General Discussion

PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT

Devon County Council has released the following information about the latest stage of Public Consultation on the Strand

Wednesday 9th November 7pm to 8:30pm

Devon County Council officers will present an introduction to the consultation

There will then be an open consultation event over the next two days

Thursday 10th November - 10am to 8pm

Friday 11th November - 10am to 5pm

All these events will take place at the Strand Centre, United Reform Church.

Is there a clear set of proposals for the Strand or are they just looking for public ideas at this stage?

Seems it's been whittled down to two.

http://www.thisissouthdevon.co.uk/Dawlish-people-Strand/story-13722594-detail/story.html

So we're having a public consultation on two working days! Anyone doing a standard 9-5 working week only has a couple of hours to get there on Thursday evening when they probably have family commitments! Why isn't it also on Saturday and Sunday as well?

For a consultation that is so important to the town, I don't think this is good enough!

Whatever they decide people wont like it ...so they need to do what they plan to do or do nothing! If the meeting was at weekends people would complain about the cost DCC staff.

It says at the bottom of the article

For people that cannot attend the consultation, copies of the drawings along with an opportunity to provide feedback will be left in the local library. In addition, the drawings and information will be available at http://www.devon.gov.uk/dawlishstrand

I can't see anything on the site yet, unless I'm being particularly thick!

Opening hours at the library are -

You're not alone. I couldn't find details on the web-sitr either

This letter is in today's Gazette.

http://www.dawlishnewspapers.co.uk/Letters.cfm?id=41595&headline=We must plan for the future

What a sensible letter that is. Well done...I so agree..good its from a retailer.

dat is a well gud letta dat i aggree wid.

Thats a letter from a gift shop pedestrianisation would do them no harm!!! Ask the shops at the lower end food retailers and see what they say also in and out traffic needs to be routed WHERE, our streets wont cope with it. Visited Topsham the other day not pedestrianised but they cope well ,it was very busy and the shops were delightful, Id forgotten what it was like there, cars go up and down their narrow streets without causing any problems to pedestrians

i heart topsum. its v classy n nt ful o grock shops.

Excellent letter from Peter and Pam Cross, and Ali Aitchison, I totally agree. There is plenty of parking off Strand, we don't need cars blocking it. Dawlish has to move on.

Cars arent parked on the road through Topsham though Brazilnut. They can only park at the top and bottom. Parking on one side of the road would perhaps be a good compromise or pedestrianised between say 11-4, which they do in many towns .

Brazilnut - In Teignmouth both Maunders and Stokes are on a pedestrianised street and they seem to be doing fine. Food shops, just as much as the gift shops, need to have space in front to display their wares and for customers to browse.

when i go to Teignmouth to shop I park behind the small coop,get what I want in Stokes /Maunders pop back thru coop then back into coop to get anything else. Teignmouth is blessed with parking around that area without having to struggle too far. Topsham is the same, there is on street parking there but limited. I could not manage to struggle from coop to the bartons car park it would be easier for me to go sainsburys which is what a lot of people will do if pedestrianised, and then the town will die, but if its just modified a bit will keep us in town to visit the other shops and cafes. Im sorry but pro pedestrianisation will finally kill off the livelihoods of some of the shops, you are entitled to your views as I am. I just hope at the end of the day compromise will prevail

Options now online.

http://www.devon.gov.uk/dawlishstrand

This link is even better - should take you straight to the page giving the options.

http://www.devon.gov.uk/index/environmentplanning/planning-system/urban_design/dawlishstrand.htm

Ive been and had my say,bit disappointed that the parking will be on shop side on option B would have liked for the wall to belowered and parking on that side with a narrow pathway. In my opinion the Lawn is the Jewel in Dawlishs Crown and would like to see the majority of money spent on that with maybe a childrens play park and just the Strand tidied up with new pavors

You can't build anything on the lawn - it's in a flood plain and environment agency won't allow it. One of the ideas mooted was for parking by Ugly Duckling but that won't happen either.

That's what knocked the idea of a new bandstand on the head. If you knock it down you won't get planning permission to replace it - absolutely blinkin' ludicrous.

BTW Scheme A for me - finally might breathe a bit of life back in the town, too much of the 'Oh we moved here because we like it as it is, you can't change it' - everything changes, it has too or it dies.

