General Discussion

New Play Park - Part 2

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ZIGGY
ZIGGY
28 Jul 2017 15:15
Lynne
Lynne
28 Jul 2017 15:24

and here are the minutes of the full council meeting held on 6th July last year when the play park issue was debated and voted on

http://www.dawlish.gov.uk/edit/uploads/2092_577481209.pdf

and these minutes (see below) of the full council meeting held 14th July last year have more info (including why the playpark couldn't be built on the site of the piazza - it would cost too much).

http://www.dawlish.gov.uk/edit/uploads/2094_770358022.pdf

 

and more minutes here from the full council meeting held 7th September 2017. There is a bit at the beginning from a member of the public but then scroll down to item 67 for the minute on the playpark

http://www.dawlish.gov.uk/edit/uploads/2106_920823159.pdf

 

1 Agree
Margaret Swift
Margaret Swift
28 Jul 2017 22:06

We need a referendum! Similar to the Manor House. 

1 Agree
JD2017
JD2017
28 Jul 2017 22:08

Do we need a referendum for every decision that elected councillors make? I thought those referendums were called elections?

Margaret Swift
Margaret Swift
28 Jul 2017 22:26

Ordinarily I would agree with you, but on such an important decision that will change the character of Dawlish for ever I think a referendum is needed. 

1 Agree
leatash
leatash
28 Jul 2017 22:28

The point is the people voted and for Dawlish 570+ votes is not bad, about the same as the vote for work on the Strand what the low number of votes says to me is the people of Dawlish dont give a monkeys whether it goes there or not and lets be honest only a handfull of folk are interested one way or the other.

leatash
leatash
28 Jul 2017 22:41

Population about 15,600 give or take 600 so if thats the case about 3.7% of the population found the time or had interest in the new playpark and a referendum came about we would have the same result because nobody cares.

Margaret Swift
Margaret Swift
28 Jul 2017 23:31

Dawlish Town Coucillors changed the character of Dawlish Warren for ever in 2001 with the demolishion of the quaint individual retail huts replaced by the huge concrete monstrosity we have today! Do not allow them to destroy Dawlish simply because they are councillors!! Remember, they have no qualifications for the job and are there to do what we want! 

2 Agrees
Lynne
Lynne
29 Jul 2017 08:21

I have no strong feelings either way on this matter so when I say what I say below I am not saying it necessarily because I am on the 'we want a playpark on the lawn' team.

 

A referendum was held. People had the choice to vote or not. Of those that voted the majority chose to have a playpark on a certain part of the lawn.

 

The people have spoken.

 

Some people don't like the outcome - so they are urging that the result be ignored or that a second referendum be held.

Sound familiar?

 

(and before anyone tells me - yes, I know, there was no option on the consultation/referendum paper for there to be no playpark at all, anywhere, on the lawn).  

 

Perhaps the first question should have been;

Should there be a playpark on the lawn?

Yes

or

No 

 

Can someone tell me why that question was not asked?

Who devised the questions? An independent body or were any of those lobbying for the playpark to be built (and specifically to be built somewhere on the lawn) involved?

 

 

And does anyone know what was decided at the last F&GP meeting concerning the funding of this proposed playpark?

 

 

 

Lynne
Lynne
29 Jul 2017 08:30

For those who are unhappy with what is being proposed you might find some recourse by way of a Parish Poll. I believe this is what was instigated when the saga of the proposed selling off of the Manor House was on the cards back in 2009/10.

 

To find out more, just type in Parish Poll and hit the search button.

Then it's over to you what you do (or not).   

DEEDOODLE
DEEDOODLE
30 Jul 2017 16:00

Anyone know how to intiate a parish poll. If the only way to put a stop to the nonsense of the play park on the Lawn is to start this process I would like to know what is involved and how it can be initiated. It certainly worked on the issue of the Manor House !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have checked on the internet and am no wiser.

 

http://www.dawlishnewspapers.co.uk/article.cfm?id=50&headline=Manor%E2%80%99s%20aborted%20move%20%E2%80%98leaves%20town%20with%20%C2%A3250k%20debt%E2%80%99&sectionIs=news&searchyear=2011

Lynne
Lynne
30 Jul 2017 16:55

I see two faces in the picture shown in that link of people who are presently councillors.

Recently elected Cllr Mawhood and elected wef 2011 (I think) Cllr Terry Lowther.

Try them? 

I have no idea where either of them stand on the playpark issue. 

 

Or you could try the National Association of Local Councils http://www.nalc.gov.uk/contact-us 

 

 

Lynne
Lynne
30 Jul 2017 17:10

and below are the councillors who sit on the town council's Finance and General Purposes committee. F&GP met about 10 days ago to discuss, amongst other things, 

possible funding streams for the the building of the playpark. I have no idea which of the councillors below attended the meeting but if anyone reading this post wants

to know the outcome of the committee's deliberations then dropping one of them an email (Cllr Clemens perhaps?) and asking might be a course of action?

