General Discussion

A questionable butterfly

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Joechilwell7837
Ultimateody90
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aolsupport18
Dietrich
Tracyjohnson123412
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Jsandles39
Charmediam
wilsonjack
Lynne
Lynne
18 Aug 2018 18:11

Okay - I'll start the ball rolling again.

Read this and discuss

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honor_killing

 

 

Diana Mond
Diana Mond
18 Aug 2018 22:29

The attempted control of women also happens on this website. Particularly by a certain white, middle-aged, red-faced man who whines to this sites webmaster when they don’t like what he subjectively reads. He’s an utterly hypocritical racist/misogynistic prick. I don’t need to name names...

 

 

1 Agree
elvis presley
elvis presley
19 Aug 2018 10:23

This is already going down hill, before it starts. What a hoot!

7 Agrees
DEEDOODLE
DEEDOODLE
19 Aug 2018 11:03

The blight that keeps on giving, although not wanted.

2 Agrees
Diana Mond
Diana Mond
19 Aug 2018 11:13

And here they come. The freedom of speech brigade wanting to censor others. 

Lynne
Lynne
19 Aug 2018 11:50

Let's look at this controlling of women, by men, in this country.

At present day Christian marriage ceremonies do women still promise to 'obey' their husbands? Surely if you promise to obey someone then that means the other person has control over you.

 

And as I'm on the subject of marriage. Why is the bride 'given away'?

"Who giveth this woman to this man?"

And then the bride changes her surname from that of her father to that of her new husband. Denoting what? A transfer of ownership from one man to another? 

1 Agree
Lynne
Lynne
19 Aug 2018 13:24

For some reason (ahem!) a memory came to my mind of an incident way back in the late 1960s/early 1970s when an aunt of mine told me that her husband had to give his permission for her to have a hysterectomy.

So whose womb was it?!!!!!

Anyway,  having checked to see if my memory was fabricating things or indeed that all this did indeed take place, I checked.

And yep! It sure did more than likely occur as this practice (of needing a husband's permission to remove his wife's womb) did not stop until 1972.

lhttps://www.justanswer.co.uk/law/8wfg3-when-law-change-married-woman-surgery.html

  

 

burneside
burneside
19 Aug 2018 13:40

I suggest you seek psychiatric help, Mrs C, I'm sure you will benefit from it.

3 Agrees
Lynne
Lynne
19 Aug 2018 13:46

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear. Here we go.

Accusations of insanity to women who won't stay quiet/answer back/conform to the norm 

 

Victorian Women and Insanity - Jstor

 
https://www.jstor.org/stable/3827084
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by E Showalter - ‎1980 - ‎Cited by 132 - ‎Related articles
VICTORIAN WOMEN AND INSANITY*. ON BOXING DAY 1851, CHARLES DICKENS GAVE UP AN. Pantomime to attend a very different kind of holid patients' ...
 

[PDF]“Frailty, thy name is woman”: Depictions of Female Madness

 
https://scholarscompass.vcu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=4744&context=etd
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by J Little - ‎2015 - ‎Cited by 1 - ‎Related articles
This Thesis is brought to you for free and open access by the Graduate School at VCU Scholars Compass. It has been accepted for inclusion in Theses.
 

[PDF]Women and Madness-1 - NYU

 
www.nyu.edu/classes/keefer/EvergreenEnergy/woodst.pdf
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by T Woods - ‎Cited by 3 - ‎Related articles
From the mad heroines of classic Victorian literature to the portrayal of insanity in modern Western texts and Middle Eastern writing, women suffering from mental ...
 

Women and Madness - HerStoria

 
https://herstoria.com/women-and-madness/
  1.  
 

Women and Madness - University of Warwick

 
https://warwick.ac.uk/fac/arts/history/chm/outreach/trade_in.../womenandmadness/
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by H Marland - ‎Related articles
19 Jun 2013 - Portrait of Mad Margery, a young woman driven mad and living in the fields, possibly taken from a popular song 'Poor Mad Margery' ...
 

The Female Malady? Madness and Gender - University of Warwick

 
https://warwick.ac.uk/fac/arts/history/students/modules/hi383/syllabus/topic7/
  1.  
22 Dec 2015 - Numerous historians have engaged themselves with the question of whether psychiatry, particularly 19th-century psychiatry, discriminated ...
 

