General Discussion

My husband was talking to someone who used to run a boxing club for young people, he said it was always full. The council in their wisdom sold the premises, and it folded. I think it would be good for young men to learn a sport get rid of pent up aggression in a controlled way. I know martial arts seem to be the 'in' thing, but boxing is a noble sport. Anyone agree with me.?

no @fannyann - since you asked, i dont agree with you. watching 2, usually underpriviledged, young men beat the crap out of each other for the entertainment of others strikes me as being repulsive. i cant see that boxing is a noble sport nor do i think that its participants make good role models for other (again, usually underpriviledged) young men.

Hey snobby, better than kicking the f... out of each other in the Landsdown. !And perhaps they could defend themselves against the yob culture that exsists in Dawlish and most other towns and Cities.

Hey hey hey - less of the snobby please - you asked and I dont agree - that doesnt make me a snob anymore than you encouraging boxing makes you a yob

@Libby

You lot are like a load of kids . Why bother with this if all you do is pick at each other.

ahh Sniper - as usual your articulate, intelligent, wise, thoughtful, thoroughly considered, well reasoned, insightful, and helpful intervention is a lesson in integrity to us all. Your posts are such a joy .......

See what i mean. You should take up boxing , Make a man of you.

Oh dear Sniper sexist as well as ignorant. This is a forum for people to discuss and debate issues intelligently. that is what a forum is a platform for debate.

This is a forum for people to discuss and debate issues intelligently.

But you don't do you.

in response to fannyann's boxing thread, i actually agree. boxing clubs have historically been a great platform for young men to learn dicipline, fitness and respect in a safe environment, i think the emphasis is on the training rather than actual fights.

pethaps fannyann's snob comment referred to the fact that libby stated people who box are usually under-priviledged, which is a rather narrow minded and ill informed thing to say and boxing certainly doesn't define 'yobism'.

we are of course entiled to our own opinions of course. it's what makes the world go round and there's nothing unintelligent about that!

@lighthouse - as this is something i do happen to know something about i can tell you that it is an indisputable fact that there is a link between low socioeconomic background and boxing. there is also a link between ethnicity and boxing with many young men from african caribbean backgrounds seeing professional sport, in particular football and boxing, as a means to improve their social mobility. to say so is neither racist nor narrowminded and ill informed. i might suggest that you use the evidence of your own eyes to notice the social class and ethnic background of the vast majority of 'professional' fighters. its not rocket science.

@Libby you're missing my point - i was talking about the fact that the craft of something like boxing is a very useful tool for shaping fitness and dicipline and self worth etc, especially in today's social climate and especially somewhere like dawlish, or any other provincial small town where violence and anti social behaviour is rife. i wasn't starting a socioeconomic debate, but regardless of the social background of a boxer, young or old, professional or not, the craft and skill itself is not to be sniffed it and for those who train in such it is also an indesputable fact that they tend to be more well rounded, balanced, functioning members of society than those who release they're frustration in a general backhander to the world. again something of a problem in dawlish in my experience. hence why i think a boxing club for young people in dawlish might be a good idea. i'm sure your own eyes can appreciate that.

I couldn't have put it better Lighthouse. Better to improve your social ,mobility in this sport than perhaps in the music world, which many african caribbean youngsters aspire too. With the added dangers of unscrupulous music moguls, who exploit them and do not protec t them from rampant drug abuse and alcohol abuse, and I do know about this. To be a good boxer you need to be healthy clean and sober. I personally do not like watching boxing but then I don't like watching lots of things. I still think it would be a good idea for Dawlish. I do think it's pretty insulting to suggest only ethnic socially deprived youths box. Are there any boxers out there? Give us your comments.

I didnt say that only 'ethnic socially deprived youths' (your words) box @fannyann, i said that, according to the evidence, boxing is most likely to be undertaken by youths from low socioeconomic backgrounds. those from this background are hugely disadvantaged both economically and socially and are thus underpriviledged. i also pointed out a link between boxing and ethnic background. why is this insulting? its all there in a public arena should you wish to look it up.

using the evidence of my own eyes and information from the office of national statistics @lighthouse i dispute your assertion that dawlish is rife with violence and anti social behaviour. i don't doubt that this is what you perceive but your perception is not a truth and is not supported by the evidence. I remain unconvinced that a boxing club would bring any great benefit to Dawlish - although I do agee with you that encouraging fitness and discipline etc is no bad thing. Why does this need to be achieved by encouraging people to beat each other up?

Libby, I grew up in dawlish, no longer live there but my family does, and with my own eyes I have seen a significant increase in anti social behaviour from young people who reside there.

Owing to the generally quite racist (not you!) attitudes of MANY people in Dawlish and devon in general, the issue of ethnic background and boxing isn't relevant to this discussion as sadly there are very few people from any ethnic background other than british living in dawlish. It IS relevant to the discussion however that the process of training in something like boxing or similar would, I believe, achieve good things. You jumped on the concept with the argument around social background which I don’t think is relevant in this case. I don’t personally believe in or support war for eg, but I do appreciate the benefits some young people gain from joining up simply owing to the nature of the training and the environment around it. It’s in that vein that I’m referring to, and stand by it. And in that case, if young people from socially underpriviledged backgrounds in dawlish ARE the ones to take it up, so what? i think that's a good thing and kind of proves the point that they're better off venting their frustrations in a controlled way.

and in that case, if the people

Well said Lighthouse. There are statistics and damned lies. As for no violence or anti social behaviour in Dawlish, you obviously don't live near the Landsdowne pub. On a Friday and Saturday night it's like the wild west out there. Two people glassed in the last 2 weeks, Constant fights and aggressive behaviour. To say nothing of the pile of used syringes we found when clearing our garden. Dawlish has no more or no less than any other town .'There is nothing for young people to do except drink in pubs, another reason for promoting a sport like boxing. There are referees to stop them 'beating each other to death as you claim. Anyway subect closed I've said my piece.

The argument could run and run.

Is there a lot of violent and anti-social behaviour in Dawlish? I don't know; personally I haven't witnessed any - compared to some places in and around major cities, Dawlish is quite a peaceful backwater.

But I do think the point being made is that, if it's there, that behaviour could be channelled into other physical and sporting activities which are non-violent rather than boxing which is intrinsically violent (even though "controlled"). All other sports are competitive and therefore challenge and help to re-direct natural aggression but mostly without the specific dangerous combative nature that is inherent in boxing.

Boxing is probably the only "sport" in which people are killed non-accidentally by other people.

mmmm - not sure i said anything about beating each other to death @fannyann. i said beating each other up which is what happens isnt it?

not sure that i agree with you @neilh about 'natural aggression'. theres nothing 'natural' about aggression - its a learned behaviour.

It would be nice to offer non violent , competetive and challenging activities