 

Cllr Humphrey Clemens (Chairman)
Cllr Terry Lowther (Vice Chairman)
Cllr Howard Almond
Cllr Angela Fenne
Cllr Greg Fenne
Cllr Graham Price
Cllr Gary Taylor
leatash
leatash
31 Jul 2017 08:34

What i would like to know is how many Dawlish residents use the lawn on a regular basis now i have been here 33 years and have spent no more than 1 or 2 hours on the Lawn yes it's a nice green space and visitors love it, and it's used for a few events but most of the time it's just there empty and green.  It strikes me that these days folk are not happy with any result that involves a vote Brexit, General Election, The Strand, The Playpark and want to rerun the system over and over untill they get the result they want as Lynne says you had your chance now that chance has gone. So stop winging and live with it and stop trying to change what the people voted for it matters not if there were 2 votes or 10,000 votes thats the system and the majority voted for a play   park so give the people what they want. I look out on the Lawns every day and yes it's nice but i don't give a jot if we have a play park or not what i care about is folk manipulating the system because they dont like the result it's becoming a national pastime to try to overturn the will of the people the system is the system like it or loath it sort of works.

2 Agrees
DEEDOODLE
DEEDOODLE
31 Jul 2017 09:00

@leatash - you seem to be missing the point that not one question asked if anyone wanted a play park on the lawn.

 

I am in favour of true democracy, but the basis for this play park is on a one sided set of questions that did not let those who took part answer that they did NOT want it. I and several others who DID take part catagorically put in the comments section of several questions that I did NOT want a play park on The Lawn. The comments to these questions do not seem to be available or used.

Your whole argument is based on the twisted and warped results that would only end in a result of WHERE on The Lawn it would be sited. You may have lived here for 33 years, but I feel sad for you that you have not enjoyed The Lawn and its idylic features, obviously minus the D.D&D.C.

Also I do not think that you are in any position to quantify the use of The Lawn by others, if reading your commnets correctly, you have only spent at most a couple of hours on The Lawn in the last 33 years. I feel there is a difference between looking out of a window and actually immersing yourself in The Lawn environment.

'folk manipulating the system' I think that's a bit rich. You obviously do not understand what democracy and fair/balanced questionnaire's are!

I respect your opinion, but find it hard to belive that you cannot see the wood for the trees.

 

2 Agrees
leatash
leatash
31 Jul 2017 11:07

Idylic features?  The Lake District has idylic features, as do the Highlands of Scotland, Dartmoor and the South West Coastal Path, but the Lawns, that's stretching things just a bit.  Then there's the Lawn environment it's an area of grass, its not even well maintained.  Now 30 years ago it was a sight to behold, well maintained wonderful flower beds, with a team of gardeners who took pride in their work,  but then Dawlish was a thriving busy town with a well maintained clean town centre.  Dawlish was the jewel of the South Devon Coast and now it's a sad little place, dirty and poorly maintained and it needs dragging into the 21st century ASAP.  I have always kept a diary, silly really, but looking back 30 years, today I was having a new kitchen fitted and went out for breakfast to the Strand Cafe at 0940 and had to queue outside for 25 minutes and every cafe was the same.  Now fast forward to 31/07/2017 1039am there's no one about and its only going to get worse unless we start giving the holiday makers what they want!

DEEDOODLE
DEEDOODLE
31 Jul 2017 15:15

@leatash ... not based on a questionnaire that only asked where on the lawn and not, do you want a play park on the lawn?

It is not Dawlish councils right to put out a questionnaire that does not allow the people of Dawlish a fair and balanced set of questions for the issue of this play park.

5 Agrees
leatash
leatash
31 Jul 2017 17:13

And this is why Dawlish is as it is the place is full of nimby's does it matter, not one jot everything that is proposed for this town is wrong and that's ok if you want to live in a dying town and it is dying every year it attracts less and less people.  New shops open last two seasons and close this town revolves round six weeks of summer hollidays and on the 6/09/2017 it will all be over for another year out of interest DEEDOODLE did you vote or fill in the questionnaire i know i did. 

Lynne
Lynne
31 Jul 2017 18:26

Never mind Leatash - when we leave the EU all those Brits who have been going to southern Europe for their hols can holiday in the UK instead.

 

JD2017
JD2017
31 Jul 2017 20:51

Those who didn't want a play park anywhere on the lawn had the option to select "No" against each of the questions. The results were overwhelmingly in favour so, using a phrase that I believe to be favoured by Brexity Rollers, "Get over it".

 

 

leatash
leatash
31 Jul 2017 21:01

I dont expect  folk will but i believe that there is a lot to be gained visiting the wilds of the UK I was in Orkney last year weather was ok but Skara brae the Italian Chapel and Churchill Barriers were amazing and the bonus Trout and Salmon fishing was free.

leatash
leatash
31 Jul 2017 22:06

17072409p

leatash
leatash
31 Jul 2017 22:07

Now thats idylic and it's a world heritage site here in the UK glorious weather pic taken this morning from the shores of Buttermere.

1 Agree
Lynne
Lynne
31 Jul 2017 22:16

Blimey! It isn't raining! 

Was that picture photo-shopped?

leatash
leatash
31 Jul 2017 23:28

No photo shop Lynne just as it was but whatever the weather it's always stunning.

