Looks a bit narrow!
Agree!!! cant see how the big delivery/refuse lorries or fire engine are going to get through without mounting pavement, pedestrianisation!!!!! This was the one oppurtunity to get it right for the good of the town, as far as I can see its a cock up, sorry if some of you think thats negative, but I was positive at the start but have gradually become totally disallusioned with it all. What does the Town Council say about it all, and seen no comments from the new Town Manager or does she spend all her time in Teignmouth?
There is an element of perspective to this. Last night I walked with my dog down the centre of the Strand and in reality the point you've photographed is wider than the picture suggests.
That said, I am posing questions to the Project Manager about the Industry design standard for road width and asking for reassurance that the space is wide enough for larger vehicles such as those described by Brazilnut in her post.
I will post the reply I get on this site for everyone to read
VERY NAUGHTY MICHAEL
.It seems a Tweeny. Not one thing nor tother,possibly a total waste of money.
As if we didn't already know???!!!!!!!!!!!! (the exclamations are for your benefit Brazilnut as you are so fond of using them)
edit - I see the original post has now been changed.
These wide points are where the "raised" pedestrian crossings will be situated to allow the safe movement of pededestrian movement between shop front and lawn park! This narrowing will indeed slow the traffic as intended and is not an oversight detrimental to motorists but for the safety of pedestrians which most vehicle owners overlook!
This has been well thought out with "Priority" given to pedestrians and also tourists and works both ways in allowing people to safely cross over to the lawn but also allow people/tourists,visitors to visit the shops from the parks!
Cars have a large impact on society in general with little regards to people who have been here for eons. The council has done an admirable job and offered a "compromise" for all concerned!
It was a slip of the tongue, but as you can see I've edited it out as it clearly bothers you
I find it hard to take this secret names stuff seriously and would be surprised if most of us haven't by now worked out from the content of messages who most of the regular contributors are. But each to their own
@ burnside maybe you would like to reveal your real name, and wondering lets have yours in fact lets have everybodys real names whilst we are about it
Does anybody know if present time have started selling parachutes yet?
believe it or not michael I havnt worked out who anybody is, I know a few posters but that is all. I respect peoples anonimity
And still nobody willing to answer the question why have we not got what we voted for and what was the point of spending loads of money on the public consultation. Could we also see a copy of the road traffic order permitting the so called pedestrian priority crossings because they arent shown on any of the original plans. Pedestrianisation by the back door which is what all three authorities wanted in the first place. Hope the few remaining shop keepers can earn enough during the Summer to see them through Winter when the town centre will become deserted. Anyone want a lift to Teignmouth tomorrow.
the plans for the Strand works are available on the town council website. You can also ask to see them at the Libray and I expect that they are still available on the Devon County website.
I've just looked again to check my facts, and the narrowing of the Strand at the crossing points is as shown on the plans
you wont get anywhere on here Fred, the town council have taken over
Tell me about it, that was their intention from the outset wasent it. Wait till all the shops are empty and the two remaining banks have gone. Guess who will be first to say it wasent our fault. Someone keeps harping on about the plans, but these are not the same plans contained in the options which people at the public consultation were asked to express a preferance on. The original plans were scrapped because the one which got the majority interest was not the one the three levels of authority wanted.
Question still not answered
The narrow parts of the Strand are great - they'll slow traffic down and give pedestrians more space. I'm looking forward to seeing it all finished. So far it's looking good.
It may be that i am missing the point but if car parking is cut by half does that not mean a reduction in people shopping and therefore a reduction in the amount of cash being spent in The Strand
Just went to pub for a small libation and I have to inform you all what might not
be on the plans is Fanfare Please The new water feature outside the Co-op.
I have to say it'll take more than putty to block this little ejaculation.
Thats why the supermarket has 260 parking spaces. They now have what they wanted in return for building a store in Dawlish, 100% domination of shopping. The town centre is being re-developed into nothing more than a meeting place where you can sit in the sun and enjoy a cup of coffee. Unfortunatley local folk have niether the time or the money to spend on such a luxury on a regular basis, and by September the tourists will be gone. What then?
Maybe Fred there is a thriving business for a Sub Aqua or wet suit shop.
Take it the contractors have ruptured the water main or something then
Well Fred as the cone was floating down the road the ducks were floating up.
Trevi fountains come to Dawlish.