This flood plain business. Would it stop, for example, a children's playpark being located on the lawn?

I may have missed it, but after looking at the link for pedestrianisation of the Strand, it does not show where the traffic would go, ie. how to get to and from the Bartons car park.

In thru Brunswick out via Queen St / High St or up the Bartons - Oak Hill - John Nash Drive

I wouldnt have thought it would stop a playground similar to teignmouths being built.

Brazil nut, why do you go to teignmouth and then go Maunders and Stokes and then Co-op when we have them all here, near enough next door to each other , with parking at the co-op? Is this because you live in Teignmouth.

No I live in Dawlish and use those shops here 99% of the time, but on rare occasions I go over to Teignmouth, Superdrugs, Home Direct, Peacocks etc and whilst there do it all, I was merely replying to Dawlish Blues comment. I work in the town and want to see those shops survive. I wish we had a Peacocks or similar here it might help but pedestrianisation wont

I wonder where voices for dawlish stand on this, not heard any comments from them

I was in Teignmouth yesterday. Why? Because the facility I needed (building society) is no longer available in Dawlish. So whilst I was there I also did some shopping in the shops that we just don't have in Dawlish - Peacocks, Superdrug, WH Smith and the like. Oh and I noticed that where Woolies used to be that then became a carpet shop (Carperright?) is now to become a M&Co outlet (one of my favourite clothes stores as it happens). Even more reason for me to go over to Teignmouth.

I really don't think Dawlish can compete with T'mouth when it comes to shops. T'mouth shopping area, although far from large, is much bigger than Dawlish. So........I think Dawlish shopping experience has to be different from that found in T'mouth.

I ask myself this. What reason do I have to go into Dawlish town centre? The answer, for me, is the local produce market held once a month (and that said I didn't even make last Friday's market!).

Need things to draw people in to the town, both residents and tourists. But that of course will be different things for different people.

Should we have a consultation on this? (or have we already had one?). Can't remember.

Agree with what you day there Lynne.

If you are retailer wishing to set up in either of the towns ..you go and compare to establish where you are most likely to do well. I know which I would choose!

opshun a 4 me. i likw wot dey ave dun in midle ov exmuth. made it in2 a luvly square wid no cars or trux. like been abrord.

Larger town, different shops in more than one street NO COMPARISON

Rainbow, I agree with you, Exmouth is much better. Option A for me too.

If option B, to have traffic, is chosen, I think a lot of its supporters will get a rude shock when they try to park in front of their favourite shops, as the number of parking spaces will be drastically reduced from what there is now. At busy times the spaces would soon fill up so people will be forced to park elsewhere and walk anyway. Another reason for voting for A - if you're not going to be able to find a parking space you might as well fully pedestrianise it

Then Sainsburys will have won!!!!! Pedestrianise and everybody that uses their cars now to shop in town will simply go there and get everything they want under 1 roof. What will you be left with if bakers stokes butchers etc close a ghost town because there will be nothing left to attract other businesses, no premises are big enough for prestige retailers, cafes close earlier this time of year inclement weather and no visitors. We are a small seasonal town with a railway station to look at not even a seashore unless you get up close, our major assett is the Lawn and Brook thats where the money should go make that more attractive, not much on Brunswick side except Gays, Old Mill Tea Rooms Brunswick Arms that side would be better pedestrianised starting at Gays and ending at Shaftsbury, then you could have your pavement cafes like the Triangle in Teignmouth it would blend into that side of the Brook that Gays already use

Think how many shops we had at the top end of town who have now closed and the reasons given were lack of PARKING, like it or not we have busy lives now trying to juggle everything in and not all have time to stroll cars whether you like it or not are a neccessary evil.

And 1 last thing we will never be Totnes

As far as I've been told most of the lawn area is in the flood plain area and no building allowed (I'm assuming that where the Pavillion was proposed was not covered)

To have a play park on the lawn similar to Teignmouth's would take the entire available space there, simple fact - the area is pretty much the same size. What about a decent one at Sandy Lane and replace the one there that is falling apart and the old building too?

As for pedestrianising Brunswick Place, well I seen some daft stuff written on here and that's got to be in the top 20. Most of that road is residential, there's not enough business premises to make it worthwhile.

