I thought originally there was talk of it being where the putting green is. Much safer in the lawn.
Well I am sure all those who enjoy the quiet and peaceful sport of bowling will be delighted..........not! We have been here before. Yes, Dawlish could do with a playpark so we can mimic Teignmouth and Paignton but is next to the bowling green the best place? What about the grossly underused Tuck's Plot with the 1960s boring golf which is hardly used? Wouldn't this be a much better place? The PP would be seen from the road by visitors in cars and on the train so it might just entice them to stop awhile in our lovely town.
I would tend to agree with MS that next to the bowling green is inappropriate, the calm and tranquility of bowls and the play and excitement of our children perhaps not the best neighbours. So childrens play area on the boring golf area but could I suggest an outdoor sturdy adult excercise area between the stand and the bowling green instead. I have seen these now in many countries whilst on holiday and see many people using them enthusistically whether as part of their exercise routine or as part of physio therapy for rehabilitation or movement in older years. As we have an ever increasing elderly population I'm sure it would be beneficial and no doubt some of those participating in the bowls may wish to use between games, (not saying they need it you know what I mean!)
I honestly do not understand why some are just so keen to swallow up our lawn area. What is wrong with having a nice green open space for families to enjoy? Almost every day this week there have been dads and mums sitting in that area enjoying quiet time with their children or enjoying a kick around with a ball. Lovely to see. Teignmouth and Paignton have much more green space than we do so can afford to give some of it over to a play area and, in Teignmouth, crazy golf, but we do not have the same expanse so why crowd it out with play areas and adult exercise areas? Develop Tuck's Plot fit for the 21st centuary and enhance the town.
I don't think Tuck's Plot is a good place for a play park, it's boxed in by busy roads, but I also don't see why the Lawn should host it. Far from Dawlish 'crying out' for one, there's already one by the hospital, no more than four minutes away, plus a new one by Newlands. Walk a bit further, it's good exercise.
We need do we not attractions for visiting families when the tide is in or a grey day a playpark would be a great idea it may keep the visitors with kids in town and maybe spend some cash. Dawlish is as it is because folk are backward thinking we still have the old bandstand what a eyesore that is and all because folk dont want change wake up people this is the 21st century and visitors want more than sand and sticky rock.
The Play Park is an agenda item at tonight's Dawlish Town Council meeting. I retain an open mind on the subject and will listen with interest to the debate, however my thoughts surrounding the subject going into the meeting are as follows:
Play Park? If one is wanted by a majority of Dawlish residents and could be funded and well maintained, then yes.
But on the Lawn? No. My current view is that viable alternative locations probably exist elsewhere. The Lawn is a vital piece of open green space in our town centre and is a major attraction in its own right.
And the Bandstand? Replacement urgently needed. A nice old fashion traditional wrought iron affair would be just the job. Bring on the bands!
Use the perfectly good play park opposite the Manor House. Why should everyone else suffer from screaming kids/parents on the Lawn. It's bad enough with the Dawlish drinking club at the happy hut.
The Lawn is a finite space, How much Lawn would be left if the TERMITE (replacement for bandstand area) had been constructed plus this play park.
Leave The Lawn alone, once it's gone, it's gone. It seems so much of the Victorian heritage is being erased from Dawlish.
I really have no confidence in the town council based on prior mad hatter ideas!
@Gary Taylor, i tend to agree with you, for a change, on the idea of an old style traditional bandstand to replace the bunker.
As someone suggested in todays Dawlish Gazette a good place would be where The Piazza is also to demolish the huts and part of the flower beds.
The Piazza was only constructed in 2009 and was to be used by different events to give the Lawn a rest bite over the winter months. Again, use the play area opposite the Manor House. The walk will do the parents and kids some good.
Tonight's Dawlish Town Council agenda below:
Item 12 refers to the Play Park.
Please note: The meeting is to start at 6.30pm to include a presentation by Devon County Council on proposals for the extension of the new cycle route into Dawlish town centre.
Well said Gary 😊 Speak up tonight please.
