General Discussion

A questionable butterfly

People

Lostit
Avawatson549
Diana Mond
deadpan
applecaremac
atttechcare
aoldesktopgolds
adobecustomercare
aolmailservice
Niajax800
Lynne
Lynne
20 Jan 2018 08:09

I have just done a search using the above wording. If you wish to read on this subject you could do the same search,

Normally I would post all the links on here (as I have done frequenty in the past on other threads). But my computer is 'playing up' and won't let me do that

at the moment. 

      

Lynne
Lynne
21 Jan 2018 07:30

As there are quite a few hyperlinks to be found by way of doing a search using the words UK Farming Industry post Brexit I wonder if some kind soul would mind posting them on this thread. The links argue both pro and con .      

majorp
majorp
21 Jan 2018 11:27

I am watching Lynne to see who will do it first.

Diana Mond
Diana Mond
21 Jan 2018 13:59

What issue are you having Lynne? Is it the copying element or the pasting?

Lynne
Lynne
23 Jan 2018 17:43

So, when I did a search using the words UK Farming Industry post Brexit this is what came up:

 

UK farmers risk seeing incomes halve after Brexit - Financial Times

 
https://www.ft.com/content/cd9323b8-ad0e-11e7-beba-5521c713abf4
9 Oct 2017 - Agricultural incomes could halve after Brexit unless the UK strikes a free-trade agreement with the EU, according to a new report that urges farmers to prepare for Britain’s departure from the bloc by boosting their productivity. ... The AHDB, which is funded by a levy on farmers ...

[PDF]how farming can deliver for the country post-brexit - NFU Online

 
https://www.nfuonline.com/assets/80290
  1.  
  2.  
Farming is Britain's backbone. It matters to everyone. Leaving the EU creates a defining opportunity for British farming. For too long the success of our sector has been determined not in Britain, but in Brussels. More than any other sector farming is affected by Brexit. If Government can make British farming a success post-.

Brexit could destroy the UK's food and farming industry – or be the ...

 
https://www.theguardian.com/.../brexit-watershed-farming-food-industry-michael-gove
26 Jun 2017 - Leaving the EU is a chance to reform the biggest sector of Britain's economy. ... Brexit could destroy the UK's food and farming industry – or be the making of it .... Instead, thanks to a fall in sterling post-Brexit, rising food prices, increasing inflation and labour shortages are likely to make things worse.

[PDF]UK agricultural policy post-Brexit - Owen Paterson MP

 
https://www.owenpaterson.org/.../UK%202020%20Agricultural%20Policy%20Post-Br...
  1.  
3/ UK Agricultural Policy Post-Brexit. Introduction. The agricultural sector stands to be among the major beneficiaries of United Kingdom's decision to leave the European Union. Leaving the European Union and its Customs Union is a precondition for the UK to become a leader in global free trade, boosting our exports and ...

Post-Brexit farming funding set out by Michael Gove - BBC News

 
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42559845
  1.  
4 Jan 2018 - Mr Gove's speech comes as the APPGA report says post-Brexit trade deals could pose the biggest peacetime threat to the UK's food security. According to the group, the import of cheaper foods that are produced to lower safety and welfare standards could place UK farmers at a disadvantage. "To compete ...

After Brexit: What happens next for the UK's farmers? - BBC News

 
www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-38510423
  1.  
  2.  
5 Jan 2017 - Of all UK industriesfarming could lose or gain the most from Brexit. At worst Brexitcould devastate the farming sector; on average 60% of farm incomes come in the form of EU subsidies. The report by Informa Agribusiness Intelligence estimates that without subsidies 90% offarms would collapse and land ...

Farm profits may halve after Brexit, says report - BBC News

 
www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-41570648
  1.  
11 Oct 2017 - The CAP gives UK farmers £3.1bn a year which, on the face of it, will disappear afterBrexit, though the UK government has guaranteed to maintain "overall" farm subsidies or payments at the same level until 2022. AHDB, a statutory body funded by a levy on the agricultural industry, saidBrexit would ...

