General Discussion

Does anyone know if it is legal to park in Richmond place outside stewarts. people have parked there for years, but I dont know if its ok to do that. Are the lines illegal or something. everytime I drive past there are always cars parked there and just recently builders vans are everywhere, double parked sometimes. can anyone clarify the position please.

Apparently the traffic wardens can't enforce anything there, as the lines are illegal. Why, I don't know. However, this is just a rumour so I wouldn't trust my car there. Especially as the taxi rank is opposite and we all know how good Dawlish Taxis are at driving! ;-)

From June 2008 all the parking bays in the Strand were illegal and people should not have put money in the Meters, in Novermber they painted out the offending lines (which proves they were illegal) check each end of the parking bar area and see for yourself the painted out white line. Every bay in the Brunswick does not conform to legislation, I have informed DCC TCC of this and we wait and see what they do

I wish the Strand was car free .. like walking through Exeter and Newton Abbot is far nicer.

Not sure I quite followed that - so we don't have to pay now to park in the Strand? Similarly Brunswick?

Put this link into your browser and it will give you legal signage. Then check every bay in the Brunswick they are marked into Bays and Bays MUST be marked with double white lines at each end, in the Strand they had double white lines at each end but they were one long bay and should have been marked with a single white line at either end, I informed them in June 08, in November they painted out the offending line at the end of each parking area, check it yourself. They should have suspended the collection of monies in the meters and also refrained from issueing Parking Penalty Notices, if you got one then appeal and get your money back.
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2002/023113bm.gif

Legislation states 'Councils cannot illegaly enrich themselves'

I just tried that link in google and it did not find it, but in my aol browser it does.

Bardwell, to answer your question, because they have now painted out the offending lines in the Strand they are now questionably legal, but the Brunswick is definitely not legal I dont pay and wont until they legalise them, if I get a ticket I will appeal it. But it has to be up to the idividuals choice.

Sorry to be so long winded but here is more;

What the government says about defective signing:
“The use on Public highways of non-prescribed signs
which have not been authorised by, or on behalf of, the
Secretary of State, is illegal. Authorities who so use
unauthorised signs act beyond their powers”.

Not longwinded; very interesting! I've seen a few tickets issued this year for being on yellow lines, but haven't seen anyone checking tickets on main streets. Perhaps the Council took your advice to heart!

Thanks for all the comments. I had a friend who got a ticket in Richmond place back in July. they appealed and 4 MONTHS later they got a letter saying the appeal had no grounds as parking there was illegal. My friend had contacted Devon County Council and had conversations with the police who both said he could park there as the lines were not enforcable prior to getting a ticket. However having contacted the parking dept at Teignbridge my friend was told that due to a recent ruling where a man had parked on double yellows that were not legal,the judge upheld the fine as he stated that whether the lines were legal or not the lines were obviously there and the person shouldnt have parked on them. he was also told that the person who makes the decisions at Teignbridge council was independent of the council. He found this a little strange as she was employed by, and paid by Teignbridge council! My friend wants to know if he should persue the appeal or just roll over and pay the fine. Any advice???????????

The Judge was acting outside the law, as the saying goes 'Be thou ever so high the law is above you'
The the folliwng:

Para 8.35 of the “Operational Guidance to Local Authorities: Parking Policy and Enforcement”, March 2008 states
“Authorities should not issue PCNs when traffic signs or road markings are incorrect, missing or not in accordance with the TRO. These circumstances may make the Order unenforceable. If a representation against a PCN shows that a traffic sign or road marking was defective, the authority should accept the representation because the adjudicator is likely to uphold any appeal. An enforcement authority may be acting unlawfully and may damage its reputation if it continues to issue PCNs that it knows to be unenforceable”.

I subscribe to ParkingAppeals.com you get really good information on it and only £9.99 a year.
Just got the following from it;

Any lines that are not complete i.e. faded, broken, no "T" bar at both ends etc, are not legally enforcible.tsrgd 2002
HOpe that helps

Verbatim,
When parking enforcement was decriminalised a Judge should not have been involved, I believe they told your friend that to frighten him off.

The new arrangements commenced on Friday 1st October 2004. From this date the
Police ceased to have any powers to enforce yellow lines and other parking
restrictions. All enforcement is carried out by and on behalf of the Council.

Thanks for that information. The council are adament that the penalty stands. They even asked for the names of the the police officer and devon county official who told my friend it was ok to park there. He had a note in his window saying where he was and a phone number to contact him if there was a problem with his car parking there, the council said in a phone conversation that if he thought it was ok to park there why leave a note, they said it proves he knew he was wrong and was trying to cover himself. The saga continues! Any more advice or information greatly appreciated as I feel that the heavy handed approach taken by the council is out of order and my friend is feeling pressured to pay this fine.

Verbatim,

Was it for parking on double yellow lines, if it was they have to be EXACTLY like it is in the TSRGD they cannot be defective in any way.

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2002/023113ba.gif

that may not work in google try another browser.
If they are defective in any way they cannot be enforced, take a photo and send it to Sue Edwards; sedwards@teignbridge.gov.uk
she is in charge of the CEO's
The following is a report I got hold of, by Alan Connett, note the last para;

TEIGNBRIDGE DISTRICT COUNCIL
EXECUTIVE
LEADER: Cllr Alan Connett PORTFOLIO HOLDER: Cllr Alan Connett
DATE:
1 October 2007
REPORT OF:
Ben Hosford – Environment and Safety Service Lead
Sue Edwards- Environment Standards Manager
SUBJECT:
Civilianised Parking Enforcement (CPE)
A Partnership Approach

5. TIME-SCALE
TEIGNBRIDGE DISTRICT COUNCIL
The County Council is keen to meet the schedule for a November 2007
application to Department for Transport. A late application will increase the
length of time with no on street enforcement


The evidence to support the district council partnership’s formal agreement to
sign up to the CPE service is needed by October for the application to the
Department for Transport.

Evidence must be available for the County Council’s resolution to apply for the
powers to go to Devon County Council’s Executive on 16th October 2007.

Evidence must be available to show that all parking restriction Traffic
Regulation Orders have been consolidated and have correct signs and lines to
enforce, 6 weeks prior to go live date.

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Anybody who received a Penalty Notice for parking in the The Strand or Brunswick Place should challenge the penalty they paid and ask to be reimbursed.
Every bay in Brunswick Pace is non prescribed.

Thank you for your request for information under the FOI legislation

I can advise you that the following numbers of Penalty Charge Notices have been issued since July 2008 to November 2008 in;

The Strand, Dawlish 34 Brunswick Place, Dawlish 72

Regards
Sue Edwards