[PDF]Women and Madness in the 19 Century - Skemman

 
https://skemman.is/bitstream/1946/16449/1/BA-ElisabetRakelSigurdar.pdf
  1.  
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by ER Sigurðardóttir - ‎Cited by 5 - ‎Related articles
Women and Madness in the 19 th. Century. The effects of oppression on women's mental health. Ritgerð til BA prófs í ensku. Elísabet Rakel Sigurðardóttir.
 

The Hysterical Female

 
https://www.lib.uwo.ca/archives/virtualexhibits/londonasylum/hysteria.html
  1.  
  2.  
This perception of femininity led to the popular conclusion that women were more ... for the diagnosis ofinsanity in many female patients during the 19th century.
 

BBC News - Were the 'mad' heroines of literature really sane?

 
news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/8622367.stm
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  2.  
18 Apr 2010 - Vivienne Parry explores ideas of madness and mental health among ... Female insanitywas often bound up with ideas of sexuality in the 1850s ...
 
 

Sent to the asylum: The Victorian women locked up because they ...

 
www.dailymail.co.uk/.../Sent-asylum-The-Victorian-women-locked-suffering-stress-p...
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12 May 2012 - Diagnosis: Insanity caused by overwork. Then, however, women could find themselves labelled insane and locked up in madhouses for a ...
 
 
 
 

 

 
 
 

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1 Agree
webmaster
webmaster
19 Aug 2018 13:54

In order to stop the bickering, anyone posting personal attacks from now will have their account suspended, so please let's stop it.

4 Agrees
elvis presley
elvis presley
19 Aug 2018 16:03

Won't be anybody left.

6 Agrees
Lynne
Lynne
19 Aug 2018 18:55
1 Agree
Margaret Swift
Margaret Swift
19 Aug 2018 21:06

@Lynne, i think you are just a little bit out of date. the choice of wording for marriage vows at any wedding, including christian, has been up to the individual since at least 1970! i was first married in 1975 and never included the ridiculous notion of obey, nor at my second marriage ceremony. and more than half of my friends kept their own name, including me. women do have choices, some choose to obey and take their husbands name and overs don’t, neither are wrong.

2 Agrees
Lynne
Lynne
20 Aug 2018 06:58

Margaret, I know it is now a choice whether to include the obey vow.  But that is only a fairly recent event as you yourself point out.  I know also that some married women keep their father's surname (or double-barrel it with that of their husbands - some husbands even do the same) but again all this is fairly recent stuff. 

 

 

"Only in 1965 did married women in France obtain the right to work without their husbands’ consent. In Australia, married women could not apply for passports without their husband’s approval until 1983. Britain did not make marital rape illegal until 1991."

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/feb/02/thats-patriarchy-how-female-sexual-liberation-led-to-male-sexual-entitlement

 

Contemporary Britain may not be as patriarchal as it has been in the past, lots of progress has been made, but there is still some way to go.  

 

          

1 Agree
Lynne
Lynne
20 Aug 2018 07:36

Women and sexual activity. Why are women (and gay men?) on the receiving end of, for example, 'slut shaming' and not men? 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slut-shaming  

 

and I've just read this today online https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/merseyside-police-rape-tweet-victim-blaming-liverpool-council-twitter-a8498736.html 

so what are we saying? That if women act and dress in a certain way then if they get raped it is their fault? That the man/men who do the raping are not at fault? 

 

 

1 Agree
Margaret Swift
Margaret Swift
20 Aug 2018 10:18

@Lynne i responded to your post because you specifically said at present day christian marriages. you were implying that everything you said is happening now, to everyone, which is not true. things have improved and, yes, there is still some way to go, particularly in the way the media (the whole spectrum of media) depicts males and females. 

Lynne
Lynne
20 Aug 2018 11:20

Actually, I asked a question - note the question mark.

"At present day Christian marriage ceremonies do women still promise to 'obey' their husbands?" 

 

 

Perhaps it should be amended  to:

"At present day Christian marriage ceremonies do (some) women still promise to 'obey' their husbands?" 