Surely the lack of parking was not the only reason shops at the top of town shut, maybe it was lack of available parking - the spaces filled with all day parkers mean the just popping in parkers can't. Once one shop shuts there's less reason for people to visit the area so others lose out.

Lynne's comments re her trip to Teignmouth sums it up, 'Peacocks, Superdrug, WH Smith and the
like'. Now if these and other stores opened in The Strand I could see the point of it being pedestrianised, but there is nothing to attract more than locals grabbing their prescriptions and a quick look in the charity shops, most locals I speak to, elderly and retired mainly, wouldn't park and walk to the Strand. I haven't spoken to a single trader there who wants it to be pedestrianised and they are the people that matter.

Large trucks that drive up Brunswick Place, eg Brewery deliveries could not turn right at the top of Queen Street without major structural work to widen the road, and the constant short term parking on double yellows in Queen street would make it a nightmare for traffic leaving Dawlish. Queen Street can hardly cope as it is.

Have met locals in Sainsburys recently who previously told me they would never shop there, but decided being able to park outside the store and get 99% of what they need in one place is a convenience they can't ignore.

Another comment by Lynne "I ask myself this. What reason do I have to go into Dawlish town centre?"
If you don't want an estate agent or charity shop, why indeed, making it more difficult for motorists to shop there will hasten the demise of The Strand.

Apologies to Lynne for stealing her comments but Dawlish Blue also has a point, if parking is more restricted people will have to park further away and walk anyway!!!! Actually no, they'll just keep driving and go elsewhere. There are three reasons why out of town stores like Sainsburys are so popular and profitable, they are:

1) Parking
2) Parking and:
3) Parking and being FREE also helps.

likePeacocks, Superdrug, WH Smith and the like ', if these and similar stores i'

@Duckileaks

a lot of rubbish is spouted on here and some of it from you, top end of town parkijng is limited to 1 hour, maybe if those shops had survived long enough on street parking meters would have been installed there. What shops are there in the Strand that make it viable for pedestrianisation?

wriggler

You have hit the nail on the head, my sentiments exactly

The reason I mooted the idea of a children's playpark was that it might be one way of getting people into the town - both residents and tourists. Okay, so it might not be feasible but what other ideas are there to get people into the town?

I gather such a playpark is planned for the Warren. Is that right?

I well remember when my daughter was small one of the first things we did when we went on holiday was to find out where the nearest free playpark was! I wonder how many parents staying at the Warren campsites do the same.

A walk along the seawall from the Warren to the town and then what? Mum and Dad could have a sit down and some refreshments and the kids could get rid of their excess energy on the slides and the swings.

Just a thought.

I may not always agree with you Lynne but for once I do

gud idea dat. tinmuffs is gr8 even tho its nt close 2 da shops. who owns da bowlin greeen?

There was a plan for a playpark at Dawlish Warren but haven't heard anything for a while.I have worked at a couple of holiday parks and most of them have facilities for children such as playareas, swimming pools and clubs.

I think we need to scrap the one at Sandy Lane which has two pieces of equipment broken and not in use and build a decent one equivalent to the one in Teignmouth. Sandy Lane is the obvious place to build one.

and that rainbow is what makes Teignmouth different from Dawlish!!!!!

Den and playpark, bowling green, near sea front with a promenade to walk along and look at sea.

Shops are separate from this and where pedestrianised it works as parking is all around shops.

Train Station and railway lines close to town but not right on it, this is why people should not compare Dawlish with Teignmouth, logistically we are totally different and if the town dies Teignmouth will become even more our centre to go after all its only 3miles away.

I want Dawlish to survive but feel strong forces are working against this and can see in the future residential will take over the Strand!!!!

End of the day people over the last recent years have voted with their feet or should I say cars!! and gone out of town. You cant blame Sainsburys for everything!

You may well be right B. the future is residential for the Strand ..

I cant understand if the fair people park on the lower walk way next to the lawn why cars cant? ..then leave the Strand car free.

You know if is possible to go through your life without a car especially when you have no choice! ..you have to just put up with it, no good moaning.. walk to buses and back with your shopping with long arms!!!.

The play area at teignmouth is always very busy, and is a major draw. The same could apply to Dawlish, if it was on the lawn, except we have an advantage. Ours would be near the shops and cafes, so they would gain as well.

