General Discussion
Right then. As I believe we are only a few weeks away from having all revealed by TDC, why don't we all meantime play a little game and see if we can second guess what TDC is going to propose re Dawlish's future.
I'll start off on the subject of housing.
So, anyone any thoughts on:
1. The number of new houses that TDC will suggest needs building.
2. Where these houses will be located?
3. Why we need however many it is that is being proposed?
'Peeps'? Dunno wot that word means. Do you mean people?
Lets take your figures. 750 houses you say. Let's say that they have an average occupancy of 2.5 persons. 750 x 2.5 = 1,875 persons.
Where would all these people come from? Does Dawlish really have that amount of people living in the parish who are in need of housing?
Anyone know?
Putting the locations you mention to oneside J Warrener, I'll take a look at the figures you suggest like I did with those put forward by Rainbow1.
You're suggesting a total of 350 new build dwellings. Average of 2.5. persons per dwelling = 945 persons.
Do we have that number of people in Dawlish in need of housing?
Does anyone know what the actual housing need figures are for persons already living in Dawlish who have an unmet housing need (having to live with parents for example) and/or for those presently living outside the parish but who have strong Dawlish connections and who wish to live here?
Where will all these people work? There aren't many jobs outside care industry and tourism. As I understand it all the schools are full and the doctors' surgery is oversubscribed, as anyone who uses it can testify. Roads are jammed in the centre of town. When we get heavy rain the sewer system can't cope with the number of users at the present, as South West Water recently advised us not to put 'foreign objects' (!) into the system. Has anyone considered these things? No? Thought not.
BBC report 30/08/2011
The housing market will be plunged into "crisis"' without government action to address the "chronic under-supply of homes", a body representing housing associations in England has warned.
The National Housing Federation (NHF) said it risked locking an entire generation out of the housing market.
It predicted further falls in home ownership rates and even higher rents.
The government says it has made more land available for building and is investing £4.5bn in lower-cost homes.
Let's hope Dawlish gets its share of this money and houses.
Wonder where this government land is in Dawlish? Is there any?
Am all for lower cost homes ( though I'd like to know exactly what the government means by 'lower cost') but suspect this money will come with strings attached.
After all, there ain't no such thing as a free lunch, is there?
Still waiting for someone to tell me what the housing need in Dawlish is. Anyone know? Cos if we don't then.........how can any of us say how many new homes Dawlish should have?
Do you see what I'm getting at?
I doubt if anyone knows Lynn. As each set of builders applies to build the council will judge it on merit.
If you look at the number of new builds over the last year erected or about to go up then Dawlish should have already filled its quota. If the government stopped allowing 200,000 immigrants a year in , we wouldnt need to build more house. Yet again a Tory government full of false promises , just like Labour and Liberals.
Housing requirements, easy, ask the council, I know people who have been on the waiting list for over a year and still waiting. About time we stopped talking and got building.
Thanks Brazilnut, exactly my point, we need more housing everywhere in the UK and South Devon is no exception.
The point I am trying to establish is how do we know how many new dwellings are needed in Dawlish (or south Devon for that matter) unless someone, somewhere, has statistics showing that there is a housing need for x number of houses/flats/bungalows or whatever?
And would those figures relate to the housing need of those already living in Dawlish (or South Devon in general) only, or would they include the anticipated housing needs of those moving into the area from other parts of the country, say, over the next 10 years. For example, lots of people who are retired or who are nearing retirement relocate here from other parts of the country, don't they?
And yes, I will ask TDC for this info - but how long I will have to wait for a response and what response I will get is anyone's guess.
And it isn't just a case of building more houses = problem solved . Take a look at Cassandra's posting above.
If the houses are built its doubtful they will go to the homeless. More 2nd/ holiday homes. More homes for landlords to buy and let to foreign workers.
It strikes me that if you are buying a new house you will already be in work so these houses may be sold to families from other areas. My second thought is 750 new families may spend some money in town and a few extra customers can make a difference to a trader on hard times.
There will be problems as already mentioned but a expanding town could be a good thing it may be that improvements will have to be made larger doctors surgery, expanding schools, and road improvements it may benifit us all in the long run
@leatash "750 new families may spend some money in town". true, they might, but I think it much more likely that what money they would spend would be in Sainsbury's. It seems from the front page of this week's Gazette that that is what is happening already so why should these new residents be any different?
@leatash - sorry, should have put this in my posting above but it's only just come into my mind.
I agree that in order to raise a mortgage people need to be in work, and for that work to pay enough so that 1. the mortgage can be raised in the first place and 2. that the work pays enough to cover the monthly repayments plus all other living costs.
So I'm just curious to know what type work you think these people will be doing and where their work places will be located.
They'll be working in London. Holiday home near the sea. Or the landlords will rent it to 6 or 8 foreign workers who will be working locally in cafes , hotels, holiday parks ,factories. happens all over the country.
All they need is a bed for the night , landlord charges £600-£800 a month, worker earns as much as they can over 6 months , then goes back and can then claim all the tax back that they have paid.
The amount of housing that will go to locals will be very small , as was proved with the last build.
Now if we get an increase of holiday homes then this will mean people with money. So Dawlish shops can start to go up market, empty shops can be filled. Restaurants/cafes may even open after 5pm.