Brexit: farming and fishing - UK Parliament

 
https://www.parliament.uk/business/publications/research/eu.../farming-and-fishing/
  1.  
  2.  
How will exiting the EU affect the UK's involvement relating to farming and fishing? ... How will exiting the European Union affect the UK's farming and fishing industries? Read analysis from ... Blog post examining post-Brexit development of policy on agriculture and fisheries, and future trade agreements in these areas.

Future is bright for British dairy farmers post-Brexit, report states ...

 
https://www.farminguk.com/.../Future-is-bright-for-British-dairy-farmers-post-Br-_47...
  1.  
19 Oct 2017 - A new report aimed at identifying a strategy for the UK dairy industry post-Brexit has concluded the future is bright for British dairy farmers.
 
 

 

majorp
majorp
23 Jan 2018 19:49

If they said that supermarkets could only sell British produce post - Brexit, it might help. I am told (No proof mind you), that ASDA milk is the produce of France. If it is true and they would have to tow the line by only being able to sell British produce, would it create a milk shortage here, or is there a surplus that we know nothing about at the moment. They say if there is no murmor from the farming community, then everything is hunky dorry. I haven't heard a lot of shouting yet, so I take it that things are fine at the moment.

Diana Mond
Diana Mond
23 Jan 2018 22:19

All ASDA own brand milk is from UK farms. It make you wonder who makes up these lies, and why they do it. 

Lynne
Lynne
24 Jan 2018 09:25

I typed in Where Does Asda Get Its Milk From? and got this 

 

‚ÄčAll ASDA fresh milk now carrying Arla farmer-owned marque | Arla UK

 
https://www.arlafoods.co.uk › Overview › News & Press › Archive News
  1.  
30 Oct 2015 - We will continue to work with ASDA and other retailers to get the farmer-owned message on a wide range of dairy products. ” ASDA sources all of its milk from Arla across England, Scotland and WalesASDA and Arla have had a ten year relationship which has made a substantial difference toits farmer ...

 

1 Agree
Lynne
Lynne
24 Jan 2018 09:34

and this makes for an interesting read

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39030755 

 

Here is an extract:

"We import more than we export of all types of food. The UK imported a whopping £38.5bn worth of food, feed and drink in 2015, the most recent official statistics available.

The number dwarfs the £18bn worth of food we exported that year. In fact, just half of the food we eat in the UK originates here, with most of the rest imported from Europe.

A recent vegetable shortage, driven by bad weather in southern Europe, highlighted this dependence, and led to a flurry of pictures on social media of empty supermarket shelves.

On top of this, the pound's 14% fall against the euro since the Brexit vote means imports cost more, and there is huge uncertainty over what effect leaving the EU will have on the cost and availability of food from Europe." 

Lynne
Lynne
25 Jan 2018 15:55

So..........if food imports from EU countries end up costing more (import tariffs) and exports to the EU of food produce by UK farmers end up costing more (export tariffs) then 1) where will we get our food from? and 2) how will all this affect the UK farming industry?

 

Some answers to (1)

Elsewhere in the world. I have read that because elsewhere in the world doesn't necessarily have such high animal welfare standards as that found within the EU (and presently the UK), food produced elsewhere in the world doesn't cost as much. This could result in lower imported food prices in our shops. 

 

So an answer to (2) might be that:

Lots of cheaper imported food (of not necessarily such a high production standard - remember cholorine washed chicken from the USA? and the horsemeat in burgers scandal a bit back?) would undercut the prices charged by UK farmers for their UK home grown produce. Our UK produce costs more because animal welfare standards cost money and this cost is passed on to us, the consumer.

 

So..........if our UK Farmers were to face a double whammy of a) being undercut by cheaper imports and at the same time b)see a drop in demand from the EU countries for their produce because of the extra tariiff costs then............what I don't c) is much of a future for the UK farming industry.   

 

Anyone any thoughts on that?   

  

 

 

 

Lynne
Lynne
26 Jan 2018 09:51

Oh and then of course there is the matter of farming subsidies.

