General Discussion
Shop Move
The Animal in Distress charity shop is moving to the empty Bits and Bobs shop in the Strand in a couple of weeks time.
If the Strand regeneration is going to be a success and the money well spent, then the council need to take action right now to rid the town centre of all charity shops. They lower the tone of the area and contribute nothing to the shopping experience needed to attract spending tourists.
Just as an example would any of them like to post on here how much of the takings raised by their Dawlish shops was actually spent locally, and on what.
I wonder if another estate agent/cafe/food related/bookmakers had opened up there instead. would you be happier?
The point isent about what makes me or anyone else happy, its about whats best for Dawlish. Re-generation is an oppertunity for something new, which is exactly what the new Strand needs. Charity shops are nothing but a feature of an area in decline, and do little if anything for the town itself as you will undoubtably see if any respond to my challenge.
Clearly Charity shops tick the boxes for Dawlish. Before 'Bita and Bobs' if was Davidsons a quality brand name toy shop. You could buy Lego, Thomas the tank, Games etc..a large selection of Puzzles at the rear of the shop..Ravensburg, Waddingtons etc. Clearly this kind of shop does not work in Dawlish...because people always think they can buy cheaper by going to a larger town. So the shops just have to be Charity/Food/Estate Agents/Bookies ..cant see what else can work.
Charity shops are run by well meaning amateurs and regrettably they are given no guidance by the Charity themselves.
Those that do advise are a welcome addition to a town, but unfortunately, Dawlish seems to have attracted some of the worst which will pull the town further down and deter shopkeepers.
The Red Cross shop and the new one at Threshers are well lit and welcoming but most of the rest are little more than permanent jumble sales. Are they a Fire or Health and Safety risk?.
Perhaps they should all be approached and asked to agree to keep a high standard of appearance. If the two above would sign up surely the rest would follow.
The Council can do nothing. They are retail outlets and planning permission is not required. The cost of the bun fight to re-open the Strand would pay for a bylaw to be passed at Teignbridge to bring these shops under more control but then the local councillors wouldn't be able to get their picture in the paper and their expenses would only be "Attending meeting at Newton Abbot"
If something is not done then the regeneration scheme is a waste of money.
If I want a chat nowadays I'm more likely to meet people I know at Sainsbury's where the parking is free.
Just hoping for a miracle.
Just in case you didn't know
Charity shops pay no business rates thus meaning the existing businesses have to pay more.
As I understand they are zero rated for VAT
Therefore
The Uk taxpayers receives from a charity shop
No business rates
No VAT
No employers National Insurance
No corporation Tax
In the business world we see people set up small businesses, sometimes they don't work, usually these people try something else, sometimes this doesn't work, I'm led to believe these people then go out and start a charity shop.
So the moral of the story is if you want to run a business but your not good enough to make it work call it a charity shop.
For information
I asked Teignbridge Planning
(1) Does a charity need permission to open a charity shop? Answer, no if the shop has already got Class A1 designation as a shop
(2) Does the District Council have any powers to restrict the number? Answer NO
(3) Are there any legal powers currently unadopted by the District Council which if they did adopt would increase their ability to deal with (1) and (2) above? Answer NO there are no legal powers that could be adopted
I merely pass on the information given. If anyone thinks this is wrong information I am happy to take this up, but you will need to give me chapter and verse of the relevant law that could be exercised.
Urban blight springs to mind but I don't suppose it is relevent. Just because the council say "No" doesn't mean the town has to lay down and die. The shabby must be somehow encouraged to improve their act before other businesses give up and go away.
Perhaps this could be one of the first jobs for the new town manager.
I have posted on this subject before on charity shops. Don't misunderstand me i have donated to charity shops both here in Dawlish and in the USA. They do have a role to play but not to the extent that has happened in Dawlish. I do agree with Fredbasset it is an indication of an area in decline. I did post on this subject twice. Once was in the Dawlish Gazette a year ago about ( Welcome to Charity) not Dawlish. And posted a comment a couple of weeks ago stating that it was great that the Dawlish was having this regeneration, but you must have the right mix of stores for tourist's and locals to spend the money. Ask yourself what stores do you go in when on holiday? I doubt a charity shop.
@ Michael
Thank you for your input making it quite clear that the town council cannot take any action to stem the tide. However all is not lost here. As these charity shops only survive because of donations and volunteers the way to rid our lovely town of these degrading establishments seems simple. Dont donate any stock to them and dont volunteer to run them, better still dont buy from them. My opinion is that once there gone and the new Strand and lawn area mature more new and higher class businesses will come along. This depending on landlords offering their shops at a reasonable rent and yourself Mr Clayson using the council as a levering tool to provide the required amount of parking for visitors and ridding our town of the vermin traffic wardens who incidently have the same effect as the charity shops.
