Dawlish Discussion

Dawlish Town Councillors are in favour of pedestrianising the Strand!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Cllr Rosalind Prowse said her preference was for a total ban on traffic, todays Gazette, Cllr Protheroe pointed out this would cause problems for disabled and visitors!!!!! what about other residents who like to shop in the town and are not as young as they were. They may not be able to struggle to the Barton car park, thats if you can get in there during the summer. Coop Car Park is not ideal due to the stairs. So will this not push people out to the new Sainsburys when it opens or Morrisons. If this is all they can come up with to improve and revitalize the Town (excuse the expression) but God help us, its about time they all went !!!!!!!!

@ PJD wIith all due respect anything that happens to the Strand regarding traffic control has nothing to do with local councilors and their printed voice the Dawlish Gazette they only voice an opinion based on what thay feel will be self bennificial to themselves.

Devon County Council have total control over roads and therefore Mr Clatworthy is the only chap worth listening to

And hes about as much use as *******************

@PJD

********************** works very hard for Dawlish and he really is a useful councillor.

I agree with Vangauard, Clatworthy although a tory does work hard for dawlish unlike Cllr PROUSE who hasnt got a clue about anything, she just bluffs her way in a takes what she wants and dissapears, i cant believe the sour faced hag is still involved with any council let alone ours

Whilst having my own thoughts on our councillors (not all negative by the way) I'll refrain from making any personal comment.

However, and as I have said on other threads recently, we have local elections in May when ALL the Dawlish Town Council seats and ALL 5 Dawlish seats for Teignbridge District Council will be up for grabs.

I will be extremely interested to see the names of those standing as candidates.

I cant believe anyone can call someone 'a hag' what a disgrace but typical of manners now. I believe comments like that are not allowed to be posted about anyone by name Webmaster?.

All these moaning people need to stand for Council and lets see who we get!. Yes Lynne I agree lets see the list...seems they are not exactly falling over themselves!

Wonering

****************************** :::::::******* yourself, is that better

Wondering you are right, personal attacks do not add anything to the discussion. I have had a complaint already so please be careful about the language used when referring to people.

Guess what. Just had my second application to stand for council elections turned down. What a bloody stitch up the existing lot have, they have it sewn up tighter than a ducks bum.

None of the major parties will support any new candidates which pose a threat to the exsisting councilors. So the only way in is to finance your own application ,which will end up getting blocked anyway.

This place is just going down the pan

What do you all think about the proposals for the Strand, this thread has been hijacked !!!!!!!!

Apologies to Smokey for going off the original subject (The Strand) but really would like to know from Fronteraman the reasons for his application being rejected.

Fronteraman - as it seems you are wanting to stand as a candidate for one of the main political parties are you prepared to tell us which one it is that keeps rejecting you?

Why not stand as an Independent candidate? I believe others intend doing so.

@Smokey

The thread hasen't been hijacked the point being made is that it dosen't matter what anybody thinks about the Strand plans. The local in it for themselves councilors will do whatever they vote for and will get Devon County to back their decisions.

If you have alternative views to councilor Prowse's vision then it looks like you will have to vote for the independants in May or the same old will just carry on as before watching each others backs.

We urgently need a new council with new faces

Send your views >

http://www.devon.gov.uk/index/environmentplanning/planning-system/urban_design/dawlishstrand.htm

I smell bullshit. There's nothing to stop anyone without a criminal record and who is a council tax paying resident from standing as a candidate. Come on Fronteraman - put your money where your mouth is! If you're truly independent, then you'll get support from many of us.

Pedestrianising The Strand is a great idea.

Knock down the wall between the strand or at least have more / bigger gaps to allow easier access.

Also cafes could have outside chairs and tables. Just like St Mark's Square, Venice.

How nice that would be in the summer.

Having never been abroad dont know what Venice is like !!!!!!! but this is a little seaside town with a street of shops, the lawn running alongside is ideal for the stroll. Imagine 8am in the morning having breakfast outside a cafe and the delivery lorry pulls up outside of say Boots, what would you say? Logistics of the Strand is no back access for deliveries, so how can you ban traffic? If the wall is removed and a path is contructed say for debating purposes 1metre over the shrub area of the lawn, parking could be on one side of the road leaving the pavement to be widened on the shop side, with deliveries before 10am and after 4pm. If you close the strand imagine all traffic coming in brunswick and leaving via Queen St, /High St Bow windows has an outside seating area already that leaves Taylors and Salamis.I believe Ugly Duckling already uses the concrete area to the side of their premises, our inclement weather would dictate that much of the time outside areas would not be used much. holidaymakers usually use cafes along Piermont Place and in these times of severity how many townspeople can afford to eat out..