Play area is excellent idea, there is nothing in Dawlish to attract families. I spoke to parents earlier this year who told me they always brought their kids to Dawlish from the Warren to play bingo at Harrisons, however, Harrisons don't allow under 18's to play bingo anymore!!!

Might seem a small point but all these small issues add up, lack of parking close to the Seafront, no shops for browsers, Harrisons offering less for kids, with all the expansion of Dawlish Warren why would anyone want to take a trip to Dawlish?.

The Lawn is a VERY under-utilised facility, grass and ducks are not much of an attraction these days.

ducks are ok for sunday dinner.

dallas, there's an idea, breeding pens and a Sunday duck market on the Lawns, maybe seagull and pigeon pies for sale, could be an good income generator.

Mmmmmmmmmmm pigeon pie. LOL.

I like the pedestrianisation plan but I'm anxious about how it will affect the other local roads. There are problems passing oncoming traffic in Queen St. and Park Road now. What will they be like with the pedestrianisan plan? Teignbridge DC don't seem to have done any research/studies into this!? Will Brunswick Place, Barton Terrace and Oak Hill become 'rat runs'? It will also mean a lot more traffic along High Street as not everyone who now uses the Strand is simply looking for a parking spot.

This is the problem with plan A. It will alter the traffic flow all over the town. Traffic returning from Exeter wo'nt want to travel around the bottom of Dawlish -2 pedestrian crossings, 2 sets of traffic lights, traffic backing up from the junction to turn right to join the Teignmouth flow just to get to go up the Brunswick to get to the back of Dawlish. Drivers will cut up Elm Grove road and East Cliff road.

Traffic flow through the bottom of Dawlish is painfully slow out of season; this change will make it worse.

Plan B is the best option. At least then the town centre could keep functioningvand it will look nicer.

Does anyone know when the result will be announced?

no. which is ur prefrance?

WHAT. LOL.

foa cosy. do y like a or b betta?

You have unti 30th November to voice your opinions

Thanks for that Brazilnut. So easy to vote online with Lynne's link - watching and waiting.....

250 peeps turnd up @ da exbition. Hope dey all pickd A. Wots da point o B? its a vote 4 no change innit. a vote 2 hold da lish bak n let otha towns leav us bhind.

Rainbow I voted B for excactly that, to save our town!!!!!! and also the reasons regarding traffic flow we will end up with a nightmare scenario and nobody will want to visit us

Rainbow1 is right. I voted A because I think full pedestrianisation will be good for Dawlish. But anyone voting B so they can park outside their favourite shop will be disappointed, there are so few parking spaces associated with B that there's no point voting for it!

but branut, wots da point in spendin 1.5 mills on no change? move wi da t1mes or get left bhind. praps if shops on da strand lyk da buchers n da veg shop boverd der asses 2 open on sundays, den dey mite do moor biz. or r dey all at church?

I voted for B, otherwise Dawlish will end up with just rented accommodation along the Strand, flats, etc, and No passing trade...... However, I do think neither option is perfect, and that trafficflow will certainly be a problem, but some parking is better than none, and make it free for that first hour and maybe, just maybe our shops will have a chance of surviving. I certainly hope so.

how do you understand what rainbow1 is saying ?

fare enuff cosy. evry1 is entitld 2 a opinon. mine is dat da only plan b dat is gud is da rapper lolz.

WHAT ????????????. love u.....

DawlishBlue has the right idea for dawlish.

Yeah, each to their own, but good to be able to respect others' opinions too. Hope whatever decision is made that Dawlish is able to thrive and begin to rise from the tatters its currently in.......

Hope we can get dawlish back to what it was like. still love it by the seaside.dawlish is a great place to live.

A Further to our conversation last week, I have spoken to a couple of the councillors about the alleged poll you referred to re the proposed Stand enhacements and they are not aware that a formal poll was taken. DCC officers listened to comments of those who attended the consultation events but as far as we are aware, no formal poll was taken.

So why were we asked to vote and put our answer in the ballot box ???

I've asked about this and from what I've been told it seems that all the comments made and preferences expressed via this consultation will be looked at, considered, and discussed by officers at Devon County Council. Then they will give their recommendation(s) to the councillors at Devon County Council who presumably will make a decision to either follow the recommendation(s) - or not.

Don't know if we will have any more say. Suggest people contact Cllr Clatworthy if they want anymore info.