General Discussion
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10569768/Tens-of-thousands-of-big-families-on-benefits.html
Tax straight out of our pockets into theirs. We should all go on strike until we can choose what our tax money goes on.
@Paul. wishful thinking that. but what would you want your taxes to go on. i`m unemployed at the moment but i just want to work. i havn`t got any children.
I just don't want money spent on people that want to be on the dole. They just keep having kids to get more dole, must be stopped.
Welfare includes Child Benefit and Working Tax Credits, some of these families might be working, Paul you really are a true blue nosed a==hole
Yeah but I'm thinking, why am I working full time with a long commute to be taxed so much, when there are so many people receiving benefits who don't want to work. Just isn't right.
IDS hasn't gone anyway near far enough to sort this utter p!ss take out.
I have read the article in the paper. Nobody is suggesting going Chinese of a limit to two children, you can have a many as you wish but only get child benefits for TWO and two only. Many parents have kids just for the sake of getting child benefits. It is a cash cow to some.
I agree with what Paul says and a lot of families maybe getting a lot more than Paul earns.
Yes BUT Paul staes living on the dole, he has no proof that all these families are not working. Yes I work and maybe some people are better off than me or mine, working and claiming top ups, but that is a fault of the system. Bring in the living working wage and then maybe these top ups wont be required
Looking at the article it appears that two-thirds of the families in question are working, but in part-time jobs, and receiving top-ups via income support. About a fifth are looking for work and so receive job-seekers allowance, and about a quarter are receiving disability benefits, so presumably have no or limited capacity for work. There is absolutely no evidence that these families are deliberately having children in order to milk the State for benefits. We are a welfare state and should be proud of being a caring society prepared to support those most in need when needed whether that's through disability, through unemployment because of recessionary pressures or through falling on difficult times for other reasons. And yes I agree with Roberta - bring in a living working wage.
Paul@ You could be moments away from being on benefits I know worked all my life never claimed a penny a stroke finished all that. The other point what is a living wage that's easy take a couple both working and receiving HB tax credits child allowance etc the total is the minimum wage,a living wage would be higher than that total. We need to get rid of zero hours contracts part time working up the minimum wage and tax the banks till they squeak at the end of the day they caused this WORLD wide mess.
I'm all for helping people, I just don't like people that are capable of work but want to be on the dole. I know many people like this, so no need anyone saying these people don't exist.
So how much is the minimum living wage? £20K, £30K?
As long as people demand three or four cars per family, top of the range media, pay crazy money on mobile contracts, eat out most days of the week and dont cook at home, holiday so much ...of course they need a big income.
I agree with what Paul says and not exactly impressed with likes of Roberta and the foul langauge. Another reason why discussion boards could easily come to a sudden end because people just simply cant be nice anymore.
Until the government 'that being whatever puppet party is in power at the time' mans up and takes responsibility for the proper management of the welfare state, nothing will change.
There needs to be a massive structural and procedural change to filter out those who are deserving and those that are not. Not a task I would look forward to, but in the long game more people in genuine need of this benefit system could be helped. Rather than those that create a situation for themselves so they may qualify.
If you want a change then you need to hound both your local councils and mp's to get of their overpaid arse's and represent their constituents. A strange concept for most mp's and councillors to probably get their head around!
@wondering i bleeped out the word which lets be fair we all have, but old fart can say it no recrimination there, everybody seems to have a different opinion of profanity. A Tory MP stated yesterday that its time they started helping the workers on minimum wage who full time only earn £12,500 per year and not millionaires, now theres a Tory I could like http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/robert-halfon/uk-minimum-wage_b_4593608.html?utm_hp_ref=uk-politics
Roberta@ And there lies the problem according to Paul@ the person earning 12,500 will probably be claiming tax credits FB etc and rightly so the only answer is to pay a living wage so working folk don't have the embarrassment of claiming benefits. My father always told me that employers only paid a third of what you are really worth so Paul there is your answer the living wage should be three times the minimum wage.
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/nash-riggins/welfare-reform_b_4580562.html?utm_hp_ref=uk-politics heres another one leatash
Minimum wage is currently (2013) £6.31 an hour, a week (40 hrs) is £252.40 or a salary of £13125.
Which you could say isn't very good, but you could get a job that pays more.
Thats gross Paul after Tax and NI it would be about £12500. You can earn £9440 before tax and £5668 before NI
If the minimum wage is increased surely everything will go up to compensate/pay the wage bill and therefore you're back where you started.