To all. please do not put much store by Cllr Clatworthy's interest in Dawlish residents it was he who had winter parking taken away.

Quote from a DCC council meeting. " he is lucky to have a drive infront of his house to park in so it does not effect him.

Can I say, “I fully understand members who haven’t got on-street parking coming here and making representations? I actually come from Dawlish, and we had on-street introduced and extended in my time, and the winter parking areas have been taken away, and two things happened, one is the fact that people will get used to it, and secondly the people who can find, you know can have their winter parking taken away find spaces in the summer, so there are spaces available, they probably have to walk further, but it does work..

ON STREET PAY AND DISPLAY

I'd love to see the Strand fully pedestrianised, with deliveries restricted to certain times of day. It would revitalise the town centre.

I agree with you Dawlishblue, get rid of the cars and boy racers...is ok for traffic to inbound via Brunswick and reverse the High Street outbound as planned. Id vote for that!

It is what Dawlish wants, people do like the town as it is... so try it!

As a newcomer, may I be permitted my opinion and state that I firmly believe that pedestrianisation of the Strand presents far more opportunities than it does problems. Granted that there would be a number of logistical challenges to overcome, but better that issues are considered and worked through, than rejected without consideration.

Pedestrianise the Strand...great idea. Out going traffic to go via a reveresed direction High street......great. As soon as the bin lorries decide to do their usual slowthly trip down the road at 1.00 pm, stopping all the traffic. and creating gridlock.....great!

Simply do away with all parking on the pedestrian side of the strand and widen the pavement to suit. That would be suffice, then police the parking that is available to stop any congestion of traffic...how mant people now just abandon cars where they see fit and block the road?

Having said that, how much money did the council waste when they re-vamped the strand and changed all the parking when they did it last time? did they actualy consult the locals or just envisiage it as a good idea?

Dawlish does not suit a pedestrianised central area, the infrastructure is not like that of Newton or Teignmouth. Stop the throughway traffic and I would reckon on it being the kiss of death to OUR town.

The Strand area is already dying, remove the conveniance of being able to stop near enough outside the shops(s) of your choice and you are just pushing custom to the new conveniance of Sainsburys.......instead of closing the town centre down, there should be more thought into promoting it!

Sainsburys and Tescos dont give a damn for the town or its folk, its all a part of their great battle as to which company can out sell the other.

At last somebody who feels exactly as I do, couldnt have put it better myself

Sainsburys and Tescos dont give a damn for the town or its folk, its all a part of their great battle as to which company can out sell the other.

Agreed.

Trouble is..........a lot of others don't see them that way. They see them as some fantastic panaceas for resolving 1). The cost of shopping and 2). and here's the best joke........as a way of attracting people into Dawlish.

Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha.

They might do 1) but 2)? Don't make me laugh.

Public Relations spin.

Oh, and don't forget that all the money spent in them will be going straight out of the local economy.

People with cars can drive to Sainsbury's for their shopping, so there is no need for cars down the strand.

Pedestrianising The Strand will modernise the town which definitely needs improving.

agree

Pedestrianising The Strand will modernise the town which definitely needs improving.

I dont mind walking anywhere ..and not proud to go by bus!

Let the cars go on their merry way!

The Strand with the Lawn could be a lovely area and attract people not the opposite.

Then you will have a dead town with no shops!!!!!!!!!! Not everybody can walk great distances and some people work and do not have time to leisurely stroll everyday. I want to carryon using the local shops I do not want to be forced to shop at Sainsburys or Tescos but if this plan goes ahead thats what I will have to do, I havent got the time to stroll life too busy with work etc

Noticed one option on the plan which is an absolute reciepe for disaster and in itself is a form of discrimination.

Option 2 whillst banning traffic, makes an exception for and provides restricted parking for DISABLED PERSONS VEHICALS.