DEEDOODLE
DEEDOODLE
01 Aug 2017 09:40

@JD2017 -you are incorrect in your statement that placing no against the questrions would mean that you did not want a play park on the lawn. it merely stated that you did not want it in the specified locations on the lawn. again, as i seem to be repeating myself for some reason...the questionaire did not ask the most specific question that was...do you want a play park on 'the lawn'?

In my opinion for this ADDITIONAL play park to go ahead the residents of DAWLISH need to be given the opportunity to say YES/NO to whether they wish a play park on The Lawn.

@Leatesh - if we let the Dawlish council railroad through every hair brained project that pops into their head we would have a play park and a barnacle bandstand on The Lawn. What next a creche for the D.D&D.C..cynical maybe...just leave The Lawn alone and use the play park near the manor house. Also if you had read my previous statements you would already know the answer to your inquiry at  31 july 2017 18:26

2 Agrees
Lynne
Lynne
01 Aug 2017 11:20

So.......does anyone know why there was no question on the paper asking if people wished there to be a playpark on the lawn?

 

Someone, somewhere must know the answer to that.

 

I'll tell you who I think would know. All those who were councillors last year when this was being discussed first at Civic Amenities Committee (CAC) and then at full

council.

But do I think any of them will break ranks and say why?

 

Hmmmm............

 

BTW - Has anyone contacted the Chair of FG&P yet (Cllr Clemens) asking what the outcome was about the funding of the proposed playpark?

Here's his email address: humphreyclem@aol.com 

leatash
leatash
01 Aug 2017 13:38

The point is no one cares only a few hundred people voted that shows the level of interest in the subject and a further vote would be the same nobody gives a monkeys apart from maybe 1 or 2 folk.

TheObserver
TheObserver
03 Aug 2017 14:02

Playpark is great, but let's make the most of what Dawlish has, why waste money, time and beautiful land over something that like the rest of Dawlish, will go rot and ruin. Let's face it, the Museum needs help, the brook is filfthy and unattractive now, the toliets at boatcove are shabby chic now, the manor is full of needles, the strand looks filthy and the once cream slabs are now looking a darker shade of brown, the manor play park that was once a height of a childs imagination now has gone down hill and is tired and unattractive. The bowling club is old and looks ready to collpase in the roof, perhaps a new multistorey with viewing platforms would be nice. The bandstand, if they are never going to rebuild it, could atleast do with some TLC. Let's spend money where we have things, make the most of them. 

2 Agrees
Lynne
Lynne
04 Aug 2017 11:01

I understand that the area designated for the playpark is the whole area between the bandstand and the bowling green.

Does anyone know what was decided about funding at the last F&GP meeting? 

Duckileaks
Duckileaks
04 Aug 2017 11:56

I heard that the vote was in favour of the play park, but don't know more than that.

It was 4 -3 in favour.  Those in favour were Cllrs Clemens, both Fennes and one other that I can't remember.  Against were Cllrs Wrigley, Lowther & Almond I believe

TheObserver
TheObserver
04 Aug 2017 13:37

I just don't understand the whole point to be frank in a playpark, when we can't look after what we already have. 

4 Agrees
DEEDOODLE
DEEDOODLE
22 Aug 2017 19:47

Does the play park proposed for The Lawn need planning permission from Teignbridge planning dept, possibly not!

 

How much of The Lawn will eventually be taken up by this white elephant!

 

Are anymore trees going to be cut down!

 

Just wait until it has been built and see how many people will start moaning about how small The Lawn is for the other 99% of The people who enjoy The Lawn as it currently is!

1 Agree
elvis presley
elvis presley
22 Aug 2017 20:27

Send the little horrors down to the beach with a bucket and spade. Job done.

1 Agree
leatash
leatash
22 Aug 2017 20:49

All the Chestnuts on the lawn have Bleeding Canker a disease that was introduced into the Uk around 2001 they will all eventually be felled some will die faster than others but they will all have to go.

ER113
ER113
22 Aug 2017 21:47

Maybe some of the contributors above might just check to see what sort of democracy we have. Its called Representative Democracy. That means we elect people to represent us. They do that  by making decisions. They do not have to consult anyone.

 

Margaret Swift is wrong in the following assertions: "Remember, they have no qualifications for the job and are there to do what we want!"

They do have qualifications - they were elected! And, as I said above, they represent us by taking decisions: they have done which is the point of democracy. if you don't like them or their decisions you can vote them out.

1 Agree
burneside
burneside
22 Aug 2017 22:41

That doesn't mean electors have to keep their traps shut for four years between elections.  A shot fired across the Council's bows works wonders.  Just remember the Manor House furore, and then the successful campaign to kill the "woodlouse" development on The Lawn.  Councillors do not have carte blanche to do what they like.

4 Agrees
DEEDOODLE
DEEDOODLE
23 Aug 2017 08:04

@ER113 - it doesn't mean that they are in a position where they should be allowed to pick and choose what parts the kids park  public survey results the public should or shoud not see., that being all the comments that, in my opinion are relavent, may well have said no to it on any part of the lawn...i know i did and several others who filled out the survey!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As to, they were elected, yes .. they were elected to represent the people of Dawlish and their interests not to pursue their own little pet projects at the expense of the desecration of the central feature of Dawlish. and YES they should consult with the electorate over decisions that will permanently change such an important part of the face of Dawlish.