Just watching the news to see that a district council has passed a bylaw to stop spitting in the street.
Perhaps the question to the council officers ( who actually run things, not the councilors) should be to find a way to make the charities adopt a more professional approach to their shop keeping.
My father always said to me "There is no such word as can't"
Gosh... As somebody who works for a charity who's had a shop in Dawlish for some time, can I put some things straight above? I do understand, and actually share, some of these concerns, but there's some quite wrong things being said here at a technical level. Next post will address reasons.
Most charities certainly do have control over their shops and wouldn't give their name (and branding) over to somebody else to abuse. Charities rely on their reputation.
Charity shops don't generally pay rates (although in some areas it's just greatly reduced).
The council has zero input on who occupies a shop unless they happen to own the building. This is privately owned business, mostly.
Employers contributions, national insurance - ARE PAID. Charity employees are no different than anyone else's and subject to the same tax laws and employment law. That said, some shops are staffed solely by volunteers, but many charities pay managers.
Charity shops provide a social service - gossipping and interaction for the old folk, a way to recycle and re-use unwanted items for all.
So why are high streets being "overrun" with charity shops? This is a national issue from the smallest town to the biggest city. Personally I think any one style of shop is bad for variety. Professionally, too much competition is bad!
It's simple. The high street is dying. Big chains and traditional businesses are liquidising on a weekly, sometimes daily basis. The internet is to blame, of course, or rather, those who choose to use the internet to shop rather than visiting the high street. This will get worse and in my view, no amount of artificial regeneration will return high streets to the goldenly-remembered butcher-baker-candlestickmaker days of yesteryear. These businesses are less and less sustainable and days go by and will vanish.
Charity shops only become viable because their operating costs are typically lower, and as mentioned, pay less or no rates making margins possible. But here's the thing - if they didn't occupy the site, the site would remain empty. Forget any thoughts you have about them denying a thriving business a place to set up, those businesses are few and far now. It's them or empty boarded up shops. Charity shops enter because nobody else can make a viable business there and pay the going rates - with so much competition amongst charity shops, margins for even them are shrinking as donations are split amongst so many.
Landlords have to pay business rates on empty shops. Becuase of this, they are sometimes letting charities use their shops entirely free of rent. In some cases I'm aware of, landlords are actually PAYING charities to use their shop! The landlord cannot let it to anyone else, and by sweetening the deal to the charity removes himself of the rates liability.
This is an unusual and unsustainable position, and I think that within a year or two you'll see charity shops closing and shops being turned into residences. In five or ten years time, the high street will be different even than it is today, which in turn is different to what it was five years ago. If more diverse businesses were lining up to occupy the site, charities would not be able to compete for rent. Landlords will always try to get the best return on their investment.
A whoe nation has changed its shopping habits, what you're seeing in Dawlish is repeated everywhere else. The high street is adjusting to consumer demand. If you don't like it now, stick around - it'll be different again soon and you might like the next iteration less. It'll certainly be quieter!
(Views my own, not my employer, etc)
Shops have already been turned into residences (Old Town area springs to mind) in Dawlish and this process will probably continue further into the town. Think I'm right in saying that the shop that used to house the gift shop "Inspirations" up until 2009(ish) on Brunswick has been converted into a dwelling. And so, no doubt, the process will continue.
How many corner shops (both literally and metaphorically speaking) still exist from when many of us were kids? All over the country many have been converted into places to live.
Around the lawn could become a very attractive residential area in the not too distant future. Houses/flats overlooking a green landscaped area, a babbling brook, a bowling green. And a few minutes walk away is the railway station (ideal for commuting) and the beach. With perhaps just a few shops here and there.
An estate agents dream.
If i may answer a point put forward by (SA). You state that the employees are paid. I think not ! the only employee to be paid is normally the manger. As to the othere's (volunteers) please explain to me how the said volunteer's can pay thier national insurance if they are not paid a wage? let alone pay tax on a non-excistent wage. Next landlords, where you state that the landlords pay the charity shop to be there do you know why? I will tell you why they can claim a tax loss on thier property. The landlord may be able to be exempt from rates as you put it, but not from HMCE in other words the taxman. Any upscale retailer once they have done thier demographics of the town and see the decline they would not open any business here. This is not just Dawlish but throughout the UK. I suggest that one google's the goverment requirments on charity shops.
