General Discussion
Remember the public survey done a few months back? (there is a thread on this website about it). Well now there have been some meetings and workshops as well and a Steering Group has been set up to help progress this matter on behalf of us, the citizens of Dawlish.
This matters because it concerns the future of Dawlish.
This link may be of interest - as is the video to be found on it.
Lynne, the link lists the member organisations of the steering group but do you know of any of the names of the representatives of those groups?
What a good question! You could approach the groups directly of course and/or contact Tristan Peat at TDC via: forwardplanning@teignbridge.gov.uk
At the same time perhaps you could ask him
1. what the remit of the Steering Group is?
2.are minutes of the meetings taken?
3. are these minutes available to the public? (this is, after all, a public consultation exercise)
4. are the minutes (if any are taken) brought to following meetings for agreement/amendments?
5. and finally, why it is I can get no info at all (being a mere member of the public) about the Steering Group meeting that was held on 4th August.
!f you get an answer please post it here (but remember he has up to 20 working days to respond.)
Grrr.......
Okay folks, from what I can gather there are notes taken of the meetings which are then circulated at following meetings. Dunno if these notes are available to us (Joe and Josephine public) though.
Oh and this August 4th meeting about which there is one hell of a resounding silence? Shhh!!!!!! tis confidential (well,that's what's being alleged).
And why should we care about this and why am I posting all this? Because this is supposed to be a public consultation exercise about the future of Dawlish.
I understand that the public will next be asked for opinions on the deliberations and conclusions of the Steering Group in September/October.
What I'm going on about at the moment, is that the public seem to have no access to the info being given to the Steering Group by the planners at TDC. Information that will have made the Steering Group make the conclusions/recommendations that the rest of us will have the chance to comment on come the autumn.
In other words, the general public will not have access to all the info. But I can't prove that of course because there is no information coming out to the public from the Steering Group meetings, is there?
I find it incredibly frustrating that small groups of people that supposedly represent us, the residents of Dawlish, are making decisions about the future of our town without full consultation or even fully informing us.
But one of the things that wind me up no end is that repeatedly the same people with their own views are constantly on these 'steering groups', I'm not confident that they actually speak for Joe/Josephine Public (as Lynne so eloquently puts it).
These are people who could be described as typically middle class, well educated, professional jobs, good homes etc. Now, not to offend anyone deliberately, but how large a percentage of Dawlish could label themselves as middle class? Surely the majority here are typically working class - ordinary Joe Bloggs.
Yet again I see that the Lawn Pavillion project is being pushed again. How realistic is this idea? Does Dawlish really see itself as an 'arts and culture' hub? Do the residents of Dawlish really want some hulking, great building on the edge of the lawn? I'd have thought that most people would like to see the lawn as I do - well cared for, free of druggies/drunks, plenty of well-maintained benches, regular free entertainment aimed at families, used for community groups and available for dog walking, playing football with your children, picnicing etc.
Do I want to see a cafe and art gallery blocking my view from The Strand back to the Brunswick and vice versa? No, I don't.
The people pushing these sort of projects (not just that one) seem to be part of every group going. Yes, I know I could get involved - believe me I've tried and failed to be heard, only one voice..
Wouldn't disagree with a lot of what you say Duckileaks. Any thoughts though on how to get those not typically middle-class, well educated, in professional jobs and having good homes etc, involved in things like Steering Groups?
Let's project ourselves into September/October when the results of the Steering Group meetings are put out for public consultation. How do we get those who are not well educated and middle class etc involved in the consultation process?
I don't know Lynne, I consider myself quite ordinary and average. Not university educated, not earning loads of money, just normal. I've tried having a voice and an opinion but I've been the only one sometimes.
Perhaps part of the problem is that those who most need to speak up are to busy getting through the day to day grind of everyday life...
Having given this exclusion/involvement issue some more thought what I think may be two common denominators of those who do get themselves invoved in meetings and things is that they have the time (or they make the time) and they have the inclination to do so. Don't think that people who are active in things are necessarily middle class and university educated etc. though. Different activities can attract people of different backgrounds. What about church societies, the WI, the local councils for example? I don't think I know anyone on the Dawlish Carnival and Dawlish Airshow Committees so I have no idea if they are middle-class and university educated or not. Are they?
I agree that those with child care issues, money worries, housing worries, ill health etc and those with "how am I going to get through to the end of the week?" type of worries probably won't engage, aren't able, to engage with other things. They are probably just too emotionally and physically exhausted with getting on with the day to day grind of everyday life.