Well said Purrrrrfect.
Thank you Margaret. Perhaps we will see you there?
Sadly not Gary, my hubby although home from hospital needs looking after. Good luck though in the meeting.
I would be interested to hear the opinions of those that use the lawn balls to the possibilty of the new play area being next to the bowling green. Anyone who knows a person who partakes in the lawn bowls at Dawlish ask them if they would like to add their comments on this post.
Its going to Public Consultation so surely thats where people put their comments
Suggest people click on this link and read the agenda.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1567776296855854/?hc_location=ufi If you click on this link you will find a lot of opposition
@roberta - checked out the facebook link, mandy bach posted a comment on the page stating that there is a covenance on the lawn which does not allow any building on the area. does anyone know about this?
She also states this is why the bandstand was never redeveloped
This was mentioned when they wanted to build the monstrous armadillo on the lawn. Some research was done but I don't know if anyone actually found anything out. I will email a couple of people and post here if I find anything out.
Can anyone throw any light on what is going on please.
That link that I posted above shows the agenda for the (ad hoc?) full council meeting being
held this coming week.
Why are items that I understand were agreed at the previous full council meeting now up for being rescinded?
park to be provided on The Lawn subject to public consultation
@Lynne, not been a councillor for over a year now so my memory might be a bit iffy but i thought any decision made in any council or committee meeting had to be 'called in' within 10 days of the decision being made if there was to be a challenge to the decision. i have not come across 'to rescind a resolution' before.
@Lynne, thanks for the link, i think as many of us as poosible need to attend that meeting as, on the surface, it all seems a bit odd as there is no mention of a 'call in' on a decision made at the previous meeting. i will do my best to be there.
The source I emailed tells me there is no covenant on the lawn area.
on 13TH Aug. on another thread which had wandered onto the subject of the playpark Gary Taylor posted
this (but my emphasis in red bold):
And below a couple of extracts from the DTC Town Centre Masterplan document:
Para 1.1 Background:
"The plan contains a long list of proposed projects, including priority action to:
. improve the Lawn, Manor Gardens and other public and open spaces
. increase turnover, footfall and employment by making the Strand safer and more attractive to visitors..."
Para 10.5 The Lawn:
"The Lawn will return to its original character as a generously proportioned, tranquil and elegant green space in the heart of Dawlish. By removing visual clutter these proposals will reinforce the simple, formal character of the Lawn, and restore the integrity of the spatial set-piece formed by the Strand, Brunswick Place and gardens..."
So my question is: if the aim is to return the lawn to being a tranquil and elegant green space by removing visual clutter how
will having a playpark sited there achieve that?
@Lynne - i belive they erretced all those stainless steels signposts around the lawn after this document was originally posted. i would have thought that those were visual clutter. as to the play park on the lawn, if parents are to lazy to walk a couple of hundred yards to the current playpark. they certainly should not be rewarded with another play park on the lawn to reward them for their laziness and take away the current tranquily that the lawn presently has for the rest of us.
So..........let's just say, for the sake of argument, that a play park on the lawn was a non starter but that there was still a demand
for a playpark in the centre of the town - somewhere.
I have heard the site of Tuck's Plot mentioned by others.
Now here's the thing. We all know that it is where there is a crazy golf amenity. But is it cost effective? Might the site be used for other purposes?
I raise this issue as I know that a Freedom of Information request was submitted to TDC asking about the annual revenue this facility generates, how much it costs TDC to run etc. In other words is the facility cost effective?
TDC refused to provide such information on the grounds that it might be commercially prejudicial. Now, I might accept that argument if the crazy golf facility had been tendered out. However, from what I can gather it is run by TDC itself and if that is true then another question we might ask is why can we not know how much it costs to run/how much revenue it generates?. After all if it is being run by TDC then we, the taxpayers of Teignbridge, are paying for it.
Would be interested to know what others know/think about the Tuck's Plot issue (both as a location for a playground and also why TDC are being so coy about the crazy golf facility financial situation.)