Also ,why are so few concerned at the incorrectly published statistics, and the lack of visability of the comments that were a key part of the survey,  to bolster the play park goes ahead. As burnside has stated this is not the first time this has happened.

 

2 Agrees
leatash
leatash
23 Aug 2017 09:39

Speaking to a number of traders over the last few days they all tell the same story takings down by 20 - 35% on this time last year. Now if this trend continues we will end up with a totaly dead town. Is the lawn used by the residents of Dawlish?  i dont think it is. i dont know anyone who uses it on a regular basis and only venture onto the Lawn during the carnival and fair. The problem with Dawlish is folk move here and then fight every idea to improve the town, why they want to retain what brought them here in the first place. The problem is we are a holliday resort and need to cater for the those who visit. We are now in the 21st century and need to up our game not for the locals benefit but the visitor. For arguments' sake there is no free wifi. I was recently in Betty Hill look it up theres nowt there, but they have free wifi.  Why? it makes folk stop and spend a bit of time there.  I have witnessed Dawlish going down like a ship that is slowly taking on water and is getting lower and lower in the water.  Well people, get your life jackets on because she's settling at the bow.

1 Agree
Lynne
Lynne
23 Aug 2017 11:01

Perhaps the awful summer weather this year may have negatively impacted on the takings in the town.

4 Agrees
TheObserver
TheObserver
23 Aug 2017 11:40

@ER113 - yes they were elected, but that does not automatically assign them to having any qualification to be able to fulfil thier role. most expereinced councillors, sitting long term, look to the town clerk for answers, leglisation, regulations and guidance. most councillors on the dawlish town council, only hold expereince and interest, not an actual regulated qualification. now if you want to argue with me on that matter, please do, i look forward to seeing the evidence of what qualification each member of the chamber holds in relevance to the position and committees they sit upon within the parish.

 

Let's see a new Bandstand, it's clear we are not going to get the armadillo shell that was in recent years proprosed, but why not something like Newton Abbot, lovely open plan Bandstand. Then let's remember that Dawlish is very much an histroical and conservation town, a vast history of Victorian and Steam heritage, Let's make the most of that and make Dawlish pretty once more. 

1 Agree
DEEDOODLE
DEEDOODLE
23 Aug 2017 13:34

@ER113-well said...as to the band stand, after they build the new play park will there be enough room for a replacement band stand.

leatash
leatash
23 Aug 2017 13:58

Lynne, it's not the weather that's stopping folk coming.  I have just walked up Brunswick Place and got chatting to some great folk from Nottingham, who have been visiting Dawlish for 30 years but it's their last year here.  Their comments were as follows.  " We have our grand children with us and the place is full of druggies and drinkers, it's realy dirty in fact its worse than Nottingam, and the parking's getting worse, less spaces and expensive, plus the caravan we have cost more for a week than flying to Spain." I would hazard a guess that's why folk are going to other places i was on the M5 southbound from Bristol on Saturday and it was nose to tail all the way to Exeter so where are all those people?  Well they are in resorts that provide for tourists 

2 Agrees
Cassandra
Cassandra
23 Aug 2017 20:57

Lynne is right about the weather being a factor in people not coming to the town, in fact I have heard people are going home mid-week from the camps because it's been so awful. The thing is, there's not very much to do in Dawlish when the weather's as bad as it's been recently, especially for families. I expect that Trago has been packing them in.

majorp
majorp
23 Aug 2017 21:17

Dawlish as I see it is full of estate agents, cafe's and druggies.

They are building too many houses with no space left for anything else, and it is that anything else we require, but where would it go? as far out of town as possible like this new so called play park. Who's going to go there? And who is going to come to Dawlish in the years to come, just to sit in a cafe, watch druggies and maybe browse estate agent's and look at properties that they can ill afford. 

Diana Mond
Diana Mond
23 Aug 2017 22:26

Let's go for a walk down the Strand, with all the new householders taking their kids to the wonderful new play park. 

 

First stop is a lovely bakery, followed by a travel agent, a lettings agent and then an estate agent. Quickly followed by a fabulous health foods store, a beauty therapist salon, a chiropractor and then an osteopath! 

Next up is Thorntons and then Presents of Dawlish for your quirky gifts. The British Red Cross have their shop next door. 

 

Eventually, in no particular order because we love strolling back and forth, we get to a couple of cafes and a couple of restaurants, an opticians, a mobile phone shop, a gallery (!!), a post office / convenience store, another beauty parlour, a Boots, a sweet shop, a handbag shop, Ten Green Bottles for quality gifts, a shoe shop, a ladies fashion store, another bakery, Bastins for all sorts of stuff, a butchers, a flower shop, a supermarket, a bank and a couple of bookmakers.

 

And that's just the Strand. 

 

It's not quite the same picture is it, that the doom and gloom merchants would have you believe? 

 

 

Margaret Swift
Margaret Swift
24 Aug 2017 00:29

Well said Diana! A fair description of the Strand. Get a grip everybody, including our town councillors, who, by and large, do not have qualifications for the job they do and don't appear to understand our town!