Sounds pretty good fun is it worth coming down for a look
Well Fred in true Dawlish fashion its not quite the Trevi fountains more a lot of water
ejaculating out of the ground,but without the figures.
But for a price I will adorn the ejaculation dressed only in a loincloth and a hunting
horn borrowed from the local mans.
Good luck with that one, watch out for the pretend Police just in case they come out of their Brunswick communication and shower shop.
The more the merrier I can knock up a Lire any nymphets available?
The major problem with the pedestrian 'crossing' points is that they don't actually signify anything. They're not Crossing Points in the normal sense (i.e. Zebra, Pelican, Puffin, Toucan or Pegasus) so they are ambiguous.
As many people believe, they do not give priority to pedestrians but merely raise a driver's attention to the point by having red coloured tarmac. A Drop Kerb does not give priority either.
I have had family members who have been shouted at by pedestrians for not giving way to them but as far as I can tell these are not 'official' highway markings but something local councils have brought in. A trawl through road safety sites on the net gives no clues either.
To me - because of the ambiguity they cause - they are more dangerous than if they weren't there as they create the possibility of misguided pedestrians diving out in front of cars whose drivers are not intending to stop.
@Huw - Youre absolutly right there. The reason its been done that way is to save the trouble of appling to the dept of transport for a road traffic order allowing priorities to change. The entire project is just an accident waiting to happen and its beyond the realms of health and safety how it ever got the go ahead (but we are talking local authorities here). Wait till one of our elderly drivers hits the raised section unaware and dabs the throttle flying into a crowd of pedestrians, or a powered mobility scooter goes off the edge of the new footpath onto the lawn. The stupid tourists allready walk in the road around town and have no idea how to use the crossing outside Harrisons. There is seriously someone going to get killed this summer and as usual its likely the mortorist will get the blame.
The contractors really messed up yesterday & today. You couldn't get from one side of the Lawn to the other so therefore all the visitors were walking up one side, missing the main shops on the Strand & not bothering to get up to the bowling green to cross over. According to Jen in the sweet shop, a lot of trade was missed so what do the council have to say about that?
The traders on the Strand are encouraged to raise any concerns they have about the construction work directly with the Project Manager or with the Town Centre Manager. They can approach the Council for further help if they do not find this sufficient. I am not aware that any trader has complained about the service they are getting from either of these two people.
Would it be presumptious of me to suggest that maybe the Councillors and Town Centre Manager go down The Strand and actually talk to the shopkeepers and ask them what its doing to them, instead of them approaching you. Maybe thats too simple
The Town Centre Manager does just that. For Councillors to duplicate that process would I suspect just cause confusion. The proverbial too many cooks spoling the broth.
Speaking personally, I shop regularly on the Strand and talk to traders all the time as a customer. I'd like to think that Jen and others know me well enough to raise any concerns they have.
You just dont listen to people or answer their questions all you ever do is pass the book as above
Why are we not getting what the people who expressed a preferance wanted, just answer the question.
After all you are the originating voice for Dawlish
If you dont know then may I suggest that its your job to find out
Before the final tarmac goes in get rid of the footpath to nowhere and provide the paralell parking we want and opted for
what do the authorities not understand about what the people who pay their wages want
@ Fred, I think the Town Councillors are a waste of time, and wish I had never been persuaded to vote for them. At least I wont ever again
It has been explained several times that your recollection of facts is wrong and misses out key steps of the consultation process.
The previous Conservative/Lib Dem administration on the Town Council voted to support "Timed Access" to the Strand, which meant Pedestrianisation. It was Voices for Dawlish Councillors who lobbied hard after the May 2011 election to have the consultation process re-opened because we knew there was a lot of disquiet in the town about that plan.
As I understand it you are specifically referring to the issue of herring bone parking, which was one of the options examined in the re-run consultation process. Devon County Council examined the issue and it was found to be impractical (Dawlish Gazette, September 21st 2011 - "Strand's echelon parking a no-go")
Two options were then put to the public in November 2011, neither of which had the herring bone parking. Opinion was equally divided between the two ("Split response to Regeneration Plan" Dawlish Gazette November 16th 2011)
This led to Devon County Council making a final decision in February 2012 to go ahead with the plan we have now.