LN, the same 2008 report also states that the land between the unsightly bandstand and the bowling green is "something of a dead space".
In my opinion, the proposed play park would bring it to live. And with it retain and gain business within the town. To compare the little playground at the manor with the fun play park in Teignmouth is frankly like comparing chalk and cheese. Hopefully the opinions of the wider Dawlish public (of all ages) will be considered when the decision is made.
MV - yes I know what the report says about the space between the bandstand and the bowling green. But the report goes further by suggesting that the present bandstand be knocked down and a replacement be sited further up towards the bowling green which would include a cafe.
I cannot find anywhere in that report any suggestion of a children's playground being sited on the lawn.
What the report does say about the lawn is this:
"The Lawn will be a quiet zone within the sequence of spaces
in the heart of the town, flanked by more active areas around
the café and the market place. But the beauty and elegance
of this “town garden” will be a big attraction for visitors and
locals, and by making the Lawn a more accessible space our
proposals will encourage pedestrian traffic. At Carnival time
and other seasons, the management regime for the Lawn
should focus on relatively low impact activities which will
not compromise the quality and ambience of the space. "
The conclusions of the Town Centre Masterplan are clear, Morty - that the whole of The Lawn should be retained.
In any case the space in question has considerably livened up over the course of this summer, and especially during our peak season. Firstly as the only available leisure/sport/amenity space during the time the fair was in town and now as a site for the marquee for the carnival.
If the town wants to continue putting on and growing such events in the future to help promote tourism and benefit trade, the financial implications for any loss of area of The Lawn will need to be carefully considered. On this matter the jury are still out.
LN, I know what the report says about it being a "quiet zone". 8 years on, I personally believe that we need to look at the success of the Teignmouth model, and create a play park to help continue stopping Dawlish from becoming a dead zone. Sadly the only opinions that are being heard are those of the old aged residents (I don't mean you LN btw!).
MV - as it happens I am totally open minded about all this.
I am merely pointing out what the S106 agreement says.
How do you come to that conclusion Mrs C, are you privy to representations made to the Council?
So.........we need to copy Teignmouth and Paignton. Why? Is aspiring to copy others aspirational? No! We need to be creative and provide something others don't offer because offering the same old same old on a reduced scale will NOT pull the punters from those two towns.
The last time something aspirational was attempted for the lawn, it was shouted down by the same people trying to shout down the play park. Therefore, in my opinion, it's better to follow the lead of a successful model. I've never mentioned attracting people from Paignton. It would be good for local businesses and residents if children didn't have to be taken to Teignmouth to spend time at a well-designed, well-maintained and FUN play park, by having the same here.
You are quite right, Margaret, we should strive to maintain and improve what is best about Dawlish rather than ape Teignmouth and Paignton. In that way we can attract people here from further afield and grow the size of the tourist cake - rather than merely pinch back a slice from a neighbour.
The Town Centre Masterplan was written in 2008 and highlights the challenges to be faced from out-of-town retail and falling tourism. Little has changed since then - and money still needs to be spent to turn around areas and attractions which are underperforming or underdeveloped. Let's look at these before we consider damaging for ever one of our town's most important amenities.
Spending millions on infrastructure to bring Dawlish up to par with other successful tourist locations to attract the tourist, but unable to get funds to spend on essential services - what a croc. Clean the streets and fix all the basics first. There's no point in building fancy things on a poor foundation.
Those in charge seem to like wasting millions on non essentials, but find it hard to get on and do the core responsibilities of their office.
The Sainsbury's development S106 money that has been set aside can only be used (as above) for "projects aimed at sustaining the vitality and viability of Dawlish town centre and including works to meet objectives contained in the Town Centre Masterplan dated April 2008 as published by the Dawlish Community Trust". This definition would not preclude projects outside of the 'heart' of the town centre, nor (it could be argued) outside of the town centre itself. There is a point in time by which the money should be spent (circa 2021, I believe) with any remaining funds returned to the developer (with interest) beyond that.
