General Discussion

Check out www.realitybased.co.uk for the futire of self defence. This training is brought to by SGT Jim Wagner of LA. He works for the Counter Terrorist unit in USA. He has a huge background and now his training has begun in Newton abbot. It will of course be introduced to Dawlish sometime in July. If you are intersted in learning this easy self defence then please visi the website or email me.

You can also check out www.jimwagnertraining.com.

Do you know of any good martial arts schools in Dawlish ?
I have just moved into the area.

yes out shuterton astate,it is an excellent place to train, i train there my self. take a look at www.pdbba.com
click on any photo to enter the gallery. i think they are doing taster sessions at the moment, i reconmend it,

Have you tried any classes? i would recomend it.

Yeah, join the realitybased club mate. It has everything you possibly need from all your kicking and punching to REAL Defence. The only other choice you got is tai kwon do. but that is a bit pants.

If you want to come laong to the club email me ill get you a free months training. Yuor love it

That martial art at dawlish trading estate is for girls. Try a real martial art.

i wouldn't their girly

I tried Tae Kwon Do, it was pretty good, so whats up with the school on the estate?

Well Gary (if that really is your name) one of my students told me you were on this site "having a go" so to speak. Thats right, I am the one who runs the school in Dawlish, so let me address some of your comments. "Reality based". All the the so called Reality based systems that are around now, are based on one persons perseption of what real self defence is, lets look at some shall we, Krav Maga, Fast Defence, Red Man training, CQB (close quarter battle). Then we have the MMA (mixed martial arts) guys, who also think they have the answer. The truth is this, ALL martial arts will work in a given situation, I have been lucky enough in my 35 years of training to have trained with some of the toughest men on the planet, and let me clear this up, NONE OF THEM come from Dawlish.The reality of fighting is simple, it is not the style or system that will make if effective, it is the person who does it that will make it so. The other problem you have with a lot of so called reality based systems, is the law, if you were to use some of the stuff you are shown, you would end up in prison, there is such a thing as reasonable force, go beyond it and they will lock you up my friend. It is all very well these guys from the USA promoting what they do (usually for large sums of money) and they have always been "special forces" or "former police officer" and you can usually buy their DVD's as well (strange that eh!) Prison systems all over the world are full of people who have never done any martial arts, but we know they are effective killing machines and that is why they are where they are. The study of Martial Arts is not just about "taking someone out" and for those shallow few who think it is, you need to find another intrest. From the comments you made, I would imagine you are one of those guys who has, tried karate, tried Ju-Jitsu, tried wing-Chun and a load of others and not been much good at any of them, because to be good at something, you have to stick to it. I meet guys like this all the time, usually they are doormen or would like to be, they train for a while and then quit, because that is what they always do. I hope this has cleared up a few misconceptions for you. Now, either put up or shut up, you know where my school is.

Thanks for your reply. I have tried several different martial arts in the number of years. I have found the reality based training far more effective. But as you say it's not the training so much it's the mental attitude of the person. Some people just have that fighting edge in them. I don't do it for that, i just enjoy the whole senario thing and being part of a club. The training does incorporate excessive moves, but with the crime the way it is at the moment (knife stabbings etc) i feel more confident doing this.

Good luck with your club maybe i'll pop by sometime.

You are more than welcome, keep on kickin.

Hi guys

I have been reading your comments with interest!

The following is my opinion for what it's worth:

Martial arts have taken three distinct directions in the last couple of decades.

Traditional, Sport and Reality Based.

No one is better than the other, but they do serve different needs.

Paul I found your comments about reality based martial arts quite negative and a great deal of the comments were factually incorrect. Is this to try and promote your business by slating others?!

I have tried all three types of martial arts. Despite Paul's comments that students of reality based are people who couldn't get the hang of traditional or sport based, I am actually a qualified instructor in all three.

I am also a Police officer and as such have had first hand experience of violence on a regular basis.

For the above reasons I feel I can give a fairly objective view.