Imagine whats going to happen when children playing and assuming no cars are going to come along are met with an elderly driver possibly with less than perfect eyesight and definatley with slow reactions

There's going to be someone killed

regular holiday makers allready avoid the town centre due to the lack of parking and if you dont think thats true then ask them. Locals with work commitments and time restrictions will just go somewhere else Teignmouth is buzzing have you not noticed

had a thought whilst working do you think Sainsburys might have suggested their money could pay for pedestrianising the Strand

Good thought Smokey thats exactly one of the back stabbing tactics these Supermarket Giants play.

I really despair with the local people who think Sainsbury's will be good for our town, their only goal is to get people into their store at any cost.

The local traders like myself have no chance against them and they certainly wont play fair.

They will only release the money promised to the town when they are told what project it is going to be funding therefore if they dont like what they hear then they'll just sit on the money

I just cant believe people think that Sainsburys combined with pedestrianisation will improve the Town, we are not all retired with the highlight of our day strolling down the Strand and stopping for a chat and cup of coffee. Every independant trader must be worried sick with these plans, and as I work local am wondering if in 12mnths I will have a job. Wondering harps on about cars sorry to me a neccessary expense couldnt work without mine and use it to go town as well to shop early pm after working since 5.30 when he / she is most probably in the land of nod dreaming about what is planned for the day. I am not adverse to walking but not loaded with shopping after 7hrs work on my feet.!!!!!!! No way Is the Lawn not a pedestrian area already, lol

@FRONTERAMAN

Just to point out that I know of 3 poss 4 current councillors (Town Council) not standing at the next elections - so at least one of the main parties will be looking for candidates.

I'd like to see more independent candidates providing they are truly independent and just not stating their political affiliation or party membership (as I suspect will happen)

Fronteraman. Why do you think Teignmouth is thriving and what positive action would you take to recreate that here?

See Smokey .. you have no idea what its like not to be able to drive due to health reasons?, so the type of work I do has to fit and you have to live where there is a good bus service. You simply cant say I HAVE to have a car, how would you feel if suddenly you could not drive? Please do not judge people. very unkind...but I expected that response!

Yes Andy Mac I agree, Teignmouth and Newton do not winge. Why are there so many people along by Iceland in Newton where no cars, why so many people in Exeter High Street no cars?

You know what, Sainsburys havent put a birck down and you are saying the town is dieing, you were saying that 10 years ago!!!, you are using Sainsburys as an excuse. As it happens people will come to Dawlish to shop there as here people will still go elsewhere, people alwyas think grass is greener etc. I overheard someone in Newton say I wont shop in Tesco Newton I go to Totnes ..get it?. Mind if Dawlish didnt have the sea and holiday trade then you do need to worry! Moose has closed the only Dawlish shop with clothes ..Sainsburys will not sell clothes!

Actually Sainsbury's do have a clothing range, which will be very welcome if stocked. It's a disgrace that a town the size of Dawlish with 13,000+ inhabitants has nowhere that sells childrens' or womens' clothes. Doesn't have to be high fashion; just basic everyday items of clothing would be very acceptable.

At the exhibition at the Manor they said they would only sell food.

Well wondering I would find it very hard to do what I do using a bus, and where can I get a bus at 5.30am

Anyway disregarding me, there is no comparison with Exeter or Newton people do not food shop in High St and up the road from Iceland in Newton is Asda, get real and stop comparing our 1 street shopping centre with these places

Well Smokey it is very simple you would HAVE to find different work! ..sometimes decisions are made for you. You are right you cant compare The Strand with any other town.

@wondering

With all due respect you really dont seem to have a clue how ruthless major retailers like Sainsbury's really are in relation to competition in the market place.

They without doubt pose a threat to every retail business, not only in Dawlish but everywhere they choose to raise their ugly heads. It dosen't end with just the retailers either, you need to be aware of how they treat their suppliers as well in order to get a clear picture of how they operate.

Here are some examples of how they effect other businesses.

As in my case they put doubt in the minds of bank managers who then remove all funding, overdrafts etc from small businesses. This then puts doubts in the minds of suppliers who then withdraw credit terms and in turn increase prices. They have huge influence over small district councils like Teignbridge so if you are a tennant in a council owned property again your in trouble. Yes they will fund projects like banning cars from the Strand, because they know what effect that will have on their competition. They will even provide people like yourself with a free bus to their store all so they can bleed every last pound out of you.