Thank you for understanding. I shouldnt worry about having to vote next time. The way things are going we wont have a town nor will we need a council. Once all the proposed houses are built and the town centre becomes a summer play park for the lucky few who have nothing better to do than sit about drinking expensive coffee, we will just be an extension of Exeters sprawl. A dumping ground for all and sundry in an effort to reduce the council house waiting list. Nobody asks why there are no affordable Barratt sheds being built in Holcombe were several of our ever silent councillors live. They all have to be around the supermarket that Dawlish needed so much but nobody can afford to shop at. The place is becoming a joke and its such a shame. I wish someone would start an action group capable of actually doing something unlike DARE who seem to have gone as quiet as the Voices (book passers) of Dawlish.
@ micheal. Once again youre fudging the issue. Full pedestrianisation was thrown out by the highways authority as there was no realistic alternate route around the town. Devon county council provided no proven reason why the echelon parking could not be provided, they just didnt want that option after being told they had to keep the Strand open to traffic. If memory serves me right didnt the dept responsible at DCC throw their toys out of the pram saying that if their plan wasent accepted then the funding would be withdrawn and spent elsewhere. What ever way you twist it DCC, TDC and DTC got their own way and the people of Dawlish that bothered to express an intrest didnt.
Getting confused? Me 'n all. Please can someone tell us if there is to be parking in the Strand or not. If yes,
1. Which side of the Strand?
2. How many spaces?
3. Whereabouts on the Strand?
4. Will it be free and if so for how long?
5. What about the Strand car park - will cars parked there have a free period of time?
I thought I knew the answers to 1. and 4. (same side as the shops and first 30 minutes to be free). Has that changed now then?
PS and Fred, will all know you hate Sainsbury's. But why do you say that nobody can afford to shop there?
PPS and how many of our councillors live in Holcombe? You say several, but I only know of the one. What others live there then? Have any others moved there recently?
@Lynne - maybe the odd few like yourself can afford to shop at sainsburys. there will always be people who dont have to shop on a fixed budget and pay no attention to prices etc. im not talking about those who pop in for a snack or the odd item. on average i would say they are between 2 and 5 pence per item more expensive than morrisons teignmouth. their fuel is constantly 2 pence dearer. in addition has anyone else noticed that since the holiday camps opened fully most of their buy two offers etc have been removed. they came to dawlish because they thought that it was similar to areas of london lots of wealthy people, living in big houses with no need to worry about money. ask anyone who has worked in a supervisory role for them how they price goods to suit certain stores and how they meet their sales and profitability targets. you may be suprised how ruthless they are and what they really think about their customers. shareholders are king, not customers.
@Fred - you talk of my household's finances. As you have absolutely no knowledge whatsoever of my household finances I wonder how you feel able to make the comment that you do in your opening sentences above.
If enough people don't shop at Sainsbury's and go to Morrison's instead I am sure Sainsbury's will soon get the message.
By the way, you haven't answered my questions re parking on the Strand and the number of Dawlish councillors who live in Holcombe.
Answers to questions
1. Parking will be on the shops side of the Strand
2. 34 spaces, (This includes loading bays which can be parked in by anyone and spaces reserved for disabled drivers where restrictions apply)
3. The spaces will broadly be where they were before the work started
4. There will be 30 mins free parking on the Strand. You will need to get a free ticket from the machines to validate the time you arrived (like at some train stations)
5. The Strand car park will also have 30 mins free parking
In addition to this provision there will still be up to 90 minutes free parking in the Co-Op car park so long as you buy something in their store. Rippling from this is the parking on Brunswick and also at the Barton Car Park. For those that wish to avail themselves there is the option to buy an Annual Permit for the cost of £30 which enables you to park in the Barton Car Park without a ticket before 10am and after 4pm
I don't have that exact figure in front of me, but will find out and report back
You have to smile. Two years ago people were saying Sainsburys will be the end of the town ..it was like the world was about to come to an end lol. Who would have thought two years on there would be posts saying its expensive. I think the town is better for a 'proper' supermarket and dont know why it should be a town without one. I still like Asda best ..no points cards or gimmics and staff welcoming and good at customer services
@wondering - spot on asda is the best supermarket by far, but thats partly due to the american influence imparted by their owners wallmart.
Its hasent always been like that, they used to be pile it high sell it cheap and their stores where awfull.