Makes more sense to forget about the minimum wage and get a well paid job.
and pray tell me my child how does one find one like that if you are a manual worker. All business pay minimum wage ( no alternative) do you honestly think people deliberately look for minimum wage?, if you have no qualifications you stand no chance oh that is of course if you can find a job in the first place. I know people who are crying out for a job its not that easy Paul you do like pulling ones strings dont you
OK that could be ticky. Perhaps people in the situation you describe could go to evening classes to gain some more qualifications and then apply for jobs which pay a bit higher. However I suppose some bosses/companies could afford to pay more but they would rather keep more for themselves.
University Graduats cant find suitable jobs with all their qualifications and usually end up doing minimum wage jobs. Some jobs offer you NVQ Training but you still only get minimum wage, there is no answer to this
https://jobsearch.direct.gov.uk/JobSearch/PowerSearch.aspx?rad=20&rad_units=miles&pp=25&sort=rv.dt.di&vw=b&re=134&setype=2&tjt=all&where=ex7 check these jobs out Paul
Going back to the original thread. I would only give benefits to the first two children. If you choose to have more you must provide for them.
What Paul says on wages makes sense.
Say for example everyone working in a shop gets three times minimum wage as suggested, that would be £18 an hour! ...what on earth would your shop cost? ..So my question is .. would you be happy to pay more for your food in the knowledge people are earning a higher wage? You cant have ya cake and eat it.
I am sure Mr Ed and Labour will sort this all out and give everyone exactly what they want ...thats the eway to do it! ..wont be long now lol. Just dont have ambitions on starting a business and employing staff not a good idea,
part of the problem that is often overlooked is that if you raise the minimum wage you actually make people worse off in the short term, because for every £1 they get as a pay rise they lose 65p in top up benefits, and after you take tax and NI off the wages too then the pay increase because pretty meaningless. A lot of people on low wages now also can take advantage of free eye tests, free dental work and check ups and free prescriptions. If their benefits go down then they won't be eligible for those add ons either, or extra help with childcare and so they have to pay out of what is left of their pay rise for these extra things. So it is a disincentive to wanting to earn nearer the living wage rather than the minimum wage and it gives businesses the excuse not to offer to pay workers more than the minimum. Since Working Tax Credit, Child Tax Credit, Working Families Benefit etc etc in its many forms were brought in by Tony Blair and Gordon Brown it became easy for low paid jobs to thrive because everyone knew that the Govt (ie taxpayers) would take up the slack. A viscious circle that needs to be broken, but expect it to be a painful experience while it happens. IDS has started going in the right direction by limiting to an upper limit what people can receive, but it needs to go further. At the moment those at the bottom of the wage scale who receive top up benefits pay the HIGHEST rate of tax when their wages go up and their benefits go down, but having the taxpayer continuously subsidising jobs like this can't continue otherwise the UK really will go bankrupt.
Not sure if this belongs on this thread or not - but couldn't think of anywhere else to put it.
A country cannot survive without wealth creators and there is nothing stopping anyone becoming an entrepreneur and making their way up the ladder to financial security and becoming a wealth creator for others. But in this country we really do love to hate people once they become successful don't we? How on earth are we supposed to teach our children to have aspirations for the future when all they hear around them in people having a go at anyone who has managed to achieve their aspirations. That is a very sad reflection on society and probably a massive contributor to certain sections of society pretty much giving up on the desire to aspire. And yet what about the 50p man shown on Benefits Street? That does at least prove that no matter who you are and what has happened to you, you can still aim to do better for yourself. What we need is more people like him instead of people constantly being put down for their achievements.
And no, before I can ranted at by the usual suspects, I don't believe that anyone should get away with serious tax fraud or cheating the system in a big way, but as the saying goes "let him who is without sin cast the first stone". Anyone really and truly that squeaky clean on here??
As I see it Parasite Street's point is about serious tax fraud and cheating the system in a big way. I don't see it as having a go at entrepreneurial activity per se. As far as I am concerned It's about time some metaphorical stones got thrown the way of big time tax fraudsters and cheaters.
And by the way - I am all for aspiration. But we are not all gifted with entrepreneurial initiative anymore than we all gifted as artists, musicians, mechanics, writers etc.etc etc
@Lynne - parasite street - thanks for the info. only prob is these parasites are to chummy with the parasites in power to ever be slapped down.
DJ... that is a brilliant post. People hate people who do well...yet they want someone to create jobs!
End of the day..... its simply envy.