 

We are NOT a resort where people come to stay, we have lost our hotels, holiday flats and a lot of B&Bs so people stay in Dawlish Warren. But, we are a resort for the day trippers and they come in coachloads or by train! They don't need a playpark and they don't want to see druggies and drunks on the lawn. They need more of the lovely independent shops we have started to build up in town. They want to sit on a bench in the lawn area or on the sea front (Network Rail take note),  they want to see the black swans and they want a good cup of tea and a nice piece of cake. They want to enjoy Dawlish and they do! But we all need to work harder to ensure our beautiful town continues to be just that! 

2 Agrees
TheObserver
TheObserver
24 Aug 2017 09:45

@Margaret Swift i couldn't agree more with your views, shall we form a new working party?

1 Agree
Lynne
Lynne
24 Aug 2017 10:38

@TheObserver - but would you and Margaret have the necessary qualifications? :)

TheObserver
TheObserver
24 Aug 2017 11:20

@Lynne - well considering we have both sat upon the town council is that not enough? i never knew in all my years that you had to have city & guilds, nvq's and a degree to represent your town as @ER113 somehow thinks you do need. 

Lynne
Lynne
24 Aug 2017 12:29

So.......the only way to gain the experience necessary to be a councillor is by having been a er.............councillor?  

And as for a working party. Would those on it be elected on to it or would they be self selecting? Would a pre-requisite be that a candidate must have been a councillor somewhere at sometime in their lives?

where has @ER113 said anything about city & guild etc qualfications? i can only see one post from er113 and the only qualification s/he talks about is that of having been elected.  

  

TheObserver
TheObserver
24 Aug 2017 12:44

@Lynne, firstly what has any of this to do with a play park, you know as much as we do about being a councillor, how does being elected, make someone qualified? of course they don't, @ER113 plain for all to see told mrs swift she was down right wrong because mrs swift, rightfully said that they have no qualifications, and @ER113 said yes they do, they were elected. i'm sorry lynne but you like me should know that being elected does mean you hold any relevant qualification in the matter, once again though we find ourselves with a thread where the subject has no meaning nor purpose and we are talking politics.

Lynne
Lynne
24 Aug 2017 13:17

I think what it has to do with a playpark is that the town councillors voted that the town should have one. That was a political decision made by the majority of them.

With few exceptions all the town councillors successfully stood for election against other candidates . That is politics.

I am still confused as to what some people think other people should have in terms of qualifications in order to stand for election as a councillor. 

 

 

leatash
leatash
24 Aug 2017 13:56

You are right Lynne one needs no qualification to stand for political office and is that not the point that jo blogs can be elected and make a difference.

1 Agree
DJ
DJ
25 Aug 2017 18:52

Apart from the fact that this is now descending into another political game of tennis - it is a shame that yet again the focus seems to be on only providing facilities aimed at holidaymakers or day trippers.  Sure, they bring money in - but we have thousands of residents who live here all year round.  They live and work in and around Dawlish and they have money in their pockets too.  The difference is they don't all choose to spend it here because they don't always feel that local businesses and shops are aimed at them.

 

When the Dawlish Town Guide is produced it is worth reminding ourselves just how diverse some of the local businesses are - not just in the town centre itself but also on the industrial estate areas near Sainsbury's.  They are local employers and local self employed people, earning a living, doing a whole variety of jobs and providing a wide variety of services.  And they and their money are here 12 months of the year, not just on the odd day trip or 1 or 2 week holiday.  I can remember attending a local trade association meeting over 10 years ago and the whole evening was spent working out how to attract coach parties to the area - nothing about serving the people who live here all year round.  It is a blinkered view in my opinion.

 

Having a play park in town benefits people who live here all year round - as well as visitors if they choose to use it.  I said on the original post about it that I didn't feel the lawn was the right location for it and that it would be better to improve the play park we already have.  And I stand by that opinion.  But this nonsense about Dawlish being on its last legs doesn't help anyone - but it will take determination and effort to genuinely help Dawlish thrive and that starts with local people using local businesses and local traders using each other for business where they can.  The difference local people can make when they work together has been shown with Dawlish Celebrates Carnival, it is that determination that will help keep Dawlish as a great place to live in, work in and visit.

2 Agrees
leatash
leatash
25 Aug 2017 21:23

I at the moment require a new walking jacket 5000-6000 hydrostatic head, new walking boots, trainers. jeans, t shirts, socks for walking.  So these items are not available in Dawlish the jacket is available in Exeter for £74.99 but i have found the same jacket online from Northern Ireland for £31.12 i do all my shopping online the only money i spend in Dawlish once a month is for a haircut.  The boots i wanted saved £27 and i saved money on every item, most of my food shop is online delivered for a £1.00.   Now i remember when i did all my shopping in Dawlish we had mens outfitters i still have a suit there were four butchers, greengrocers, wet fish shop, Somerfield for your daily shopping, the Post Office in Brunswick Place was roomy and bright and Dawlish was a busy dynamic place to live in.  Now things have changed folk blame Sainsburys  i dont believe that, the internet is the killer and it will get worse why would anybody pay £74.99 for a jacket even if it was available in the Town when you can get it online for £31.12. Yesterday for the first time in ages i walked round town had a look in a few shops and did find a beautiful ornament i liked for £120 i took a photo on my phone and found the same item for £82 on Ebay but on Alibaba it's £11  now the shop selling it probably purchased it from Alibaba but so can i and thats the power of the internet.