What happens to the UK farming industry if, on top of what I have outlined above, subsidies go or are considerably reduced. 

leatash
leatash
26 Jan 2018 19:55

We should follow New Zealand they cut subsidies overnight and they now have a thriving farming industry, and yes Lynne the snow was amazing.

Lynne
Lynne
26 Jan 2018 20:12

They may now have a thriving farming industry but that wasn't achived without a lot of bankruptcies along the way.

But are we comparing like (NZ) with like (UK)?

That happened in NZ back in 1984 I believe.  We are talking United Kingdom in 2018.

The UK has a population 14 X greater than NZ.

 

More information to be found here ahdb.org.uk/brexit/documents/What_can_the_UK_learn_from_New_Zealand_subsidy_reforms.pdf

(the table on the front page is particularly illuminating).      

majorp
majorp
26 Jan 2018 21:35

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/3187928/Milk-imports-surge-as-British-production-drops-to-30-year-low.html

leatash
leatash
27 Jan 2018 07:45

The problem is food is to cheap but thats what the customer demands so the supermarkets demand more for less from the grower. So vast tracks of land are put to more profitable use you just have to look at estates here in Dawlish that produce little or no food but grow pheasants for shoots and crops for cover  and then collect huge amounts in subsidy.

Lynne
Lynne
27 Jan 2018 08:05

I would agree totally that the way farmers (especially 'farmers') are given subsidies (via CAP) has a lot that I do not agree with. Am I correct in believing that via CAP, farmers and 'farmers' are given subsidies based on the amount of land they have and not on what they produce from it?   Thus very rich landowners get a big top up even if the land they own is not in agricultural use?

 

So if farming subsidies are to be revised post Brexit the questions to be asked might be along these lines.

1. Should farming in the UK be subsidised at all? If not, how would that impact on the UK farming industry and the UK food supply?

2.Should farming in the UK still be subsidised but based on food production and not on the amount of land owned? And how would that impact on the UK farming industry and the UK food supply?  Might it lead to over production? A lowering of standards in order to produce more?

 

@majorp - I've just looked up that link that you posted. Is it my eyes or yours? I ask as my eyes tell me it is a 2008 story. 

           

 

     

leatash
leatash
27 Jan 2018 09:48

Lynne  You are correct and that's the problem we have.  Hill farmers producing good quality produce and hardly making a living and large land owners growing nothing but pheasants for their rich mates to shoot and coining it in.  Something has to change.  In my mind, if you own good farming land it's immoral not to be producing food, so should we not be penalising land owners who don't actively produce food?  Just a thought...

Lynne
Lynne
27 Jan 2018 10:40

So what I await to see is how this Conservative government, that no doubt gets lots of support in all sorts of ways from rich landowners/the land owning aristocracy, how it will take away the subsidies (tax payers' money) from these rich and powerful people.

How will the Tories square that particular circle?

 

And as for penalising them for not growing food. Well!!!!!!!!!!!!          

Lynne
Lynne
27 Jan 2018 11:29

Search Results

Farming subsidies in the UK | Economics Help

 
https://www.economicshelp.org › Economics help blog › agriculture
  1.  
27 Jul 2016 - One potential benefit of leaving the EU is the opportunity to radically change how we spend agricultural subsidies. ... Farming subsidies in the UK ... Also, if the EU had shifted the budget ofCAP into something more productive like regional policy, the EU would have been able to make a much bigger ...

CAP provides another bumper payout for landowners | John Vidal ...

 
https://www.theguardian.com/.../2010/.../common-agricultural-policy-cap-rotten-syste...
  1.  
  2.  
17 Jun 2010 - What's more, the level of payments is cast in stone and cannot be revised for at least three more years, thanks to an agreement between France and Germany, who have more subsidy billionaires than any other country. Even if Britain goes belly-up, their cash is safe. And because Britishfarmers are paid in ...