 

Here's another question: why was/is it the woman who promises to obey the man and not the other way around? 

 

I wonder if it has anything to do with women's place according to the bible?:

 

Subjugation of Women (Forerunner Commentary) - Bible Tools

 
https://www.bibletools.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/.../Subjugation-of-Women.htm
  1.  
Eve's curse has resulted in the virtual subjugation of women ever since. Until the Enlightenment in the 18th century, women had few rights, if any. Fathers sold ...

Women, Subjugation of (Forerunner Commentary) - Bible Tools

 
https://www.bibletools.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/.../Women-Subjugation-of-.htm
  1.  
Eve's curse has resulted in the virtual subjugation of women ever since. Until the Enlightenment in the 18th century, women had few rights, if any. Fathers sold ...

The Dark Bible: Women's Inferior Status - NoBeliefs.com

 
https://www.nobeliefs.com/DarkBible/darkbible7.htm
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The Biblical view of women. The God of the Bible decrees that woman must submit to the dominance of .... "Let the women learn in silence with all subjection.
 

Does Scripture Subjugate Women Or Do We? | CBE International

 
https://www.cbeinternational.org/blogs/does-scripture-subjugate-women-or-do-we
  1.  
7 Apr 2017 - This requires getting into the minds of the biblical authors to figure out ... interpret thesubjection of women to men, for all time, in God's Word.

THE STATUS OF WOMEN IN THE OLD TESTAMENT

 
www.religioustolerance.org/ofe_bibl.htm
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  2.  
11 Jul 2016 - Exodus 20 & 21: This is perhaps the most misogynistic pair of chapters in the Bible. A number of verses describe a woman as the property of ...
 

Ten Reasons for Women to Reject Christianity - The Faithless Feminist

 
https://faithlessfeminist.com › Blog › Women and Religion
  1.  
  2.  
16 Sep 2015 - Eve. Most Christians believe that God is omnipotent which means all powerful. Most also believe that the Bible is the inspired word of God with ...

Changing Genesis 3:16 to Rationalize the Subjugation of Women: A ...

 
https://equalityworkbook.wordpress.com/.../changing-genesis-316-to-rationalize-the-s...
  1.  
15 Jan 2017 - The subjugation of women by men is depicted… ... to Rationalize the Subjugation of Women: A response to planned changes in the ESV Bible.

Is Christianity Oppressive to Women?...... | Christian History

 
https://www.christianitytoday.com/history/.../is-christianity-oppressive-to-women.html
8 Aug 2008 - From the beginning of Christianity, women have been included in the ... But in others, the church has fallen far from its Bible—which sees both ...
 

What Does the Bible Say About Women's Rights

 
https://www.christianbiblereference.org/faq_womensrights.htm
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However, in the course of history, it has sometimes been thought that God's punishment of Eve was justification for degradation and subjugation of women.
 

The Bible's Anti-Woman Views - Cyber College

 
https://cybercollege.com/antiwoman.htm
  1.  
... it also has passages that have been responsible for the subjugation and degradation of women. Over the centuries these Biblical views have been absorbed ...
 
 

 

 
 

 

 

S
S
20 Aug 2018 11:48

The bible is a collection of books written (made up) by men so why do you think it would say anything other than control over women given the time these stories were written?

1 Agree
S
S
20 Aug 2018 11:50

We have worked to correct the indoctrination of religion over recent history. We still have work to do but laws/attitudes over the last 40 years are moving in the right direction.  

1 Agree
Lynne
Lynne
20 Aug 2018 12:03

I totally agree that the bible is a collection of stories made up by men. But others think it is all the word of God. And isn't God a male? 

And it's not only Judaism/Christianity that has this attitude towards women. Click on this link and then scroll down to the In Religious Thought section.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matriarchy

1 Agree
DEEDOODLE
DEEDOODLE
20 Aug 2018 12:44

@S .. do you have the same view towards, say the quran?

S
S
20 Aug 2018 14:23

@DEEDOODLE yes, all religions were made up by men.

2 Agrees
S
S
20 Aug 2018 14:28

@DEEDOODLE I would put all Abrahamic religions in the same box as they have similar roots to their beliefs

1 Agree
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