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BNP targeting Devon in Euro seat bid

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20
Dullish
Dullish
27 Aug 2008 16:28

Serious debate with not a hint of candyfloss fluff PR in sight.

06:49 - 26-August-2008 (Express and Echo)


The British National Party has announced it will be "targeting Devon" in the run-up to next year's European elections.

The party's deputy leader, Simon Darby, said he hoped the party would win a seat in the South West.

It comes after the Echo revealed a secret BNP rally was held in Broadclyst, near Exeter, attended by around 100 members as well as party leader Nick Griffin.

The story sparked a huge public debate and the Echo was inundated with calls and messages from people on the subject.


Well Mike Parsons, other than your childish " burning babies at the stake" comment how are the BNP stories "scaremongering"? Have you read their constitution? I doubt it because until very recently it was secret even from members! They clearly state that the BNP will repatriate non "English" people living in Britain and will bring Ireland back into Great Britain. Not scaremongering. Policy. The only scaremongering that goes on is that expounded by the BNP about immigrants!
John, Heavitree
commented on 27-Aug-2008 13:54
*
And here we have it, more publicity than the BNP could ever have hoped for. There are always more replies to any BNP letter or feature and they get more publicity than other legitimate parties could ever dream of. Instead of believing scaremongering stories about the BNP and how they will forcibly reclaim southern Ireland and how all non-white babies will be burned at the stake etc., try looking on their website and find out exactly why so many people are turning to the BNP, Britain's fastest growing political party.
Mike Parsons, Exeter
commented on 27-Aug-2008 12:10
*
I would be glad to see the BNP target this area and hopefully even gain a seat.

So many people moaning about this and that - whatever happened to free speech?

At the end of the day if the government had any sense we wouldn't be in this position.
Steve, Heavitree
commented on 27-Aug-2008 12:08
*
Interesting that the first thing Sarah links immigrants with is claiming benefits. Perhaps she could furnish us all with the evidence that every single immigrant is receiving state benefits and not working? No, I didn't think so...
K Searle, Exeter
commented on 27-Aug-2008 10:16
*
Mark (of Wathamstow) comments on the English betrays a woeful level of ignorance. Certainly the Romans employed people of many nationalities in their legions - including men from the country we today know as Spain - which was populated in Roman times by a Celtic people, cousins to the Gauls of France and the Celts of England. In addition they stationed troops from what are today the "Low Countries" and Germany here - all of whom bore some kin to the native celts.However there was no mass migration of Romans from anywhere to England. As for our other invaders, the Jutes, Frisiens, Saxons, Vikings and Norse - who did come in great numbers as colonisers - these were cousins to the British celts - sharing linguistic and cultural attributes. Even the Normans (i.e. the descendents of the Vikings who settled in France) and their Frankish & Flemish allies were linguistically and culturally related to the British Celts/English. To infer, therefore, that colonising immigrants from Africa and Asian are a mere continuation of a bastardisation process is both wrong and dishonest.
I welcome the BNP in Devon - if for no other reason than it exposes the ignorance of people who clearly have no knowlege of, or pride in, their own roots.
Bill Essex, Exmouth
commented on 26-Aug-2008 23:31
*
What is Englishness?

Sadly, to be the one nation on earth that feels the need to apologise for its existence.

Worse, that some people are so ashamed of being English that all other cultures are considered superior to us.

As an Englishman born and bred over many generations from a small area of England, I know very well what I mean by Englishness.

What is not English is having French-speaking areas in many cities or having women in full burkas walking around.

I amproud of English culture, just as the Welsh, Scottish and Irish have theirs and it is important that we retain our own rather than throw it away as a result of post-colonial guilt

Oh, and I am not a BNP supporter by any means.

I a happy for others to retain their culture, but don't tread on mine.
David Weston, Exeter
commented on 26-Aug-2008 20:15
*
SP Alford - "Get a life you lot and realise that those who would see the BNP banned from elections are no better than the fascists they profess to detest."

