General Discussion

A questionable butterfly

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Gary Taylor
Gary Taylor
05 May 2017 16:01
burneside
burneside
05 May 2017 17:04

It looks like former Tory voters who had moved to UKIP have now returned to their original party, which spells bad news for Labour and the LibDems next month.

Gary Taylor
Gary Taylor
05 May 2017 17:48

But bad news also for Theresa May if she had ever thought she could pull off what this previous 'Reluctant Remainer' may well have quietly been hoping for - a soft-Brexit. 

 

 

burneside
burneside
05 May 2017 19:24

Any new influx of Tory MPs could be made up of soft-Brexiteers.  It works both ways.

Gary Taylor
Gary Taylor
05 May 2017 19:32

Perhaps. But we are obviously not talking about the incumbent Conservative candidate here, Burneside.

roberta
roberta
05 May 2017 19:48

I will throw in my lot with Theresa May at least we will get Brexit, not like the wet libdems and labour

3 Agrees
Gary Taylor
Gary Taylor
06 May 2017 09:16

You will get Brexit even if you vote for Labour. But if you want proper scrutiny of the negotiated terms (including calling a halt to the proceedings for a bad deal or a no deal via a referendum) then the choice is between the Lib Dems and the Greens - whichever is the most likely to succeed in the seat in question.

burneside
burneside
06 May 2017 11:13

You mean, in true EU style, to keep on voting until the "right" decision is made.  We've seen it all before with other countries but that won't happen this time.  The likes of you and Gina Miller are going to be disappointed.

2 Agrees
Gary Taylor
Gary Taylor
06 May 2017 12:25

With ominous storm clouds building up by the day Burneside, it won't be just those many people who want a socially and economically acceptable deal that will be disappointed.

Andrew
Andrew
06 May 2017 13:29

It is Westminster that needs to radically reform. Only then can we build a society that is socially, economically and environmentally progressive and fair.

Brexit is just a vehicle for the right-wing agenda. Trade unionists and miners were the targets in the 1980s, now the targets are immigrants, asylum seekers and EU bureaucrats.

But why not London bankers, rich CEOs and corrupt MPs? 

The right-wing media is a highly effective propaganda machine.

 

A Tory victory in the General Election, Brexit and greater Trumpist influence in UK politics might eventually bring more change than our tokenistic votes can deliver because Toryism and neoliberalism cannot be sustained - eventually they'll be rejected.

When people realize Westminster is corrupt and serves the elite - when the penny drops - probably when they personally feel exploited by the Tories.

Most people turn a blind eye to food banks, poverty and unemployment until it happens to them.

Although we'll probably have years of inequality and societal malaise. 

 

Scottish Independence would set in motion real change in England, perhaps an English parliament and parliaments for Wales and NI in a federal system. We'd need a new constitution and a new system.

Without PR England would look very blue, so would a generation or more of Toryism to finally lead to real change? i.e. when the oppressed in society fight back? 

With turn-out so low in elections and austerity so damaging, those disillusioned with politics are in the majority and potential powerful.

 

A vote for any party is a vote to maintain the current system. Who is campaigning for constitutional change, PR, an elected second chamber, free education and nationalization? What about a Republican movement? I'd vote for that.

 

Maybe instead of voting to prop up a dying system, we should abstain and let it implode under a far-right Tory Britain. It is about far more than just Brexit. But the establishment don't want us to question how this nation is fundamentally governed.

 

When politics works against the people it should represent, why should we vote just to maintain and validate a facade of democracy?

 

Did voting stop the rise of the right in Europe in the 1930s?

 

There'll be civil unrest under the Tories in post-Brexit  UK and a Trumpian, neoliberal-neofascist Western world. Is it time to reject our corrupt political system and organize popular ressitance to what is coming? Our politicians have failed us.

 

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