But you're right, BEE9, we are being let down on the simple things like regular maintenance of verges which have been the subject of a 'pass-the-parcel' routine between Devon County Council, Teignbridge District Council and Dawlish Town Council since 2015, due to Government cuts. Needless to say, the extra money to be found for such services will ultimately end up coming from you and I.
For info - click on the link below to read the minutes of the town council's Civic Amenities Committee meeting held in June when the issue of the playpark was on the agenda.
Public participation and item 4 are the relevant bits to read.
To those against the play park, may I ask what you think the S106 money should be spent on instead? That's not a loaded question, but a genuine request for constructive ideas. Thank you.
If they are going to put the play park on the lawn, maybe they should put it where the bowling green is and then create a new bowling green where the play park is in the manor grounds! Lovely setting and at least the players would get peace and quiet. As for parking and toilet facilities it is not much further than where they are now.
@Barbarawils68 - and see how quickly it gets vandalised, use the play park that already exists..lazy parents.
I am not against the concept of a single Play Park in Dawlish, Morty (although a split permutation that would allow smaller children needing supervision to play separately from older more robust children on the loose, would seem preferrable) - but if we are talking about investment in the heart of the town centre then a new traditional-styled bandstand that would not have its back turned on the upper lawn area would seem a very good start. The Play Park proposal appears to have tapped a retro theme to good effect - so why not go back to 'the good old days' (but wired for modern technology) for a new bandstand?
There is less chance of a play park being vandalised if it can be seen from multiple houses, see the below:
4. Choose a location with informal oversight The degree to which the play area needs to be overlooked will depend on the individual site but in general play provision is best placed close to other facilities where there are usually people about. Two key criteria for locating successful play spaces are that children want to ‘see and be seen’ and ‘be where it’s at’ (Wheway and Millward, 1997).
5. Locate play spaces near other facilities Locating play spaces beside community facilities, such as libraries, adds value to these facilities and can increase usage of the play space. In larger parks or open spaces, it can be helpful to locate play spaces close to cafés or toilets, which help bring people into the park and make it feel safer and more sociable.
Can't get my head around the Council minutes saying families 'travelled to use the play park in Teignmouth'. So people lug their kids to Teignmouth just to use the park because Dawlish doesn't have one? I doubt that very much.
You can doubt it all you want, but I guarantee that it will be true that people will travel to Teignmouth for the play park. Just as I used to travel with a group of Mums to Decoy for our children to play at the park there before the Teignmouth play park was upgraded. My children were just about too old for it by the time they finished it. The Teignmouth play park works really well and is very popular. Does that mean an identical one should be built on the Lawn in Dawlish? Well, no it doesn't. Is Tucks Plot the right Location? Again, I'd say no. I wouldn't have wanted to use a play park essentially built on an oversized roundabout with vehicles travelling in close proximity on all sides and if the traffic is slow, them breathing in all the resulting fumes the vehicles would give off. As there already is a good play park in Dawlish, why not spend some of the money to make it even better, put good signs up to point the way for those unfamiliar with the town, and leave the Lawn for other activities? Just my thoughts anyway.
The Play Park Public Consultation results are finalised and are being presented to the Council today at the Manor 7pm.
Well let's hope the current councillors don't make a mess of Dawlish as they did with Dawlish Warren in 2001 when they tore down the individual shops and replaced them with the monstrosity we see there today. They stripped Dawlish Warren of its character to create a monster. It has taken the hard work of the traders in the Warren to bring back some of that character but that has taken years to achieve.
I see that the play park has been given the initial first rubber stamp.
Not surprised, the questionaire was loaded towards having the park on The Lawn.
Not one question asked ....do you want a play park on The Lawn?
Another waste of money to duplicate a facility that already exists in the local area.
Although no money for essential services, I know, that comes out of another purse, but filled by the same tax payer's
Has anyone considered using a land train, a visitor attraction
that is used in Torquay ( Ist Jan - 31st Dec )
This could be used not only as an added attraction for dawlish
that I am certain visitors (and locals) would enjoy, especially if
there was a drop off point at the Manor Play Park & lawns.