1 Agree
majorp
majorp
25 Aug 2017 21:23

I remember when you could drive into Exeter quite comfortably in 25 mins in the early morning. now it would take (if you are lucky) an hour. The exodous from Dawlish early in the morning to go to work other than in Dawlish, is huge. DCC had vehicle checkers placed at various points along the A379 a few years back. I wonder what the increase in traffic flow would be now campared to then.

It must have been acceptable then to allow more housing to be built. I hazard a guess that it has gone through the roof now. I think there is more leaving Dawlish in the mornings than there are coming in. And the reverse at the end of the working day. Marsh Barton workers have staggered finishing times for many of their workers who are employed there. But from about 4 oclock until about 6, the traffic is virtually grid lock around that estate.

So I can't totally gree with DJ. It would be iteresting to know in percentage terms how many live and work in Dawlish, as opposed to those that come from outside of Dawlish to work.

majorp
majorp
25 Aug 2017 21:44

Exeter is grid locked again after a seriuos accident on the M5 between J30 and J31

Traffic in & around Exeter is extremely heavy due to a serious incident on the M5 which is currently closed. Avoid if at all possible

 

leatash
leatash
25 Aug 2017 22:43

There has been a post recently if i remember correctly giving figures on the numbers of folk commuting by car/ train from Dawlish to Exeter.

majorp
majorp
26 Aug 2017 09:55

And bus!

Lynne
Lynne
03 Sep 2017 18:40

to return to the topic of this thread. THE PLAY PARK ON THE LAWN

Click on this link http://www.dawlish.gov.uk/edit/uploads/2268_1056532311.pdf to read the minutes of the Finance & General Purposes committee meeting held in July when the 

topic of the play park and how it should be funded was discussed and decided upon.

Diana Mond
Diana Mond
03 Sep 2017 19:19

Thanks Lynne. 

DEEDOODLE
DEEDOODLE
04 Sep 2017 08:53

So with the basic essential services literally non existent the town council is able to find over a £120,000 for a second play park to take up nearly a third of The Lawn's current space. All this, in my opinion, based on a public consultation that only asked where on The Lawn it should be placed. The only place to say NO to this ridiculous scheme was in the comments section of the questions and those comments have never been made public! as far as I am aware.

How does the completion of only 680 forms, which included not just Dawlish residents, but the entire residents of Teignbridge as well, justify the desecration of The Lawn and unjustified spend of over £120,000?

It was touted that 77% of DAWLISH residents (see my entry on new play park - part 1 ..DEEDOODLE 10 sep 2016 14:12hr) had voted for this play park.......that in itself should have been a clue as to the way this project was being managed! how many forms filled in? how many residents in Dawlish?

Yes, to those biting at the keyboard as I post this, I do sound like a broken record, but to spoil The Lawn and make it the sole use for a minority of people for part of the year based on a dubiously one sided, so called pubilc consultation beggars belief.

1 Agree
Lynne
Lynne
04 Sep 2017 09:08

I must admit to quietly screaming to myself when I read this excerpt from the minutes: 

"There was a large response and 76.9% of Dawlish residents voted in favour of a Play Park on the Lawn."

Perhaps what should have been said was that 76.9% of those residents who voted did so in favour of a play park on the lawn.  Or even, given that it seems respondents were not necessarily residents of Dawlish, " 76.9% of those who took part in the consultation voted in favour of a play park on the lawn".

 

(But such descrepancies are not unusual. After all not everyone who was entitled to do so  voted in the Brexit referendum and yet we keep being told that the majority of people in the UK voted to leave.) 

 

4 Agrees
Diana Mond
Diana Mond
04 Sep 2017 15:39

The respondents were asked to declare whether they were Dawlish residents or non-Dawlish residents. So it should say "76.9% of respondents from Dawlish voted in favour...". 

Lynne
Lynne
04 Sep 2017 16:52

Hang on a minute! Hang on!

If there was no question on the consultation paper asking whether or not people thought there should be a playpark on the lawn then how can anyone claim that

76.9% thought it was a good idea?

Am I missing something here?

 

As I understand it, the questions were concerned with where on the lawn the playpark should be located not whether or not there should be a playpark somewhere on the lawn. See mine and Deedoodle's earlier comments re the questions.  The residents of Dawlish (and from any where else for that matter) were not asked if they wanted a playpark on the lawn! 

Diana Mond
Diana Mond
04 Sep 2017 17:31

My take on the matter is that the assumption being made is that if you voted "No" to all of the suggested locations, then that meant that you didn't want a play park on the lawn at all. 

Lynne
Lynne
04 Sep 2017 17:52

Well, my assumption was that a decision had already been made for there to be a playpark on the lawn and given that, we were then only asked where we thought it should be.

If there was still an option for no playpark at all on the lawn anywhere then there should have been a question explicitly asking: Do you want a playpark on the lawn? Yes or No?

That could then have been followed up with: if you said yes, which is your preferred location?  