Teignmouth still made the sensible choice by taking the middle ground and adopting Morrisons. Lovely store, enough choice without being overbearing and not cheap but affordable prices. A small ASDA in Dawlish would be a welcome alternative for shure
@michaelclayson can you clarify please your comment about loading bays being available for anyone to park in? my understanding of them was that there are quite specific restrictions on who can and cannnot park in loading bays and as someone who does on occasion drive a commercial vehicle and needs to use loading bays there is nothing more annoying that finding all the loading bays full of ordinary cars who are not delivering or loading up with anything under the restrictions in place.
@FredBassett some of us do actually like sainsburys or even dare i mention in tesco for shopping because you get the points from them. i save mine up and spend them at christmas each year and i know plenty of other people who do the same thing. the benefit of having a range of supermarkets within easy reach is that they are all competing for your business and so are far more likely to have offers on to tempt you to use them. tesco in newton abbot for example are having to fight much harder for business these days than they did even 5 years ago and that can only be a good thing.
Yes I knew it's American and that have adopted their 'polite' staff customer services in stores here.
I have to say when I go to Sainsburys and get a voucher.. saying it 'would have been cheaper at Asda' ,,thats soooo annoying, to get a 50p voucher to go back and spend there and get another I guess!
Think Tesco lost customers because they often have grumpy staff, I never shop there.
Afraid Asda policy is to not open a store in a small population town anymore than M and S will.
Sorry gone off topic a bit ...will have a walk down The Strand later today and see what its like now.
Page 13 suggests that unless otherwise specified, loading bays can be used by cars but only to collect goods after purchase and not before.
that was my understanding of it @Mcjrpc - that you cannot just park there to pop into a shop to buy something, or wait in the space while someone else pops to the shops, which is what happens a lot. you can though collect goods that have already been purchased or park there to make deliveries/collections if you are a commercial vehicle as long as you only stay there a reasonable time for the delivery/collection you are doing
Blocking loading bays with other general parking just creates more problems on the roads and stress and hassle for shopkeepers
Walked down half the Strand ...no wonder you all are so annoyed. What a bloomin mess and I cant see how the town will benefit from it when its done at all.
@DJ re loading bays
I was quoting information provided by Devon County Council to me and others
For example, in a previous Strand topic, Brazilnut (1st March 2013) quotes receiving the following advice from Devon County Council about the number of spaces to be provided on the Strand
"Thanks for your email, with regards to the number of parking spaces available in The Strand after construction finishes, will be 34no. this number includes all types of parking, so disabled, and loading bays (which most allow parking too). The parking will be all along the shop side, very similar to the current arrangements. All parking along The Lawns side has been removed.
Now that you have queried the information provided, I will go back and ask that it is checked.
Will The Strand work be done in time for the Party in the Park 2013 on the spring bank holiday (25-27/05/2013)?
Thats when the opening ceremony is on the 25th so it should be
Has anyone else noted that there is a complete absence of litter bins along The Strand apart from the Co-op one's and maybe one outside the One Stop shop although I do not remember seeing this one today. Also where are the smokers going to put their fags out with no ash bin dispensors evident either?
complete cock up, wheres Michael Clayson ? conspicuos by his absence also when is the ok coral being replaced, and the mud banks planted
oops forgot those
None of the above are likely, rumour around the town is they've run out of money. Spent it on illeagal pay and display parking meters.
Why do you think the comments from councillors have ceased.
Please spill the beans Fred...how are they illegal? You could save a number of Dawlishians a good deal of money!
The new machines are designed specifically for use in private car parks where the posted terms and conditions of parking are agreed to by purchasing a non-transfereable ticket. Hence the requirement for having part of your vehicle reg no the ticket
On street parking is open public parking there is no requirement to identify your vehicle and once you have paid for a fixed amount of parking time the vehicle to which the ticket is attached is irrelevent, therefore transfereable.
In order to change the rules if at all posible to do so from the old machines a road traffic order (parking) should have been applied for and notices of change to the new parking rules posted as any normal planning application. Also adjacent to each machine there needs to be an easily readable sign stating the rules, the name of the parking control operator, the operators permit no, and an emergency contact number.
All they need to do in real terms is reprogramme the machines removing the need to put in part of your reg no
I wonder what will now happen to the Pay & Display machines they (DCC) purchased two years ago for £250.000
FredBassett These type of machines are used for onstreet parking all over Devon you will find them in Newton Abbot in Paignton i was in Illfracombe yesterday they have them there so are they all illegal. A further point is that tickets obtained from the old machines where non transferable at the end of the day whats the problem in entering your reg does it matter not a jot as far as i am concerned. My final word if you dont like it shop at Sainsburys there are no machines there.