EU farming subsidies: One in five biggest recipients are billionaires ...

 
www.independent.co.uk › News › UK › Home News
  1.  
30 Jun 2017 - One in five of the biggest recipients of European farming subsidies in Britain are billionaires and millionaires on the Sunday Times Rich List, research suggests. Rankings by Greenpeace of the 100 companies and landowners receiving the biggest basic payments under the Common Agricultural Policy ...

Britain's farmers get £3bn a year from the inefficient CAP ... - LSE Blogs

 
blogs.lse.ac.uk/.../britains-farmers-get-3bn-a-year-from-the-inefficient-cap-that-has-to...
  1.  
26 May 2017 - And free trade deals of the kind the UK plans to pursue outside the Single Market will hurt farmers even more than the loss of subsidies. Dieter Helm says Brexit is a chance to stop subsidising large landowners and spend more on environmental protection. A majority of Britain'sfarmers voted for Brexit in the ...

Revealed: how we pay our richest landowners millions in subsidies

 
https://www.newstatesman.com/.../revealed-how-we-pay-our-richest-landowners-milli...
  1.  
19 Sep 2012 - Prince Charles, Serco and the Duke of Westminster - an NS investigation reveals whobenefits from the EU's Common Agricultural Policy. ... The average British household contributes £245 a year to the CAPmost of which, a New Statesman investigation has found, is handed to the wealthiest landowners.

EU subsidies: Millions given to UK billionaires while farmers struggle ...

 
https://www.express.co.uk › News › UK
  1.  
30 Jun 2017 - It's simply indefensible that taxpayers' money is being used to bankroll huge subsidies going to billionaires. Doug Parr, Greenpeace. Farmers have long decried the CAP system, whichbenefits landowners and not the 23,000 tenant farmers - or 18 per cent - who farm 32 per cent of theUK's produce.

Who benefits from farm subsidies: farmers or landowners? | CAP Reform

 
capreform.eu/who-benefits-from-farm-subsidies-landlords-or-landowners/
  1.  
  2.  
11 Oct 2007 - One of the most contentious issues surrounding farm subsidies is how much of what is paid out actually finds its way into the pocket of the farmer, and how much leaks out into rents paid to landlords, prices charged by the companies selling seed, feed, machines, chemical fertilizers, pesticides and other ...

Common Agricultural Policy: Rich List receive millions in ... - Energydesk

 
https://energydesk.greenpeace.org/.../common-agricultural-policy-millions-eu-subsidi...
  1.  
No information is available for this page.

Common Agricultural Policy: Rich List receive millions in EU subsidies ...

 
https://unearthed.greenpeace.org/.../common-agricultural-policy-millions-eu-subsidies...
  1.  
29 Sep 2016 - A total of £3.2bn was paid in common agricultural policy (CAP) subsidies in the UK last year, according to latest published data from the Department for ... Campaigners have long argued this system disproportionately benefits large landowners, and has not delivered enough public benefit for the amount of ...

Farm subsidies 'must be earned' - Michael Gove - BBC News

 
www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-40673559
  1.  
21 Jul 2017 - Critics say under the CAP wealthy UK landowners are given subsidies of up to £3m a year. The issue was highlighted last year when BBC News revealed that taxpayers are paying morethan £400,000 a year to subsidise a farm where a billionaire Saudi prince breeds racehorses. The Newmarket farm of ...

 

burneside
burneside
27 Jan 2018 13:12

@Lynne

"So what I await to see is how this Conservative government, that no doubt gets lots of support in all sorts of ways from rich landowners/the land owning aristocracy, how it will take away the subsidies (tax payers' money) from these rich and powerful people."

 

And your evidence for this claim is?

Lynne
Lynne
27 Jan 2018 16:16

You're not seriously suggesting that the rich landowners and land owning aristocracy aren't Tory supporters.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-uk-brexit-farming-subsidies-eu-duke-westminster-a7545601.html

 

(and no doubt you will dismiss the info in the link about simply and only because it comes from the Independent.) 

 

Lynne
Lynne
27 Jan 2018 16:29

and my evidence is ..........my eyes.