Sit back and think closely about how they make such huge profits year after year.

They blackmail suppliers on price They import rather than pay British prices They pay their staff and their contractors a pittance and eventually they will become the biggest land owners in Britain.

As for what you read about them only selling food, God only knows where you got that from. Their building a petrol station with car washes, they do the lottery and news agency, cheap booze, pharmacy etc etc etc

As for your comment to Smokey about getting another job where he/she dosen't have to use a car, well that just takes the biscuit, have you tried getting a job locally recently.

You are obviously a self centred individual wallowing in self pity with no real concerns other than how subsidised public transport is helping you to get around, well here's the real world the subsidies are ending and you will be lucky to see a bus in the future. Do you remember Dawlish Coaches and the shopper service they provided.

Get real my friend and look around or you are going to be a very sad person

Hi Fronteraman. You appear to have overlooked my earlier question to you. Whilst I look forward to being able to combine shopping at Sainsbury with shopping in our town centre, I truly think that this is an opportunity for the people of Dawlish to put forward constructive ideas to improve our town. You know, so that it is held in the same regard as e.g. Teignmouth. What so you?

Andy .. Fronteraman said in a post he enjoys 'winding people up' and is unemployed so you can make of that as you will. I am not going to stoop to his level,

Best let them leave Dawlish EXACTLY as it is now...they will all be happy then. Not bothering to look anymore on this subject.

Sainsburys has had wonderful publicity!

@Andy Mac

Simple lets all arrange to meet at the manor house one evening which we as electors have a right to do, stop hiding behind this faceless forum and get these ideas down on paper.

Lynne has opened a thread for this on here but I don't think anything constructive has been posted.

It really is going to be a difficult job as the town Centre structure is so fragmented with major influences like Network Rail, The Lawn and Brook, Transport, Roads and parking, Listed buildings etc.

If we had strung out Sainsbury's for a few million instead of the promised miserly 200,00 then at least we would have had something to work with. I suppose the two main trains of thought must be conservation and re-construction. Unfortunately I'm no expert in either field, but I suspect there are people at Exeter Uni who are, and we would need to involve them at any such meeting.

Your repeated interest in my political views and my standing for council have me wondering about the kind of support I would be likely to get. My manifest on the other hand is easier than the first question.

I don't have one

Without money there can be no real changes made to the town, and so I stand for Listening to what the people want, and explaining openly and honestly how much this is likely to cost and how much is currently available to achieve the goal

We have to be realistic about everything we choose to discuss or we will all be just wasting time

I'm not faceless. I use my name on here. Would be happy to meet as a group but don't see why it should be at the Manor as their are plenty other more suitable venues. Any prospective candidate will only get support if they explain what they intend to DO. You miss the point completely - it's not about your political views!!

You want to improve the Strand, its simple, as Ive previously said, widen the pavement, reduce parking to the Lawn side only, as then you wont get half wits parking in the middle of the road blocking traffic. Its an easy compromise, a wider pedestrian area and you still get parking/throughfare traffic.

Face it, being able to drive AND park near enough right outside the shops is a flaming good way of attracting trade. People are lazy/disabled/have kids need to park close for conveniance.

Rid the Strand of traffic and it WILL die, as the town does not have a sufficient infrastructure to support the area being rid of traffic. Teignmouth/Newton Abbot, they are different individual cases.

Instead of Devon county wasting millions to kill the town with its hair brained scheme, why not spend a few hundered thousand to remove half the car parking and then INVEST the rest in updating the town...now theres a thought!

Again DG you and Fronteraman think like me, before they messed the Strand up we could only park on one side of the road. They could knock the wall down and make a path as on Brunswick side so you can park tight to the kerb. Also why not make Brunswick partial pedestrianisation outside Gays and up to Shaftsbury so as not to interfere with Funeral Directors or sorting office after all that is where most people like to go in the better weather to look at the waterfowl enclosure and to partake of the goodies from Gays and hostelry of the Brunswick, they could put table and chairs out much better I think. Both establishments could have early morning deliveries as they do now. Also why not invest some of the money into a play area for the children behind the bandstand, and Carnival week Marquee could go on the market concrete area.

Trade in Dawlish is already difficult with the traffic.