Doing this, if it was cost effective, would save disrupting our
lovely lawn, a valuable and much enjoyed central Dawlish
For info on the Torquay model please ring 07980269352
On the Eyes Of Dawlish facebook page they had the following from Teignmouth and Dawlish Community Interest Company:-
How is 77% of Dawlish residents equated from a questionaire that only had a total, of Dawlish and Teignbdrige residents, of 680 completed forms. The 2001 census by the goverment gives a figure of over 11,000 residents just for Dawlish.
Even if all the 680 forms had been completed by DAWLISH RESIDENTS and all 680 forms were for the park, which they weren't, That would calculate to 680/11000*100= 6.18%. A far cry from the BOLD and CAPITAL Banner of 77% of Dawlish residents voted in favour of a play park on The Lawn.
What a croc, and on top of that the questionnaire did not ask if ANYONE DID NOT want a play park on The Lawn, just where and how big.
I find this questionnaire to be in questionable doubt as to its validity based on the above.
Dos anyone know where all the comments can be viewed that were part of this socalled questionanaire?
@Matt, i suggested this when i was a councillor and was laughed out of the chamber!! so glad someone else thinks it's a good idea. i suggested it as a transport solution for coach parties from sandy lane into town and back and maybe also the warren.
You make really valid points DEEDOODLE. When the first questionnaire for the terrible slug on the lawn was presented to council in 2014 those questions too were so biased it took your breath away. Fortunately there were enough bright sparks on the council at the time to realise what a croc they were and the questions were rewritten in order to present residents with a fair representation of options, and we all know the outcome of that!! The questionnaire for the playpark needs to be challenged, particularly as the questions were agreed at an additional meeting of the council, which might not have been legal.
680 completed questionnaires is laughable and I should be astonished the council have agreed to progress this issue based on so few responses, but I'm not!
Matt - Permission for a land train has been sought from individuals in the recent past and permission has been refused as has permission for various attractions on the beach. Now come on people we had a decision on remodelling the Strand with as many votes its just how it is at the end of the day most people dont give a monkeys as long as it doesnt effect them. I didnt even know about the questionnaire but would have voted yes.
@leatash, your last sentence says it all! at least when there was a proposal to build the slug on the lawn there was a full and open consultation with presentations in various places across the whole parish. people did know about the proposals and far many more than 680 completed questionnaires and voted not to build on the lawn.
Why are the swings and seesaw in the water?
Looks great i can see it working well and attracting families to the lawn area.
I haven't really taken any notice to be honest of this white elephant that's planned. In my opinion what a waste of wonderful open space. To see families having picnics with their children and playing ball on the grassy area. Yes, it may be used during a couple of months during summer but for the most part the cost will outweigh it's use. Once it's put in place it will be vandalised I have no doubt, as someone has already posted. Dawlish has a unique area that many towns would be envious of. Would it bring in more money I doubt that very much. But It would seem that it looks like it's going to happen...... What a shame.
It will attract thousands of people and they will all be using the lovely new cycle path from the Warren to get here.
@Carer - (13 sep 2016 06:43hrs) i take it your comment is one of sarcasm!
I do not believe it is in the best interest of Dawlish, the local people or visitors to take up a sizeable portion of The Lawn for the exclusive use of those who have small children. As Brooklyn Bridge has rightly said the usage would be small, compared to its current configuration as a LAWN. Use the play park a short walk away.
If this white elephant ever gets built, what else will be built on The Lawn - a creche centre! maybe a building that looks like a termite or a massive ferris wheel, why not all three?
Sarcastic, indeed I am.
Its about time the local council got its head on straight and started sorting out the underlying failings of Dawlish's infrastructure. Than burying its head in the sand with these non essential, unrealistic projects that cost a small fortune of taxpayer's money.
Why not have better and clear signage to the current play park at the manor and also upgrade it? The manor is probably never found by visitors. If you could put in a place to sell teas and coffees and snacks too then maybe visitors would use it and would be a lovely place to sit for the afternoon in the summer.