Perhaps you could point out these comments demanding that the BNP are banned from elections, because I can't see any.
Rob 'Two Thumbs' Badger, Kenton
commented on 26-Aug-2008 17:15
*
After reading some of the comments posted here, I am seriously considering emmigrating myself. Not because I've got any particular issues with Eddie Ethnic next door, but to get away from the mindless small town illiterate ramblings which any mention of the dreaded BNP in your paper always encourages. Get a life you lot and realise that those who would see the BNP banned from elections are no better than the fascists they profess to detest.
S.P Alford, Smalltown Exeter
commented on 26-Aug-2008 17:06
*
BNP supporters I've met in Exeter are rather unevolved in intellect and appearance. Their opinions on immigrants consists of nothing more than monosyllabic utterances, which are easily destroyed with reason and rationality. I do understand their need to conduct meetings in secret. I too would be ashamed if I lacked any thumbs.
Nu'man El-Bakri, Exeter
commented on 26-Aug-2008 17:02
*
Chris - ¿English - Born Here of Parents with legal British passports¿

Tricky definition there Chris. There¿s no such thing as an English passport and British isn¿t the same as English, is it? ¿Born here¿? So, if you¿re born abroad you can¿t be English? Presumably all those poor, oppressed white folk who are fleeing abroad to avoid the awful immigrants will be flocking back here to have their children. Otherwise, their kids are going to be foreigners and therefore Not Welcome. Parents with British passports eh? So, does it count if just one parent has a passport or does that dilute the purity of one¿s Englishness? Is this the official party definition or is it one you've made up? Either way, it's full of holes.
Go back a few generations and my family comes from places as diverse as Wales, Ireland and Russia. I¿m proud of this country and one of the things that I¿m proud of is it¿s tolerance and diversity. Your party merely provokes feelings of shame.
Rob Badger, Kenton
commented on 26-Aug-2008 16:56
*
So many comments slagging off the BNP, when I bet that most of those, if not all, have visited thier web site and or never even been to a meeting,
it is so easy to condem the people, when they do not get
thier domocratic right to a debate in the public eye, like
that in the Exeter University, when the anti brigade threaten
to disrupt the meeting,
Doreen Goodwin,
Exeter.
Doreen Goodwin, Pennsylvania, Exeter, EX4 5DD
commented on 26-Aug-2008 16:53
*
The publicity on the BNP here in the south west, has been quite big, It is a forgone conclusion, that the BNP will fight in all elections, in all parts of the country in due course, so what's the problem.
It seems to me that most people that you talk to, are fed
up with the old hat party policies, and are simply looking
at other options. The BNP have
quite a great deal of valid policies that has got them elected int council, up and down the country, I think 105,
is the total at present, and in
London, ethnic minorities had
voted for the local BNP councillor,maybe the liked the
policies too.
Mike Turner, Exeter Organiser,
British National Party.
Miek Turner, torbay
commented on 26-Aug-2008 16:39
*
Sarah - "why do you think so many of us British are emigrating??"
Maybe one day you should get someone to sit down and explain the word 'irony' to you....
Emigrating to escape all the immigrants? You couldn't make it up...
Rob Badger, Kenton
commented on 26-Aug-2008 16:27
*
so you are all happy with paying all these taxes so that immagrints come into our country and claim all out benifits when decent working class people get nothing - why do you think so many of us British are emigrating?? too much PC in this world.
sarah, devon
commented on 26-Aug-2008 15:48
*
BNP are right to target area. and yes i hope there do get a seat down here. im a member myself and nobody asked me to become a member i called them ( why ) because i belive in keeping this great country (great)
ian, Heavitree
commented on 26-Aug-2008 15:40
*
English - Born Here of Parents with legal British passports.
chris, Broadclyst
commented on 26-Aug-2008 15:31
*
All the comments I have read regarding the BMP story I agree with exactly. Except jonny from (Exeter) Who is this Johnny guy? Make England English! How?. I,would rather live on Mars then share devon with a load of racists bigots.
julia whatley, Devon
commented on 26-Aug-2008 15:29
*
Jonny-

We live in a society where we embrace and celebrate gay and lesbian partnerships. Why, when same sex marriage is now legalised, do the BNP feel the need to encourage homophobic incitement. Ideals like this are outdated and fundamentally OUTRAGEOUS. As a white, straight, middle-class person myself, I have no problem with same sex relationships, as do all of my peers. It is an outdated concept, which will eventually die like the racism we showed to black people not so many years ago.

Small-mindedness can get you through life, but you CANNOT lead it to the full. It takes a great person to be open-minded and accepting of all people. It takes an open-minded person to lead a meaningful life.