The ability to park in the Strand creates a multiple of frustrating variables and distractions for drivers and all pedestrians including able, disable, young, middleaged and senior, local and tourist..

Business rates, rules and regulations, online shopping and cheaper alternatives at out of town multi million pound national stores (NA TQY) have also taken their toll. Charity shops have sprung to the rescue to give the artificial impression that the town is alive and well. There also remains the legacy of the estate agents to beautify our town centre. You know the ones, they don't like dogs, smokers, children or people in hock to the DHSS.

Nearly forgot the bookies that provide a wonderfull social service not only for Dawlish but the entire nation. Yep and peppered between them are the government approved purveyors of our favourite of drug. I meant the pubs not the retail outlet for the drug trade giants where I get my spot cream from.

Thank goodness there are some genuine dyehards, indeeed flowers amongst the weeds. They have done a magnificent job in maintaining a real local presence in Dawlish. And their reward... an economic sunami.

With the extra business tax due from the big boys I am sure there would be enough pennies left over to provide a free hire service of mobility vehicles. Acually when I think of generated revenue and profit that will change hands as a result of the development an entire fleet of Audi taxis could be purchased to ferry people from their doorstep to the remaining local shop of their choice.

Why not turn the entire green into more roads and carparks in such a way we could have the first drive by shopping toiwn in the South West.

If you come back to the thread itself, just remember that the present traffic circualtion brings traffic into the back of town via High Street (exeter direction) and Brunswick Place (Teignmouth dirn) and the only way out is via The Strand. If you look at traffic making its way down the Strand quite 90% of it is just passing through. That is what is killing the appeal of Dawlish as a shopping destination.

For those who did not visit the DCC exhibit in United Reformed Church early in December and study the options, there is another chance coming soon (I don't have a date but will post it if I do hear) for a final study of the preferred public option - drawn from from the previous and current consultation. It won't suit everyone but if there's a decent majority that think it's worth doing it will be our last chance to get DCC funding on any appreciable scale.

Sun was shining yesterday and the Strand was buzzing, not a space to be had there at 11.30, so what were all those occupants of their cars doing? let me think no they couldnt have been , could they. SHOPPING

Probably driving up Brunswick and down the Strand looking for somewhere to park before naffing off to Teignmouth. Or maybe they where videoing the drive around Town in case they need to show someone what fun it used to be before the looneys banned cars. Ha Ha Ha. I'm off to WILLOS to hide in their tent and have a brew, maybe ill borrow someone's blue badge and park my lorry outside Baily's thatll stop them coach loads of crinkerleys from taking over the toilets for an hour. He He He

Let's be honest Dawlish has a shopping area that in reality consists of one street - The Strand.

Teignmouth's shopping area is larger and has more shops.

So.....of the two, where are people (both residents and tourists) likely to go if they want to have a mooch about/have a greater possibility of finding whatever it is they want to buy?

(And come the advent of at least one out of town supermarket in the very near future even fewer shoppers will be going into Dawlish).

Remember the wood huts down the warren and the number of people who used them, nows there's the real answer to shopping in a holiday town enviroment. You could get virtually anything there and the atmospehre was second to none. (a certain Conservative councilor who shall remain nameless sailed his fellow traders down the swanny on that one) replacing several small so called eyesores with the three giant ones that we have there now.

Page 8 todays Herald Express

People will not shop in town centres if they cant park- its that simple

Some shops in the Strand have well cared for shop fronts, but they are let down by the ones that do not. All those businesses with peeling paint work, tatty and grubby window displays, weeds in the forecourt, etc need to brighten themselves up. Put flowers out in summer (there are many spaces where small flower tubs would go). Get rid of the cars, and make it an attractive area to stroll in, then you'll encourage visitors.