But that doesn't mean that we shouldn't try to involve them. It's their town as well. I'm just wondering out loud how that can be done.
I wouldn't say that it's only those with a degree that get involved nor that it is exclusively middle class people. My point and my issue is that the people who get onto these groups, and now town council, are the same old faces with the same agenda/pet projects to push. The lawn pavillion being one example.
These projects will have little or no impact or benefit on the life and livlihoods of the majority of Dawlish residents and some would say a negative impact - e.g. those shops oposite the proposed site.
No all voices in Dawlish are heard.
"Not all voices in Dawlish are heard" yes, I agree, so I ask again - how can that be resolved?
It may be me misunderstanding your stance on this matter but I get the feeling that you see this pavilion on the lawn possibility as a done deal?
I don't.
As I understand it, Cllr Vickery is keen on the idea and presumably there are others who feel the same way. Equally I'll presume that there are others as fervently opposed.
It's an idea at the moment isn't it?
Bottom line, I bet it's public opinion in the town that will decide whether this idea is a goer or not (that and the small matter of the money needed to build it!).
So, to all those who are opposed I say this - make a noise! Put forward your arguments as to why this is not a good idea.
And should this 'pavilion on the lawn' idea be found amongst other suggestions being put forward for the future of the town when the next stage of the public consultation takes place in Sept/Oct, then register your protest then and get others to do the same.
This is an opportunity for many more voices of Dawlish to be heard - and if you and others don't express your opposition then, well..........it will seem there is none. Which isn't the case at all, is it?
Just thought I'd let you know that I've just received an e-mail from the planning department at TDC in response to one I sent them last week. In my e-mail to them I asked them which organisations have reps on the Steering Group and what was all this I was hearing about the 4th August meeting being 'confidential' and no-one seemingly being prepared to talk about it.
The response from TDC planners was to give me a list of the organisations involved, a resume of the consultation process thus far and when the next public consultation will be (in the autumn).
What was noticeable by its absence though was any reference to the August 4th meeting despite my making a direct reference to it and asking them about it.
So, in the absence of them answering my e-mail in full I have just sent them another pointing out that I am still awaiting a response re this Shhh!!!!! August 4th meeting.
I'll keep you posted.
Thank you Lynne for keeping TDC on their toes.
I know the paviliion is not a done deal, in fact it wasn't so long ago that a feasibility study concluded that it wasn't! Why then is Cllr Vickery, now chair of planning, still so keen?
As I've said, same old faces, same old ideas, own agenda etc
I thought vfd were going to change the way things were done, seems to me they are worse than what was there before!!!!!!!1
All the re-generation claptrap is still being sprouted by the old school and their comrades at TDC especially the nick named hag in a hat. All I managed to glean from these meetings etc is that whatever ideas the real people of Dawlish put forward the final decisions will once again be made by outsiders who have party politics in mind, work for TDC and probably shop at Sainsbury's.
At the moment the only funds available to them are the 1.5 million put aside by DCC for work on the Strand, the paltry £200,000 donated by Sainsbury's which I understand still is not in the council bank. The only other money will come from whatever government back hander TDC get for covering Dawlish in affordable housing.
As for VFD absolute amateurs still finding their feet although they have again achieved the majority vote, great turn out at the poll by the way less than 2,000 says it all really. Anyway they have the job for the next 3 1/2 years so no point moaning, just let em get on with it. As said TDC will just over-rule anything they do
.
@Duckileaks; i've no idea why cllr vickery is still so keen. perhaps he still thinks it's a great idea? he may chair the planning committee on dawlish town council but that council is not the one that counts when it comes to making final planning decisions. That function rests with Teignbridge District Council. Dawlish Town Council can only say that it supports or that it opposes a particular planning application.
@MoH; Blimey! Something we agree about (sort of) at long last! I agree totally that ultimately any planning decisions will be made by outsiders - namely those responsible at central government level for wanting a certain number of new houses built (this idea of localism and local people deciding for themselves ain't necessarily what it is cracked up to be you see) and by the planners and politicians at TDC also wanting a certain number of houses built so that TDC can benefit from the CIL (CIL = Community Infrastructure Levy which as far as I am concerned is just a replacement for Section 106 agreements whereby major new builds have to bring with them an amount for spending in the community eg Sainsbury's and their £200,000 to be spent in Dawlish).
So........no new houses in Dawlish = no CIL= no money for spending on projects in the parish of Dawlish.
