General Discussion

A wealthy 60 year old has free bus travel a youngster on minimum wage has to pay a fortune if they have to travel by bus, is this fair.
I had to pay £6.50 return to Exeter the bus was mainly being used by the older generation, where does the money come from to pay for this, should this and other 'perks' be means tested.

Historically, the British have a suspicion of means-tested benefits resulting (I believe) from inequities in the early years of the welfare state.

More recently, means-tested benefits add considerable complexity (and therefore cost) to the administration of the benefits system, in particular to the IT systems.

My personal opinion is that, ideally, people of pensionable age should have free passes to travel off-peak on qhat were the public transport systems - buses and trains.

qhat = what

(chewing too many leaves, Don)

The free bus passes are for over 60's the retirement age for men is 65.
Trains offer a 30% discount for the disabled and pensioners also students, frequent users.
Surely this would be a better system.
Commuters are dealt an raw deal when it comes to public transport hence too many cars on the road.

Blimy you don't 'envy' the disabled really do you?
By train with a 'Devon Card' that any age can have to Exeter is £2 return, £1.65 to Newton, I challenge anyone to do that journey cheaper by car.. it's still cheaper by public transport than buying and running a car, is a 'status' thing I do realise that.
If you are unable to drive for whatever reason you have to go 'when' and 'where' your taken. Who has the raw deal then?

No I do not begrudge the disabled having a discount.
Maybe the solution is to have cheaper public trasport like it is in the rest of Europe, then commuters, families on a day out shoppers etc., would find public transport attractive.
It would cost my son and his family over £17 return from Starcross to Exeter by bus.
Those who have to use the bus for work are in fact paying for free bus passes, many of them on minimum wage, is this fair.

No Ann! it isn't fair.
But you have to accept that we live in a capitalist country, whatever colour rossette they choose to wear. Money is the name of the game.
I never believed that our utilities should have been privatised, but they were and look at the way they extract the very last penny out of you for the sake of their shareholders? And who are the shareholders?

Agree with you.

Also with Ann that it must be very difficult for people on low wages to pay the local bus fares.

Adult Megarider Gold £3.15 a day.. Is a 7 day ticket unlimited travel anywhere in Devon.
£22 buy it on the bus.
Hope that helps.

link below >
http://www.stagecoachbus.com/devon/index_5153.html
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Hear what you say Viaduct, 1970s Nationalised National Bus Company was awful.. the timetables and routes were not designed for maximum passengers but more for the drivers!

British Railways: The rail lines would never have closed had people realised why the passengers figures were low, Branch lines missed main line connecting services by say 10 minutes, you had to wait 50 minutes for the next train, no wonder few used the train and the case was made to close lines and no questions asked. It was a deliberate plan to kill the lines off and it worked too.

Wondering,
Also true, in my view.
The nationalised services had massive problems, largely because of their monopoly and a casual attitude that engendered. However, alongside that, there was also a concept of providing necessary services, e.g commercially unviable rural bus and train services. Since privatisation many such routes have been cut.

In any event, we are now where we are now.

Don

If the Government can bail Northern Rock out what is to stop them becoming the majority share holder in our transport systems at least then they would have the major say in running them.
On second thoughts all they seem to be any good at is getting things wrong.

Many years ago I remember there was Exeter City Transport, who controlled and operated all the bus routes within the city boundary. Any other bus company wishing to enter the city, could only do so, if they first dropped their passengers off at any of the city limits, who would then have to catch the Exeter City bus (and pay again) to go where ever they wished to travel in the city. There was an exception, if those that came in on what was called at the time a country bus, wished to catch another country bus, (for which they would have already paid) could stay on the bus until it reached the bus station and then get on the other country bus to continue to their destination.
One of the country buses was the Devon General, a privately owned company, with owners such as Alderman Greenslade, (Greenslade tours)and others who where councilors on Exeter city Council.
After many years of complaining about different things, it was decided to amalgamate Exeter City Transport and Devon General, for, as was said at the time, to benefit the passengers. It enormously benefitted the owners of Devon General. This is how it worked.
Bus routes on the Exeter Transport were shared with bus routes of the Devon General, it was based on mileage covered by each journey and by each operator shared. If the mileage imbalanced, then it would be adjusted the following year to try and even things out.
Here comes the rub. Takings on all city buses far outstripped the takings of the country bus. Example: country bus was taking 2d (old money) per mile, City bus was taking 6d (old money) per mile. Obvious when you think about it, there were more people in those days using town buses than those that used country buses as there was not that many cars then.
Not only was the mileage shared, so were the takings. Another example: Suppose the takings on the City routes returned 10 million per year and the country bus takings returned for the same mileage 4 million. Add the two together, divide by two = 7 million each for the same mileage. Devon General gained 3 million and the city lost 3 million. Not a bad deal for the owners of Devon General for doing exactly the same mileage as they did in the past. Poor rate-payers of Exeter!
The same sort of thing is happening with Stagecoach and the local authorities. Stagecoach have gained, (to the benefit of their shareholders) and poor old Tax-payer is footing the bill.
Whilst on the face of it passengers got some benefit, if only they had the ability to work it out at the time, they would have realized they were paying for this new scheme, big time.
I could explain the rub with the present set up, but that would take another essay.

Devon General was Government owned in the 1970s NBC 'The National Bus Company' until de- regulation in 1984. The Government sold it all to Harry Blundred for a song, he got the mini buses into Exeter and worked well, he sold it to Stagecoach early 1990s. Rememeber Stagecoach started just a man as a bus conductor, he bought one bus in Scotland early 1980s. Offered free rides, people took that idea up. Now how many has he nationwide.. but people hate success. He could have lived off your taxes and been on the dole for the last 25 years lol.

Devon General was government owned in the 1970's.
News to me! no matter, I am talking about what went on before that date.


Devon General had been providing a longer distance, county wide service since 1919. In 1947 Exeter Corporation agreed with Devon General to jointly operate some routes within a ten mile radius of the city to prevent unnecessary duplication. (that was when the amalgamation started along with all the excuses that it would benefit the passenger), well it did, but that was not the sole reason. In the same year 17 Leyland PD2/1 double deckers were delivered, and for the first time, adverts were carried on the side of the vehicles. Exeter Corporation lettering was removed from the bodywork and replaced with City of Exeter.

In 1954, an attempt to sell the service to Devon General fell through, and the following year, with a new Transport Manager in place, 10 Guy Arab vehicles were ordered for delivery in 1957. In 1963, the old bus station at Paul Street was closed and the large, open station off Paris Street opened. Times changed, and with increasing car ownership, the first high-capacity single deckers were delivered in 1966, with a view to changing to one man operation. I was one of the first drivers to be trained on those buses, I took those buses where others said it was not possible. They were semi-automatic and very fast. There was a little problem with them, "Brake fade", that occured when you did a trip like Exeter to Dunchideock, all down hill. And because you had to use your brakes more than a conventional bus with a normal crash or synchromesh gear box, your brakes would get very hot. Coming down Dunsford Hill, Exeter, with a full load was no joke, (sometimes).
I hope I have enlightened you a little bit more?