrians should feel free to cross the Strand in relative safety!   I agree there should be proper "pelican" crossings for sure and the council has bodged this somewhat as with a lot of things I see here!

I dont see the point in argueing about it!! in 12months time hardly any traffic will be going down The Strand anyway

@Brazilnut what a daft statement, traffic will of course still be using the strand, even if it is just to drive out of dawlish to shop elsewhere

Its as daft as a lot of other comments, what I said was there will hardly be any traffic, in other words not as much as used to be,cos as you say they will be shopping elsewhere, so as we are all using other routes now most probly will then,

@Alexcrossland

There are no plans for Bollards.  The problems with cars parking on the new pavement arose because of the temporary tarmac levels making it possible.   If you look at the road levels when the work is completed you will see more of the normal distance from kerb height to road level

As per the earlier information posted above, the vehicles have absolute priority, but the design at crossing points is intended to encourage drivers to be considerate of the needs of pedestrians

Yellow lines painted, tarmac looks finished, will it be open for morning?

ITS OPEN

Yes, it's open but not yet finished. What are the plans for the walkway through the lawn and what's happening adjacent to the Ugly Duckling?

Here's one of the pics I took this morning...

The slopes down to the Lawn are yet to be graded, and Teignbridge will then plant them up

There will still be a path leading through the Lawn, as before, and there will be steps and ramps to the new lawn side pavement

Teignbridge will also be landscaping the area next to the Ugly Duckling cafe

I must admit it was a smooth ride down the Strand early this morning, hardly noticed the raised walkways