On the other hand of course, may be it's just me being cynical (but I don't think so somehow as I know someone really quite involved in all this who refers to the whole thing as the Public CONsultation Exercise)
Thanks Lynne, I am aware that DTC are consultees only regarding planning issues. As for why Cllr Vickery is still so keen on that project - perhaps kudos, pet project whatever but I think it's time to move on. Now he and the rest of VFD have taken control of the council they have a brilliant opportunity to really be the voice of Dawlish and act on what they hear.....as long as they listen to Dawlish. My fear is they will still be blinkered by their campaign issues; there is more to Dawlish.
I think these public CONsultations and localism plans may have brought a few at TDC down to earth with a bit of a bang. They have certainly had to go away and re-think the maths, because these are the figures I have found out about. Original TDC estimate 2400 houses with 40% affordable @ £7500 / affordable house CIL payment. Revised after reality check with what local people are prepared to support and what building companies are prepared to provide to 600-800 houses with 15% affordable
Haven't got time to do the maths myself but its pretty obvious that TDC's coffers are'nt going to be overflowing at Dawlish's cost. Even better news is that this will undoubtedly upset Sainsbury's forecasts for footfall and profit, ie no new houses means no new customers, ha ha ha
Cant see much happening with the Strand project either, had a word with someone re costs and turns out 1.7 million wont even cover risk assessments, legals, admin fees etc. Add in labour, materials, back handers, compensation plus utilities and civils and its a non-starter
Realistically a free hand out of paint and brushes would be a good place to start followed by a seagull and junkie cull on the lawn
Cheer up though its nearly Christmas
TDC seeing Dawlish as a CIL cashcow? Whatever next!
This link might be useful http://www.communities.gov.uk/documents/planningandbuilding/pdf/1897278.pdf%20
at sections 13 and 51 there is reference to the CIL and social housing.
@ MoH - I'm a bit confused by what you have written as it seems you are saying that TDC was hoping for a CIL of £7,500 per affordable house built. Is that what you meant to say? Can you clarify please?
I raise this matter as according to the info in the link shown in my posting above, affordable housing is exempt from CIL.
Apparently there is another Steering Group meeting being held this coming Tuesday (23rd) - wonder if that will also be shrouded with an air of confidentiality?
Oh and MoH - this £7,500 CIL payment per new house business that you referred to above (erroneously saying it would be a payment for each affordable house built) - from what I can gather it is a figure that TDC planners are putting forward as the average CIL payment for each market dwelling that gets built.
But don't let's get too excited about all of this seemingly windfall of dosh coming Dawlish's way courtesy of CIL and new build housing. All that glitters is not necessarily gold and not least because although thisCIL/new house build scheme on the surface of it looks like it will bring money that could be spent in Dawlish that won't necessarily be the case.
From what I've read about how the CIL payments will work, it seems that the local authority (in this case TDC) can spend it on whatever it thinks it needs to, wherever in its boundaries it thinks it needs to. Indeed some of the CIL monies raised in Dawlish courtesy of the new build houses (if they get built of course) could find its way into the coiffers of Devon County Council and be spent anywhere in the county.
I envisage TDC planners having lots of questions to answer when this public CONsultation finally goes er........public again next month (or the month after.)
Remember that super hush hush Steering Group meeting held on 4th August? (see postings above).
Well........it seems that it was super hush hush because TDC planners produced a draft neighbouhood plan showing, amongst other things, how many new houses it is being suggested should be built and where.
If you've seen this week's Dawlish Gazette you may have read an article in it entitled "Draft Blueprint For Future Of Town Out Soon" in which it states that "details are being kept under wraps as organisers are keen to keep some of the areas confidential to prevent the risk of pushing land prices up".
Two questions come to mind:
1. If this draft is due to go public in a few weeks time why won't it then push land prices up? After all, if it was likely to do so at the beginning of August why would it not have the same effect some six weeks or so later?
and
2. Do me a favour! Are we all seriously being asked to believe that land around Dawlish (especially that immediately adjacent to the fringe of the urban area) has not already either been bought up by developers or have some kind of option on it to be bought by developers if planning policies turn out to be favourable?
Is it me being stupid or do they think the rest of us are?
Has a date been mentioned for release of the draft? I did overhear mention (in a public place) that a draft was being released on 15 September and that it wasn't going to be very popular with residents. There was some laughter over having to face the public moaning when there was an open day public consultation. I'm assuming this relates to the blueprint and was slightly surprised if that is the case that they were discussing it so loudly.