 

I have many a time, over the years, and across the country, seen large 'Vote Tory' posters adorning fields during election times.  

majorp
majorp
27 Jan 2018 16:43

No it is not your eyes Lynne. It was an example to show that we do import milk.

Years on and things have got worse, regarding the loss of dairy farms in the uk, so we import more milk, not a lot but it is more, and I don't think we import milk just to poor down the drain. So I am wondering where does it end up?

We all know how lables can be deceiving. packed in the uk but not sure where it is produced.

burneside
burneside
27 Jan 2018 17:02

So real evidence then, just what you perceive.  

Lynne
Lynne
27 Jan 2018 17:08

What I perceive is reality enough for me.

If you haven't seen/don't see those posters then all I can suggest is that you take yourself off to your nearest optician.

burneside
burneside
27 Jan 2018 17:16

What you believe to be true might be enough evidence for you, it isn't for me, you'll have to do better than that.

Lynne
Lynne
27 Jan 2018 17:21

So if that isn't okay for you, do you know what?  

I am not in the least bit bothered. 

 

(Must go now have The Mail to read. You know the one I feel sure. It's that Tory supporting newspaper whose editor I understand owns quite a few acres up in Scotland..........)  

 

 

 

Lynne
Lynne
22 Feb 2018 18:01
  • The EU is the UK’s most significant trading partner. Although the Government’s intention is to agree a comprehensive free trade agreement and customs agreement with the EU, there is no guarantee that this will occur. In the event that the UK leaves the EU without a free trade agreement, UK-EU trade will proceed under World Trade Organisation (WTO) rules. Reverting to WTO tariffs will have a significant impact upon agriculture as tariffs are higher for agricultural products than for other goods and services.

From:  https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201719/cmselect/cmenvfru/348/34803.htm

Lynne
Lynne
25 Feb 2018 06:28

"As for Brexit, I can’t understand why 58 per cent of farmers were in favour, because it will bring even more uncertainty. At least the EU provided them with 55 per cent of their income in subsidies –the Government says that subsidies are protected until 2020 – but what happens then? Farmers will be competing with the NHS and education for funding.

As for trade, farmers could be competing with imported food from overseas which is reared in far less stringent conditions and which could undercut home-grown produce. Farmers send 73 per cent of their exports into the EU – what will happen if they face import tariffs of up to 30 per cent? And where will they get the seasonal labour to pick and pack crops like fruit and vegetables?

Farming and food processing are responsible for 13 per cent of our GDP – more than car manufacturing."

From:  http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/nfu-president-new-woman-first-minette-batters-countryside-hunting-farming-agriculture-pheasant-a8225006.html

majorp
majorp
25 Feb 2018 07:59

Has anyone bothered to ask those farmers on the ground, how brexit will affect their operations? Will farming be left to the big super markets. Why are there still many leaving farming now and not waiting to see what happens when we officially leave. questions, questions, questions and no one it appears has the answer to any of it.

Leaving farming for a mo, there is talk about imposing a tarriff on imported cars when we leave. As Exeter is the biggest (Marsh Barton) in Europe where you can buy any make of car of your choice. what would happen if many of those car sales pulled the plug?

Lynne
Lynne
25 Feb 2018 08:27

@Majop  - why not start a new thread on the subject of how Brexit (whatever form it ends up taking) might impact on the UK car manufacturing/sales and allied industries and those employed in them.

 

We may not have a lot of car manufacturing in the south west but I for one know people who live in Dawlish who work in car sales at Marsh Barton.        

majorp
majorp
27 Feb 2018 12:44

Just read in the i news paper, that the Americans are trying to get our food standards lowered, so that it will make it easier for the Americans to export a lot of their dairy products to us.

Surely it would be better for all, (including the animal welfare) for the Americans to raise their standards.

majorp
majorp
27 Feb 2018 14:10

Reading the article further, the American lobyist's are claiming that the higher standards that we have in place----------------------------------------------------------Phew! is a form of tarriff.

So tarriff's come in all sorts of way's. That has got to be a new one.

Comment Please sign in or sign up to post