I agree with the image of the shops, but you still dont get it do you, never mind attracting visitors what about the locals who still want to shop in the strand,!!!!!!! ban the cars and the town will die even the local shopkeepers think this. They reckon they can still compete with Sainsburys as long as pedestrianisation is not applied, if you only had parking on the lawn side it could still be made attractive on the shop side. The regeneration money should be spent on the whole town centre including the lawn and brook

Also visitors are not here all year round, we locals support these shops 365days a year

Smokey. How about this for an idea. Forget the town and move all the worthwhile shops out to the old shutterton industrial estate, Face lift the entire site with free parking hassle free shopping without falling over the bloody holiday makers all the time and somewhere to sit in your van / lorry to eat a sarnie and drink a coffee. Make it worker and local friendly

That would be fine if it wasnt for Sainsburys or Tescos. I went to Cornwall the other day drove thru several towns and villages with not a hint of pedestrianisation!!!!!!!!! If you are on facebook go on Eyes of Dawlish

Smokey, I do get it! I'm local, live in the town centre and I do ALL my weekly shopping in Dawlish. I don't use out of town supermarkets, and I manage it very well without parking on the Strand. I either park in the Co-op car park on my way home from work through the week or WALK at weekends.

If the Strand was pedestrianised and brightened up it would attract more LOCALs as well as visitors. There must be many people living in Dawlish who drive out of town to shop and never bother visiting the Strand because it doesn' t have any appeal for them. Change the way the Strand looks and you'll encourage them back into the town and increase trade.

What about those who do not live in the town centre?

I live outside of town and shop in town Mondays Thursday and Friday to save fuel i do my shoping on the way to pick up the kids from school. I park in the Strand pay my 40p to park go to stokes for veg and fruit and then to the Coop for the rest. So what if i cant park in the strand i will i presume park in the Barton car park and pay car parking to cover the walk to and back from the Strand carry shopping all the way back to the car. I dont think so it will be easy to pop into Sainsburys park for free and then get the Kids from School i wonder how many parents will do the same ???

When you are in stokes tomorrow sign the petition if you havent already done so

Many thanks Smokey for reminding me we have to stop this mad plan that will destroy the town centre. How about a coach trying to negotiate Queen Street and then turning right into the High Street its just not practical. Large vehicles cause problems already without making it worse who ever thought this out didnt consider the problems it will cause. Traffic congestion drives people away from town centres and into the laps of the Supermarket chains but maybe thats what Sainsburys want

As I said before Sainsburys most probably suggested it !!!!!!! We must as a whole do everything possible to stop it before our town is destroyed, people power stopped the sale of the manor

'Wondering' and 'Smokey' might walk into town, but there is a constant stream of cars coming into Dawlish and passing down the Strand. There are 50 odd spaces in constant rotation - at least 2 cars per hour for ,say, 6 hours. So maybe 600 visits per day? Are you saying ALL of these people EVERY time they come to town will pay at the Barton carpark, and walk all the way up and down the Strand. Of coarse not. Once trade has dropped off many traders will close or go bust. The loss of parking is the criticle issue. Why not make the Strand wider, double or treble the pavement width on the shop side, and have parking angled on t'other side. Every one happy - compromise. If you don't have to spend 1/2 the money on altering all the roads for a one way system, you COULD afford this scheme.

You got me wrong Basil, I drive in to town and want to carryon doing so agree 100% with your comments

I might as well stir the pot, as if Cllr Prowse has her way it will be pedestrianis ed, it will kill the town and I for one will take my weekly shop elsewhere. Why not widen the Stand and have diagonal parking for cars.

As For Clatworthy he should be proud of taking away winter parking when it was not necessary, it was just a revenue raising project, he was also one of the instigaters of Pay & Display, but he is ok as he can park in his driveway and good luck to him. I voted for him at the last election, that will not happen again

Further to parking in The Barton Car Park when we can no longer park and shop in the Strand I tried it out today cost me £1-00 to park walked to Stokes and then the Coop with two bags i set of back to the car park. When i arrived back at my car I checked the time it had taken me 63 minutes and as i had only paid for 60mins i was glad that our dear friend the enforcement officer hadnt been and left a fixed penalty. I wonder how many people will actually support the shops in the Strand when it dawns on them the inconvenience of parking so far away i certainly will not, my gut feeling Cllr Prowse needs a reality check

user4549, i know diagonal parking is a good way of getting more vehicles in but the road has to be wide like the den in T'mouth, if you look at the parking on Marine Parade Dawlish you will see that it doesnt work as the road in too narrow, near fatal accidents happen on a regular basis, i know because i live there and it only takes one inconsiderate long weel based vehicle driver to park and you have a problem, the said Clatworthy proposed this parking against all the pressure of the residents who told him it would not work but him and the rest ignored our pleas, like you i voted him in last time and for the LAST time