I know from experience that traditional martial arts are too complicated to work in real life. Believe me - Ive been there! In fact I studied Tae Kwon Do for some time and for my first grading I had to learn to count to ten in Korean - my motivation for learning the martial arts was to learn to defend myself, not speak another language.

However, traditional martial arts are great for fitness and development of the mind and I'm sure Paul is a great instructor.

Contrary to what Paul said, reality based martial arts are not all American. Infact, Krav Maga is an israeli self-defence system and FAST defence was developed in Canada.

Reality based systems allow students to gain self-defence in short period of time. Therefore it doesn't take years to learn them. Which also contradicts Paul's comments regarding cost - Traditional martial arts charge just as much as reality based, but it only takes a short period of time - and therefore less money - to learn reality based.

Reality based martial arts train in regular clothes - no expensive uniforms. They do not have regular expensive gradings either. Again - both bring the cost of training down.

I teach a reality based system that charges less than £50 per month for 6 classes per week - Paul, I would be interested if you consider this expensive in comparison to what you charge your students? If you charge less, then maybe your comment about reality based systems being money grabbing and expensive is correct.

Regarding the law - reality based systems teach the use of force continuum as taught in the police and military - which allows students to realise what is excessive and what is not - yet I see no mention of this on Paul's site although he is quite happy to put down systems that it appears he has never experienced.

I do not have a beef with traditional or sports martial arts - but they should not try and sell themselves as a self-defence system when they train on matts and in bear feet and pyjamas. This is far from reality and lures students into a false sense of security. They think that if it works under those conditions it will work in real life - this is not the case.

Paul - try wearing a pair of jeans to your next class and you'll see what I mean ;-)

Reality based students are not wannabe doormen. I train police officers (who HAVE to defend themselves on a regular basis) estate agents, teachers, males, females, the aggressive, the shy and the list goes on. In fact, the one thing they ACTUALLY have in common is that they have tried traditional martial arts and soon realised that practicing a set of complex movements in pyjamas on a nice matted floor is not self-defence. Self-defence is about awareness, avoidance and escape methods. It is about training as close to reality as possible in order to see what your REAL reaction would be, not a set of pre-determined movements or sparring.

Do traditional martial arts teach you what to do if you found a burglar in your house, or what to say to someone who was robbing a bank at gun point or how a person with mental health issues may act? Do they teach you what to do if you're being followed in your car, or how to fight with improvised weapons? What about verbal aggression, do they teach you how to recognise hostility in a potential attacker or the safest place to sit on public transport?

I never learnt any of that in traditional or sport based martial arts - but that is because they serve different purposes.

If you learn a martial art for self defence, ask yourself -do you train in realistic settings (low light conditions, car parks, regular clothing)?, does the instuctor have experience of real life violence?, does the system have a handful of simple techniques based on what your body would do naturally in the heat of conflict?, are you tested in a realistic environment regularly?, are the techniques taught based on current crime trends such as happy slapping and car jacking? If the answer to these questions are yes, then you've found a realistic self-defence system that will serve you well if you are attacked. If not and the instructor tells you they are teaching self-defence, then be very careful.

If they are honest and tell you the differences between traditional, sport and reality based, then you know what you are getting into.

Paul, forgive me for sounding defensive about reality based martial arts, but you gave a great deal of false information on your post about them.

Remember my caveat at the start of this post - I have no beef with traditional martial arts or sport based. But they do serve different needs of students. Please refrain from slating something you have no experience of simply to try and promote your business.

I do not intend to get into an email squabble over this and as such will not post any further messages. I just felt a bit of balance was needed!

Paul, good luck with your business - Remember, you don't need to slate other systems to make money, I'm sure you already have a great product - concentrate on that instead!

Best regards - Pete

I was not slating anyone. Simply defending my position, and I am fully aware where krav mega and fast defence come from as I have studied them as well, but I also get all the trade mags from the USA and know what they charge and krave mega is BIG business over there, as I have been to the USA on three occassions and trained at some of the schools there. But thank you for your comments, very intresting. Please visit my website at:www.pdbba.com
Keep up the good work, you guys have a tough job these days.

Paul