I live within a couple of miles of Broadclyst, and to think that a secret rally went on makes me feel sick. It is interesting to point out however, that the meeting was in fact SECRET. This is surely a testament to those who took part that they are ASHAMED of their beliefs, and know full well that what they believe is wrong. Otherwise, why wouldn't they have made the rally publicised.
Maddi, 21, Exeter
commented on 26-Aug-2008 13:25
*
And who are the English Jonny? If you go way back we are intermingled with the Romans - including North Africans, then we were pushed back to the finges by the Saxons and the Normans. Many of us are a broad racial mix. This just shows what a ridiculous concept 'England for the English' really is. And this leaves aside the issue of whther it is rational to dislike someone just because of the colour of their skin, or their place of birth.
Mark, Walthamstow
commented on 26-Aug-2008 12:55
*
Here we go again! The BNP targeting the South West as they planned to do at the last local elections. Luckily the outcry then resulted in them failing to contest a single seat. rubbish. Scratch the surface of the BNP and you find a party in disarray. We have many problems in this country but they will not be solved by supporting a party that would force loyal British citizens to leave the country and who believe that the colour of someones skin or their sexuality or even their religion dictates whether you can be "English" or not. Interestingly, given the Olympics have just finished, under BNP policies half our team ( and some Gold medal winners ) would have been barred from representing Team GB. Pathetic!
John, Heavitree
commented on 26-Aug-2008 12:51
*
The lies,distortions and propaganda put out by the media no longer have an impact because people can see with their own eyes what's happening on our streets and and also we have something now called the internet where people can get news from more honest,unbiased sources.
Tony Dean, Leeds
commented on 26-Aug-2008 12:41
*
Jonny - do feel free to provide us with a precise definition of 'English'.
Rob Badger, Kenton
commented on 26-Aug-2008 11:44
*
I hope they get it, A real party who arnt afraid to upset people & actually have a vision! Make England for the English again!
Jonny, Exeter
commented on 26-Aug-2008 11:20

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23 comments. Last at: 27-Aug-2008 14:14

*
Well Mike Parsons, other than your childish " burning babies at the stake" comment how are the BNP stories "scaremongering"? Have you read their constitution? I doubt it because until very recently it was secret even from members! They clearly state that the BNP will repatriate non "English" people living in Britain and will bring Ireland back into Great Britain. Not scaremongering. Policy. The only scaremongering that goes on is that expounded by the BNP about immigrants!
John, Heavitree
commented on 27-Aug-2008 13:54
*
And here we have it, more publicity than the BNP could ever have hoped for. There are always more replies to any BNP letter or feature and they get more publicity than other legitimate parties could ever dream of. Instead of believing scaremongering stories about the BNP and how they will forcibly reclaim southern Ireland and how all non-white babies will be burned at the stake etc., try looking on their website and find out exactly why so many people are turning to the BNP, Britain's fastest growing political party.
Mike Parsons, Exeter
commented on 27-Aug-2008 12:10
*
I would be glad to see the BNP target this area and hopefully even gain a seat.

So many people moaning about this and that - whatever happened to free speech?

At the end of the day if the government had any sense we wouldn't be in this position.
Steve, Heavitree
commented on 27-Aug-2008 12:08
*
Interesting that the first thing Sarah links immigrants with is claiming benefits. Perhaps she could furnish us all with the evidence that every single immigrant is receiving state benefits and not working? No, I didn't think so...
K Searle, Exeter
commented on 27-Aug-2008 10:16
*
Mark (of Wathamstow) comments on the English betrays a woeful level of ignorance. Certainly the Romans employed people of many nationalities in their legions - including men from the country we today know as Spain - which was populated in Roman times by a Celtic people, cousins to the Gauls of France and the Celts of England. In addition they stationed troops from what are today the "Low Countries" and Germany here - all of whom bore some kin to the native celts.However there was no mass migration of Romans from anywhere to England. As for our other invaders, the Jutes, Frisiens, Saxons, Vikings and Norse - who did come in great numbers as colonisers - these were cousins to the British celts - sharing linguistic and cultural attributes. Even the Normans (i.e. the descendents of the Vikings who settled in France) and their Frankish & Flemish allies were linguistically and culturally related to the British Celts/English. To infer, therefore, that colonising immigrants from Africa and Asian are a mere continuation of a bastardisation process is both wrong and dishonest.
I welcome the BNP in Devon - if for no other reason than it exposes the ignorance of people who clearly have no knowlege of, or pride in, their own roots.
Bill Essex, Exmouth
commented on 26-Aug-2008 23:31
*
What is Englishness?