 

For what it is worth  I am as sure as I can be that it had already been decided that a playpark on the lawn, subject to funding, was going to happen.  The consultation was a necessity that had to be gone through in order for those that wanted it to claim that the public backed the idea.

This whole thing reminds me of those planning consultation events. You know the type of thing - when a developer/landowner holds a public exhibition concerning a planning application for x number of houses. This is called a public consultation event. It should more correctly be called a public information event for the dye has already been cast.  

5 Agrees
Margaret Swift
Margaret Swift
04 Sep 2017 22:42

Perhaps we could organise our own consultation to find out what the people of Dawlish really want! I remember the first draft of questions for the 'slug' on the lawn, they were so loaded it took my breath away! Were the questions for the survey on the playpark put before the full council for approval? 

1 Agree
leatash
leatash
05 Sep 2017 00:40

The people of Dawlish dont give a monkeys its a handfull of folk who voted the strange thing is it was about the same numbers who voted for the Strand. Folk are to busy making ends meat working all hours they dont care about a play park its of no importance to the vast majority of folk in this town.  I estimate less than 20 people care passionately about the building of this play park. I made a point of asking 20 people all Dawlish residents today what they thought of a play park being built on the Lawns only one new what i was talking about does that not say it all.

Lynne
Lynne
05 Sep 2017 07:03

You are missing the point which is.......... 

that there was no explicit place on the consultation questionnaire for those who did not wish to have the play park built at all to be able to register that view. 

And even if it turned out to be only one person who felt that way - the question still needed to have been asked.

It wasn't.

And this is what the furore is all about.

 

And just because only one person of the twenty you asked yesterday knew about the playpark does not necessarily extrapolate out to only one in twenty of the total number of Dawlish residents knowing about the playpark. You could just as easily have asked different 20 individuals and found a different awareness.   

2 Agrees
Diana Mond
Diana Mond
05 Sep 2017 08:33

There is no furore.

All it is is that there are few people who are unhappy about this, and it's the same old people who are always unhappy about everything that's ever proposed to improve Dawlish. 

 

1 Agree
Lynne
Lynne
05 Sep 2017 08:40

And they should have been able to express their unhappiness about the proposal via an explicit question on the consultation questionnaire.

They weren't.

 

 

  

4 Agrees
DEEDOODLE
DEEDOODLE
05 Sep 2017 08:50

The public consultation was a sham and unsupported/unrealistic statistics promoted to allow momentum on this waste of money project.

What is required, is a public consultation that is run with a balanced content of questions that allow the resident's of Dawlish to say YES or NO to whether they wish to have an ADDITIONAL play park for Dawlish constructed in the heart of the town which will reduce the green space by up to 25 to 33ish%.

Until this takes place, in my opinion, the town council should not progress this project as the basis for spending £120,000 on this is flawed.

5 Agrees
Margaret Swift
Margaret Swift
05 Sep 2017 19:03

Well said Deedoodle, you sum it all up perfectly. Does Diana Mond actually live in Dawlish as they seem remarkably uninformed? And who are these old people? 

2 Agrees
leatash
leatash
05 Sep 2017 19:56

So how many folk are making a fuss 5,10,20, not many i bet.

1 Agree
Lynne
Lynne
06 Sep 2017 04:04

So if it is so few who are making the fuss then they would have posed no threat if they had been asked on the consultation questionnaire if they wished 

there to be a play park on the lawn or not.

 

2 Agrees
DEEDOODLE
DEEDOODLE
06 Sep 2017 09:12

@Diana Mond -'proposed to improve dawlish'....the track record. so far, is not an impressive one!

You miss the point - the 'public consultation' questions were one sided with only where the play park would be located on The Lawn. The only place to say NO to the play park on The Lawn was in the comments section and these seem to have not been made public.

This is unacceptable

 

4 Agrees
Margaret Swift
Margaret Swift
06 Sep 2017 09:32

OK, let's put in an FOI to the Town Clerk asking for the comments on the questionnaires. 

3 Agrees
DEEDOODLE
DEEDOODLE
06 Sep 2017 09:44

@Margaret Swift - you will more than likely get a comment back stating that it goes against some european law to give out the data.

1 Agree
Margaret Swift
Margaret Swift
07 Sep 2017 08:35

Well, it's worth a try! It's a while since I did an FOI, the last one was about the closure of the toilets at Dawlish Warren! 

2 Agrees
leatash
leatash
07 Sep 2017 09:12

I was speaking to a resident yesterday about the play park and Dawlish in general and a comment was made that said it all.  It went like this "i used to holiday here 20 years ago sit in the sunshine with my kids on the lawns  feed the ducks and enjoy the peace and quiet and i want it to stay like that i dont want anything to change" 

3 Agrees
Duckileaks
Duckileaks
07 Sep 2017 18:38

And people still do that Leatash.  And sometimes there's nothing wrong with wanting things to stay the same, change for the sake of change is pointless.  Preserve what is worth keeping - the open space, the green areas to play and picnic on.  Enhance what needs to be enhanced - the bandstand.