I wonder how many Dawlish residents actually use the lawn area ??. I have lived around the lawns for the past 31 years and have probably used the lawn area 2 or 3 times and by that i mean i have sat on the grass for no more than 10 minutes and i bet i am not alone.
Why not just dig the whole of the Lawn up and have allotments and use the wonderful bandstand as shed for tools and while they are at it take down all the trees and put black iron railings around the whole lot, of course I'm joking. Who is going to take care of this play ground, who is going to pick up all the rubbish that would be left, we have enough of a litter problem in this town as it is. And while we are at it we would need an ambulance on stand by. And don't forget the legal signage stating using this area is at your own risk. Then of course the nightly vandals will be swinging around leaving glass bottles broken or otherwise.
Now that would attract me to the lawns, an allotment of my own, what a great idea it never crossed my mind, it would certainly work for me. The added benefits of keeping us oldies fit and healthy with all that digging and we could produce enough veg to feed Dawlish. And of course, the allotment keepers would have the added benefit of eating healthy fresh veg, saving the NHS money and making appointments at the Dr surgery a lot easier... and I am being serious!
Have a section of The Lawn fenced off with a purpose built habitat so the visitors to Dawlish can view the Dawlish drinking club in its natural environment. With the proper fencing it would make it safe for all ages to view this rather unique and interesting species whilst it goes about its daily activities, just a thought. Build it and they will come......
Are land trains expensive to purchase, Torquay has there train currently up for sale at £90,000,
quite a lot of money,- but I do know of one going up for auction within the next 4 weeks at a
suggested guide price of £23,000 - £25,000 - comments anyone ?
I think it would be an excellent idea, keep and enhance the current play area at the Manor. Get the holiday parks to purchase/sponsor/donate a land train as I'm sure if it were routed to use the coast road from the Warren then a lot of their holiday makers would use it, re-investing in the communities. They can donate individually if they can't work together, along with any other contributors, I'm sure it could be coordinated for them to save any squabbles!
I agree. I think a land train between Dawlish Warren and Dawlish, calling in at Sandy Lane car park to pick up and drop off coach drivers, would be a popular attraction and be well used. We just need someone on the town council brave enough to lead on this project and bring it to fruition. The playpark will be a desolate eyesore for at least half of the year.
After hearing a 9/10 year old youngsters foul mouthed bullying yesterday as they left one of our schools, I have grave concerns regarding the spoiling of our peaceful, brook area. Yes he's someone locals little darling, but all he was gearing up for was joining the Happy hut brigade. I just can't bear to think of the screaming noise and the language eminating from such a park. Talking to colleagues from Exeter, they purposely choose to come to Dawlish for an afternoon because of the peace and tranquility, if they wanted noise etc then they'd go to Teignmouth. Lets try and please everyone, keep the tranquility and enhance the manor play area with better access
On a recent visit to Dawlish, it was great to see how well the well-maintained patch of grass at the top end of the lawn (between the bandstand and the bowling green) was being used. Three different groups of children of varying age groups were having fun playing ball games, a number of families were having a picnic and a group of creative arts types were decorating a large canvas. It was a wonderful vibrant scene. Young were mixing with old, locals were mixing with tourists. With the main section of the lawn so often taken up with fairground rides or other event stalls during school holidays, I couldn't help thinking it would be folly to dig up such a pleasant piece of the Lawn to make way for climbing frames and other apparatus. Quite frankly, it's best left just the way it is!
What's happening with this, is it still going ahead? I do think the manor park should be highlighted more for tourists, it's a great play park for younger kids.
Yes, I agree. That would be the place to invest in a new facility for young children. Dawlish deserves a top class play area for young kids, just not on the Lawn and not at the expense of an area that's already much-loved and well-used
Let's hope our current councillors read this and take heed! The whole of the lawn area is so well used by families and individuals of all ages, why would we want to emulate other towns who have not got what we have? The lawn is precious but it's exactly that preciousness that some councillors object to and want to destroy.