Sadly, to be the one nation on earth that feels the need to apologise for its existence.

Worse, that some people are so ashamed of being English that all other cultures are considered superior to us.

As an Englishman born and bred over many generations from a small area of England, I know very well what I mean by Englishness.

What is not English is having French-speaking areas in many cities or having women in full burkas walking around.

I amproud of English culture, just as the Welsh, Scottish and Irish have theirs and it is important that we retain our own rather than throw it away as a result of post-colonial guilt

Oh, and I am not a BNP supporter by any means.

I a happy for others to retain their culture, but don't tread on mine.
David Weston, Exeter
commented on 26-Aug-2008 20:15
*
SP Alford - "Get a life you lot and realise that those who would see the BNP banned from elections are no better than the fascists they profess to detest."

Perhaps you could point out these comments demanding that the BNP are banned from elections, because I can't see any.
Rob 'Two Thumbs' Badger, Kenton
commented on 26-Aug-2008 17:15
*
After reading some of the comments posted here, I am seriously considering emmigrating myself. Not because I've got any particular issues with Eddie Ethnic next door, but to get away from the mindless small town illiterate ramblings which any mention of the dreaded BNP in your paper always encourages. Get a life you lot and realise that those who would see the BNP banned from elections are no better than the fascists they profess to detest.
S.P Alford, Smalltown Exeter
commented on 26-Aug-2008 17:06
*
BNP supporters I've met in Exeter are rather unevolved in intellect and appearance. Their opinions on immigrants consists of nothing more than monosyllabic utterances, which are easily destroyed with reason and rationality. I do understand their need to conduct meetings in secret. I too would be ashamed if I lacked any thumbs.
Nu'man El-Bakri, Exeter
commented on 26-Aug-2008 17:02
*
Chris - ¿English - Born Here of Parents with legal British passports¿

Tricky definition there Chris. There¿s no such thing as an English passport and British isn¿t the same as English, is it? ¿Born here¿? So, if you¿re born abroad you can¿t be English? Presumably all those poor, oppressed white folk who are fleeing abroad to avoid the awful immigrants will be flocking back here to have their children. Otherwise, their kids are going to be foreigners and therefore Not Welcome. Parents with British passports eh? So, does it count if just one parent has a passport or does that dilute the purity of one¿s Englishness? Is this the official party definition or is it one you've made up? Either way, it's full of holes.
Go back a few generations and my family comes from places as diverse as Wales, Ireland and Russia. I¿m proud of this country and one of the things that I¿m proud of is it¿s tolerance and diversity. Your party merely provokes feelings of shame.
Rob Badger, Kenton
commented on 26-Aug-2008 16:56
*
So many comments slagging off the BNP, when I bet that most of those, if not all, have visited thier web site and or never even been to a meeting,
it is so easy to condem the people, when they do not get
thier domocratic right to a debate in the public eye, like
that in the Exeter University, when the anti brigade threaten
to disrupt the meeting,
Doreen Goodwin,
Exeter.
Doreen Goodwin, Pennsylvania, Exeter, EX4 5DD
commented on 26-Aug-2008 16:53
*
The publicity on the BNP here in the south west, has been quite big, It is a forgone conclusion, that the BNP will fight in all elections, in all parts of the country in due course, so what's the problem.
It seems to me that most people that you talk to, are fed
up with the old hat party policies, and are simply looking
at other options. The BNP have
quite a great deal of valid policies that has got them elected int council, up and down the country, I think 105,
is the total at present, and in
London, ethnic minorities had
voted for the local BNP councillor,maybe the liked the
policies too.
Mike Turner, Exeter Organiser,
British National Party.
Miek Turner, torbay
commented on 26-Aug-2008 16:39
*
Sarah - "why do you think so many of us British are emigrating??"
Maybe one day you should get someone to sit down and explain the word 'irony' to you....
Emigrating to escape all the immigrants? You couldn't make it up...
Rob Badger, Kenton
commented on 26-Aug-2008 16:27
*
so you are all happy with paying all these taxes so that immagrints come into our country and claim all out benifits when decent working class people get nothing - why do you think so many of us British are emigrating?? too much PC in this world.
sarah, devon
commented on 26-Aug-2008 15:48
*
BNP are right to target area. and yes i hope there do get a seat down here. im a member myself and nobody asked me to become a member i called them ( why ) because i belive in keeping this great country (great)
ian, Heavitree
commented on 26-Aug-2008 15:40
*
English - Born Here of Parents with legal British passports.
chris, Broadclyst
commented on 26-Aug-2008 15:31
*
All the comments I have read regarding the BMP story I agree with exactly. Except jonny from (Exeter) Who is this Johnny guy? Make England English! How?. I,would rather live on Mars then share devon with a load of racists bigots.
julia whatley, Devon
commented on 26-Aug-2008 15:29
*
Jonny-