Have you actually read what SA wrote Brooklyn Bridge rather than being snide? Employees of a charity are not confined to those in the shop. SA made it quite clear that those in the shop are often volunteers. You only have to look at the local job adverts to see that lots of charities employ people. Perhaps if the government actually funded a decent amount of research and support many of these charities wouldn't need to exist. As someone who has been given help by a health charity I find your contempt for them frankly offensive.
Brooklyn; I said many managers are paid - you make the same point but indicate I was wrong. Not sure how, if you read what I wrote rather than would you seem to think I wrote!
Also, volunteers are not employees.
You may be right about landlords claiming a tax loss, I'm not a landlord of shops. They'll have to declare the payment to HMRC (They stopped being called HMCE in 2005) and it's obvious there are benefits to them for doing so; they're not paying charities out of the goodness of their heart - but I don't accept it's a sustainable position. From the two landlords I have spoken to on this they're doing it because they cannot find new tenants, nor can they sell the property for what they consider a good value. They're all searching for new tenants and the lease will typically be on a month's notice so if a "normal" business does turn up, they charity's given notice. This is just business. Anyone, landlord or tenant, who doesn't play the game won't be around for long.
Charity shops are a symptom of decline, not the cause - a point that is often misunderstood.
Woolbrook's point about "Well lit and inviting" for two of the charity shops is an interesting one. Industry research (Mostly Association of charity shops/Charity Retail Assc) suggests that this the "jumble sale" style shop is often more profitable in many areas and people associate it with bargains. Bright lights and posh fittings cost money which isn't going to the cause and this "turns off" some customers who use the shops to support the specific charity. Typically the poorer areas support "messy" shops better, and "clean" shops with fewer items at a much higher marked price do better in the posh areas.
Both styles have their supporters and detractors, but there is often considerable psychology involved, especially by the bigger chains. Don't assume they're all "run by amateurs". Although the profits are sometimes very small and getting smaller with the competition; for some sites they're significant. Being the only charity shop in the village is a dream, but there are very few places left now without several.
I see so it will be OK to trash the whole town so that the scruffier charity shops can make a bigger profit. Perhaps by letting the roads deteriorate and by not carrying out any maintenance in the town Dawlish can make it's name as a slum tourist attraction.
Just for the record I am not against charity shops, I just want them to clean up their act to the benefit of the whole community and not just the bargain hunters and car-booters who use them.
Would it be fair to say that the main reason some of the better known charity shops employ a paid manager, is to filter out the valuable items donated locally and put them aside for transfere to the more profitable shops in better areas. I say this as I overheard this type of conversation taking place in the back room of a shop in Teignmouth not so long ago.
I think it true to comment that there are no bargins to be had in Dawlish charity shops only other peoples unwanted rubbish.
Might it be the case that as well as all the other reasons given above for the increase in the numbers of charity shops all over the country as well as here in Dawlish, that another reason for their proliferation is that there is a demand for them.
If no demand then they wouldn't exist because there would be no reason for them to exist and they would go out of business
Or is that too simple an analysis?
Lynne ..that makes perfect sense. People do use charity shops. If they closed there would be many empty shops in towns. Trouble is whatever a town has nobody likes it. In this age of internet buying I cant see any point with all the costs in opening a shop anymore, If anyone thinks its a good idea ..then go for it but its all about getting enough in to pay all the costs and will there be anything at all at the end of a week for yourself...for the best part the profits just pay the expenses and staff if you have any. If you have no staff you are still expected to be open 7 days a week,,oh joy!
Your idea of residential is the best bet...
@Fred
Main reason from my experience is to employ a paid manager because volunteers are overall less reliable or don't like to do certain aspects of the job - like the adding up, training, covering illness in other shops, banking, buying supplies, ensuring H&S legislation is obeyed (COSSH) etc. Great volunteers certainly exist, but the ones that can run a shop and do all the other little jobs day after day without needing to earn money to support themselves are few and far between - and with so many charity shops, harder to attract.
Valuable items: Nothing to do with whether a manager is paid or not, but the charity has an obligation to the donator to get the best price for donated items. Sometimes that means selling elsewhere (A high quality fashionable ladies dress may sell for double in particular area, where customers are looking for that sort of thing, for example. Some items might be sold on Ebay (irony of ironies!) and the occasional item at an auction house. But bargains definitely exist in charity shops.