Playpark in the corner by the Ugly Duckling or where the Piazza is would be great but not taking up such a big chunk.  It will be a sad day if it happens

4 Agrees
leatash
leatash
07 Sep 2017 20:54

This town runs on visitors and less folk are visiting for lots of reasons traders tell me takings are down 20% to 25% and it's going to get worse if we dont give visitors what they want. The town has to be tailored to the visitor what they used to come for no longer applies.  21st century kids dont want to paddle and feed ducks they want to be entertaned, have great free wifi, discos,live music,etc etc.  Now i go away to areas that have great scenery and peace and quiet i ask the kids to come along there first question  "is there wifi" no i say "see you when you get back then dad" Now if folk want Dawlish to stay as is stuck in the last century thats ok with me why because thats what i fell for 30+ years ago but over time the town has slowly died and it will continue if something is not done to bring the famalies back.

1 Agree
Margaret Swift
Margaret Swift
07 Sep 2017 23:13

And those families are going to come to a watered down version of the playparks in Teignmouth and Paignton, who both have more space than we do? I don't think so! All the cafes I go in have free wifi and the town has been busy this year. Perhaps the reduction in takings are linked to the lack of the air show, many of the traders have always said they take more on that one day than in the rest of the season. Dartmouth doesn't have a playpark but it does have a beautiful bandstand with music playing every weekend in the summer months and deckchairs for people to sit on so they stay and enjoy the music. We need creative thinking not the same old same old! 

1 Agree
leatash
leatash
08 Sep 2017 08:30

There was no airshow last year and i am told takings are down on last year by 20% + and i live in the town centre and have noticed a reduction in visitors the campsites have not been full and some of the camps have been slashing prices trying to attract folk. Now visitors are like marmite you either hate them or love them but without them this town is finished.

DEEDOODLE
DEEDOODLE
08 Sep 2017 08:49

Takings are down, as Margaret Swift has said, because the air show used to bring a lot of revenue in for the town shops. When the yellow brick road, high street paving, was done the retailer's felt a large revenue hit from that and the consequence of less car parking by the shops for the future.

 The town has a permanent drinking club whose pride of young and old lounge around The Lawn drinking, shouting and bare knuckle when the mood suits them, even after the prohibition notices were installed. The fact these signs do nothing to attract repeat visitors to the town and the notices are not enforced is worse.

Dawlish needs to build on what makes it Dawlish and not try to compete with Dawlish Warren or Teignmouth. The best way to improve Dawlish is a balanced and well advertised survey that asks people for their input and not one a one sided set of loaded question that only have one outcome.

There have been surveys and questionaires in the past and results collated only to be ignored as a forward direction for Dawlish.

 

An interesting read:-

http://www.chilternsaonb.org/uploads/files/ConservationBoard/PlanningDevelopment/ACRE_note_Dawlish_lessons.pdf

http://darefordawlish.btck.co.uk/NeighbourhoodPlan

 

Further info:-

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/devon/8487274.stm

https://www.dawlish.com/thread/details/33944

http://www.dawlish.com/thread/details/34133

http://www.dawlish.gov.uk/neighbourhoodplan.php

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-18392014

Diana Mond
Diana Mond
08 Sep 2017 09:06

I wonder how many potential visitors are put off by all the negative posts on dawlish.com about a few drunks etc?

 

A replacement bandstand for the few not the many is, by the logic previously used, also "same old, same old". 

 

The area of the Lawn that a new playpark would take up is less than 10%, not the laughable 33% made up off the top of the head of the previous poster. 

 

I'm pleasantly surprised however not to have read any of the usual few complain about the new Safari Adventure Golf on Tucks Plot. 

 

 

DEEDOODLE
DEEDOODLE
08 Sep 2017 09:30

@Diana Mond - the issue of the drunks was serious enough to have the prohibition notices errected, even if they are not enforced.

The negative posts, as you call them, are people who feel strongly about Dawlish and need to voice their opinions as to the poor way Dawlish is being treated by its elected officials. Dawlish.com is a positive forum that enable ALL participants to air their feelings, hopefully without being belitted in the process!

The bandstand is a key part of The Lawn and a replacement is required as a focal point, but not replaced with something the town council deems is needed, 'a replacement bandstand for the few not the many' are your words and hold no substance.

 

 

 

2 Agrees
Diana Mond
Diana Mond
08 Sep 2017 10:07

When compared with a play park, a single purpose bandstand is most definitely for the few not the many. How often would it be used by local bands? And how many people will sit in deckchairs watching them? Where's the substance to your assertion please?

TheObserver
TheObserver
08 Sep 2017 10:19

@Diana Mond - it's not just the case of being a bandstand for bands. do you not feel that by taking away a large chunk of what is a concreate eyesore and replacing it with something in the form that newton abbot has would do justice in both the look and character of this seaside victorian town? we forget that the lawn boosts the home of many events throughout the year, and the bandstand is often used a podium to compere and display from. so it is a vital piece for dawlish, just not in it's current form. anyway let's make a thread about the bandstand. this is still meant to be about the dreaded play park proposal......oh and do the council really read anything here? should the council not have a discussion place where we could all speak and offer views? don't reply to that as that would been another off topic discussion. 

2 Agrees
webmaster
webmaster
08 Sep 2017 10:47
Comment This thread has been closed.