We live in a society where we embrace and celebrate gay and lesbian partnerships. Why, when same sex marriage is now legalised, do the BNP feel the need to encourage homophobic incitement. Ideals like this are outdated and fundamentally OUTRAGEOUS. As a white, straight, middle-class person myself, I have no problem with same sex relationships, as do all of my peers. It is an outdated concept, which will eventually die like the racism we showed to black people not so many years ago.

Small-mindedness can get you through life, but you CANNOT lead it to the full. It takes a great person to be open-minded and accepting of all people. It takes an open-minded person to lead a meaningful life.

I live within a couple of miles of Broadclyst, and to think that a secret rally went on makes me feel sick. It is interesting to point out however, that the meeting was in fact SECRET. This is surely a testament to those who took part that they are ASHAMED of their beliefs, and know full well that what they believe is wrong. Otherwise, why wouldn't they have made the rally publicised.
Maddi, 21, Exeter
commented on 26-Aug-2008 13:25
*
And who are the English Jonny? If you go way back we are intermingled with the Romans - including North Africans, then we were pushed back to the finges by the Saxons and the Normans. Many of us are a broad racial mix. This just shows what a ridiculous concept 'England for the English' really is. And this leaves aside the issue of whther it is rational to dislike someone just because of the colour of their skin, or their place of birth.
Mark, Walthamstow
commented on 26-Aug-2008 12:55
*
Here we go again! The BNP targeting the South West as they planned to do at the last local elections. Luckily the outcry then resulted in them failing to contest a single seat. rubbish. Scratch the surface of the BNP and you find a party in disarray. We have many problems in this country but they will not be solved by supporting a party that would force loyal British citizens to leave the country and who believe that the colour of someones skin or their sexuality or even their religion dictates whether you can be "English" or not. Interestingly, given the Olympics have just finished, under BNP policies half our team ( and some Gold medal winners ) would have been barred from representing Team GB. Pathetic!
John, Heavitree
commented on 26-Aug-2008 12:51
*
The lies,distortions and propaganda put out by the media no longer have an impact because people can see with their own eyes what's happening on our streets and and also we have something now called the internet where people can get news from more honest,unbiased sources.
Tony Dean, Leeds
commented on 26-Aug-2008 12:41
*
Jonny - do feel free to provide us with a precise definition of 'English'.
Rob Badger, Kenton
commented on 26-Aug-2008 11:44
*
I hope they get it, A real party who arnt afraid to upset people & actually have a vision! Make England for the English again!
Jonny, Exeter
commented on 26-Aug-2008 11:20


Joey Deacon
Joey Deacon
27 Aug 2008 16:35

A debate eh? So, what are your views on this subject Dullish Roy?

Dullish
Dullish
27 Aug 2008 17:00

Certainly is a debate....one which 'cosy' Devon will have to get accustomed to, thanks to the damage 'New' Labour have done to our civil liberties. People do strange things when suppressed and seek other outlets.

Politics are divisive (whichever Party).....I wouldn't trust any of them.


Joey Deacon
Joey Deacon
27 Aug 2008 17:22

Thanks for your contribution to the debate.

I didn't realise you were a closet BNP supporter, Dullish Roy. I always had you down as a UKIP supporter (not much difference though, I guess).

You have the right to be a supporter of them of course, because we are fortunate enough to live in a democracy. Just like I have the right to deplore their overtly racist and bigoted policies and tactics.

They are entitled to target Devon, but I'm not sure that enough of their core demographic lives in this neck of the woods for them to succeed. I would certainly hope not anyway.

Dullish
Dullish
27 Aug 2008 17:33

Where in my postings have I described myself as a BNP supporter?! So wrong! Once again Joey Deacon takes an accusatory stance in the hope it will make him look superior. Failed miserably as always, with your holier-than-thou(Wally Protheroe/Ted Hockin) approach.