But wouldn't an increase in holiday homes only serve to aggrevate the lack of housing available for those who live here all the time?
Second/holiday home ownership in the south west already has already caused a lack of housing availability in places like Appledore, East Portlemouth and in some parts of Cornwall. Locals priced completely out of the market.
In terms of open market housing there is absolutely no control whatsoever, or none that I am aware of, to say who should be able to buy and who should not. Free market, free country and all that.
Bit more control over who ends up being offered accommodation in the affordable rented sector though, say from property owned by Housing Associations, but even then there is no guarantee that any new dwellings will be offered to those in Dawlish needing to be re-housed. - see Devon Home Choice on TDC's website.
Figures to justify more house building, are just pie in the sky.
The road network to get to Dawlish from anywhere is already at a point where congestion on what we have now is just around the corner.
For years local authorities have had the power to take over properties that have been vacant for more than six months - so why don't they?
Hiya Viaduct - long time no hear from you. Where ya bin?
Thanks for raising the issue of empty properties because not only is it a scandal that they exist when we are told that so many in this country need a home of their own (not sure how many empties we have in Dawlish though) but the issue of empty properties is also important for another reason which is.......the New Homes Bonus.
This NHB is a new scheme whereby the government will give local authorities, like TDC, money for every new home that is registered in their district (hence the claim by TDC that many new homes are needed to be built?) However, what is not well known is that the NHB is also payable if empty properties are brought back into use as homes. 'New' homes you see.
So, is TDC pursuing this empty property source of NHB income? .
How many empty properties do we have in Dawlish? And where are they?
Anyone any info?
this link will give you up to date info on TDC's Empty Homes Policy
http://www.teignbridge.gov.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=25830&p=0
Note that TDC defines an empty home as ' a dwelling that has been vacant for more than 6 months'.
If you read through the document that the link above will take you to, you will see how you can tell TDC about any empty properties that you may know about.
So......if you know of an empty home (or offices, or similar) in Dawlish that have been empty for more than 6 months why not let the TDC Empty Homes Officer know. That way s/he will have bang up to date info.
There's an empty home in Weech Road - the Vicarage. Not that anyone could live there in its present condition, but why has it stood empty for so long? About 20 years to my knowledge.
Yes, I had that in mind as well and, like you, have often wondered why it has been empty for so long and allowed to fall into such awful condition.
Will you be bringing it to the attention of TDC's Empty Homes Officer?
(I've somewhere else in mind that the EHO needs to be told about).
I think they are probably aware of that one. I seem to recall it is a Grade II listed building and there has been some dispute over renovating it in the past.
Just found the link I was looking for -
http://www.teignbridge.gov.uk/media/pdf/a/5/EX2005_June_13_Rep_Weech_Road_Dawlish.pdf
Please, please do not misunderstand me on this but.......Grade II listed buildings..............Grrr!!!! sometimes I could scream. That said I would no doubt be one of the first to fight for an historic building to be preserved provided it was in good nick. But when they're not?!
Same problem in Brighton with the West PIer. It's Grade II listed 'n all. Pile of rust. Some few years ago it caught fire (alleged arson but never proven) and became even more of wreck. Couldn't be pulled down though because.....yep, it's Grade II listed. Since that fire several winter storms have taken their toll so it's in even more of a mess but....... it can't be pulled down because.......well, see if you can guess why not.
Abject nonsense.
Thanks for that link re The Vicarage - just been having a read.
Do you know what I think we should do? We should all report it to TDC again - as many of us as possible - just to make the point about empty properties even if they are Grade II listed. (and especially if they are in such awful condition such as The Old Vicarage. Just what is the point of leaving it as it is? Either it should be rebuilt and used for something (community use/homes) or pulled down completely and the land it is sited on used for homes.
On the subject of empty properties - how could we have forgotten the now infamous old Sally Army building at 34 Park Road?!
Doesn't it already have planning permission to be converted into flats?
I've had this response from the Empty Homes Officer at TDC.
Thank you for reporting The Old Vicarge, Weech Road, Dawlish, EX7 9BW and 34 Park Road, Dawlish, EX7 9LH.
The Old Vicarage
This property is well known to us. Unfortunately information regarding this property is not in the public domain at the moment. As such all that we are able to tell you at this stage is that we are actively working with the owner and English Heritage to find a mutually satisfactory outcome.
34 Park Road, Dawlish, 9LH
I was unaware of this property until you reported it, thank you. Having checked our records I can confirm that full planning permission has been granted for the demolition of the existing building and redevelopment of the site to provide 4 x 1 bed and 2 x 2 bedroom flats. I have passed the property details onto our enabling officer so that he can offer his services regarding redevelopment options.
I am sorry that I am unable to provide any further information at this stage, but I do appreciate you taking the time to report these properties.
Thanks for posting that info regarding the Vicarage. The council certainly covers its back with masses of bureaucracy & red tape, doesn't it. Should think the neighbouring residents in Weech Road are not too happy with a festering, rat-infested pile on their doorstep. Isn't it a health hazard? If somebody gets Weils Disease they may be able to sue a) the owner or/and b) the council for letting it get in that condition.