At long last, they are UP.
There may be hope for the 'mud banks' now.
I thought somebody said all the money had run out and nothing more was going to be done.
The Council paid for the hanging baskets.
well done council
Well what a commotion going on. I have been unable to check on the comings and goings on in Dawlish as I have been in the USA since May 15th so I have not as yet seen the finished product and won't see it until I'm back July 11th. Perhaps I might see it from a different angle. Ziggy any chance you could post some updated photo's please.
Oh and by the way my name is John.
So who is the person to contact re planting of the banks? I'm happy to make a nuisance of myself until it's resolved.
try John Clatworthy DCC Councillor, Bob Vickery, Terry Lowther,Town Councillor Ros Prowse TDC and Town Council
Had a convo with aholiday visitor today, said shes been visiting Dawlish since a child, her comment was "what an earth have they done to the Town, all its character has gone"
I see we now have some nice new litter bins along the Strand and the Lawn along the path adjacent to the Strand.
The Strand looks rather good except for the cheap farmyard wooden fencing.
Hopefully it is only temporary?
I personally am not too keen on whats been done, but as I hardly go there now, my opinion doesnt matter
I can see no point to it at all, except that it matches the path system on the Brunswick side. Maybe they had money that had to be spent somewhere.
Last weekend I went to Andover, Hampshire, just a small town...has a multi storey car park built to link directly into an indoor shopping centre with big name shops like M and S with independants .. I only saw two empty shops and two charity shops. The older shopping area is car free, so it really does attract traders. It was good to walk around without the boy racers around. Well it works for shops there anyway, as it does in Exeter and Newton.. I know Dawlish loves its cars and parking outside shops.
The Strand now is.. what people wanted.. but has not had any impact on attracting retailers and so people to the town..
From what I understand, the wooden fencing is only temporary.
How long 'tempory' means, is anybodys guess. LOL.
Its nothing to do with cars and parking, the reason we still have empty derilict shops is entirely the landlord and owners fault. Its the same reason why some of them didnt join the scheme to have their shop frontage paved to match the rest of the footpath. The chances are they make enough money by renting the flats above the shops and so dont care about spending anything on the retail side.
It would be good if TDC / DTC could get some central government funding to instigate a programme of compulsorary purchase. We often hear on here about affordable houses, so what about affordable retail units.
In the meantime the empty shops should be boarded over with maybe vynal wrap scenes of Dawlish displayed on them
I know that Ladbrokes get nothing from renting the appartment above their shop, theyve left it empty and falling into disrepair since they took the premises on 10yrs ago, its criminal when people are crying out for homes
Would be interesting to know how many other empty apartments there are in Dawlish ...meanwhile, developers continue to build new homes that most
locals cannot afford!
Perhaps TDC's Empty Homes Officer might be interested in knowing about any empty homes in Dawlish?
On the point that Fred B makes about empty shops and scenes of Dawlish............ I was in T'mouth yesterday and noticed that the shop which used to house New Look and which is still empty is covered in scenes advertising T'mouth. I thought at the time what a good use of an empty shop - stops it being an eyesore.
Perhaps the Empty Homes Officer can do something about the old vicarage in Weech Road. I don't know if it qualifies as being empty though, what with the pigeons, rats & vagrants who've taken up residence there!
Cassandra its been empty as long as i can remember i have been inside a few times in a professional capacity it was a realy great building but i believe there is some problem between developers and Teighnbridge.
If the old vicarage is listed, perhapsowners/ developers are waiting until its so far gone it can be knocked down? just like the signal box on the station.
Found this. It shows why, @2006/2007, it was decided that the building should not be demolished.
About 6 months ago all the slates were removed from one half of the main roof.
I suspect that conservation may not be at the top of the current owners plans...
Don't know who owns it now but looking at the document that I've given the link for (see above) it looks as though whoever owned it in 2006 wanted to demolish it but were prevented from doing so by TDC. The owners then Appealed the TDC decision but lost the Appeal. (at least that's how the document reads to me).
So its probaby a 'waiting game' for the owners. If the building continues to deterioate then TDC will have
another application for its demolition in a few years time .......In that case, what it the point of having conservation areas and
listed buildings? no one seems to be interested, unless of course its a new housing development of boxes. Sorry folks, rant over!