As for hope.....best remove that candyfloss from your eyes

Joey Deacon
Joey Deacon
27 Aug 2008 18:21

Please stop being so aggressive.

A couple of simple questions from me:

1. Do you agree or disagree with BNP policies?

2. Do you 'hope' enough people in this neck of the woods support them so that they get elected?

Dullish
Dullish
27 Aug 2008 18:24

No and No

Joey Deacon
Joey Deacon
27 Aug 2008 19:02

Thanks for the response, even though your answer to question number 1 is very ambiguous.

Dullish
Dullish
27 Aug 2008 19:07

Yet another accusation. Answer is NO.

How about you....are you Lib Dem/Conservative/New Labour (even though they are near enough the same party)?

Joey Deacon
Joey Deacon
27 Aug 2008 20:07

Oh dear. It wasn't an accusation. You know all about accusing people when you have zero evidence, and I wouldn't stoop that low...

The question was:
Do you agree or disagree with BNP policies.

For you to respond with "No" can be, I'm sure you'll agree, judged as being ambiguous.

As for the political party of my choice - you already know mine. Why were you so reticent about answering the same question when I posed it to you at the bottom of the CCTV thread. Funny that, eh?

Dullish
Dullish
27 Aug 2008 20:37

How can NO be ambiguous? I certainly wouldn't waste my time discussing anything in depth with a minion such as yourself.

All you want to do is score points and get the last word......are you under the thumb in your domestic life?

Joey Deacon
Joey Deacon
27 Aug 2008 20:51

Despite you once again resorting to personal insults in an attempt to provide a smokescreen, here's the question for a third time:

Do you agree OR disagree with the policies of the BNP?

"No" is not an answer when it's a multiple choice question!

The answer is either:
a) I agree.
b) I disagree.

Why are you being so ambiguous?

Dullish
Dullish
27 Aug 2008 21:33

B

Dullish
Dullish
27 Aug 2008 21:37

Where do you stand regarding the political beliefs of Protheroe/Hockin/Winchester/Clemens/Mugford/Prowse to name a few of the corrupt ones......

Joey Deacon
Joey Deacon
27 Aug 2008 21:39

Good. At long last Dullish Roy has all but confirmed that he disagrees with BNP's policies. TFFT.

So, hopefully, we'll work together to stop their overtly racist and bigoted policies from taking a stronghold in this region.

Dullish
Dullish
27 Aug 2008 21:45

Couldn't work with money grabbing rotary/roundtable slimeballs.

Where do you stand regarding the political beliefs of Protheroe/Hockin/Winchester/Clemens/Mugford/Prowse to name a few of the corrupt ones......

Joey Deacon
Joey Deacon
27 Aug 2008 21:54

Corruption? Now that IS an accusation!

None of the people you have libelled are representative of my political views.

And why are you being so aggressive and insulting again? I'm not a slimeball. I'm not a Rotarian. I'm not a Roundtabler.

Is it that time of night again? Is the drink starting to talk?

Look at it this way Dullish Roy, if you don't believe what I write on here, then why should anyone believe you when you nearly write that you don't agree with BNP policies?

Again, why are you being so aggressive and insulting?

Dullish
Dullish
27 Aug 2008 22:10

Absolutely sober mr deacon. What is your obsession with alcohol?! Is it the culture you reside in? Once again you come to corrupt councillors defence with your pathetic libel comment. Strange coincidence when you have no affiliation with them.

As for libelous, why do you accuse me of being a BNP supporter when I have stated I am not?

Are people aware that you will promote anything that allows your charity money collecting to go unhindered, regardless of fact or fiction? Shame on you for your belligerence.

Joey Deacon
Joey Deacon
27 Aug 2008 22:19

You're beyond hope mate. I've provided you with honest answers in the hope that you might be able to absorb them and then be able to take part in a reasoned debate without resorting to abuse, libel or distortion.

That was obviously a vain hope.

I'll leave you to wallow in your own mire of libelous delusion. Good luck pal. You need it.

Dullish
Dullish
27 Aug 2008 22:27

Defeatist response is recognised. The sum of your debate is accusing me of being a BNP supporter. What depth you have.....

I would stick to conversation on alcohol....appears to be your forte.

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