Dawlish News
CRITICS have raised concerns about the £100,000 Teignbridge Council is paying towards hosting Radio 1’s Big Weekend at Powderham.
The free two-day concert will feature Coldplay, Ellie Goulding and Craig David and is expected to attract 50,000 people on both days.
But the revelation that the district council has forked out so much money has raised some eyebrows.
The mayor of Dawlish, Cllr Howard Almond, pointed out that the hugely popular Dawlish air show attracted between 80,000 and 100,000 people but received no funding from the local authority.
He said: ‘This is a lot of money invested by Teignbridge Council and Exeter City Council.
‘Dawlish air show also attracts up to 100,000 people and it doesn’t get any money whatsoever.
‘In fact, Teignbridge Council charges the air show for use of the public toilets.
‘The impact the air show has is just as important as this free event at Powderham.’
Not a lot they will drive in to Powderham then drive home they will arrive before it starts bringing there food drink seats etc etc then stay all day and drive home, when did a concert at Powderham benifit Dawlish never.
How can we sit back and allow TDC, some of whom are Dawlish Councillors, allow such a vast amount of OUR money to be spent on such a venture when the vast majority of the people benefitting will come from other parts of the country and, probably, not spend a penny in the County? This is a disgraceful waste of taxpayers money.
To hopefully satisfy some of your concerns, this link takes you to a Freedom Of Information response by Derry Council re their staging of One Big Weekend in 2013. It's also worth noting that there's uproar next door because Torbay Council didn't bid for the right to host it. It's also worth noting that ticket applicants with a local postcode get first dibs.
Of course, there's no guarantees that the same net benefit will be achieved this year.
No, there isn't any guarantee re the net benefit. it is an outrageous waste of tax payers money.
If you talk to shop owners in Dawlish you will find that there biggest concern is the loss of the Air Show that had real financial benifits for them, for some it was the one day that kept them afloat and allowed them to trade for a further year. We need events in Dawlish not at Powderham, it may be folk will be a little better of this season with lower fuel prices but will they decide to holliday in Devon or follow the sun to Spain. Egypt etc etc.
TOTALLY OUT OF ORDER!!!
Obviously the councillors are complete idiots, £100,000 on this complete load of cr@p, when rural bus services are being cut, (just one example). This is so outrageous that all of us should stop paying council tax. It's hard understand how this has happened, I just don't get it at all.
We should find out which councillors voted for this and publish the list on here so that we know who not to vote for come election time.
Very good idea Paul re naming and shaming the councillors who have so shamefully spent our hard earned money. It really does beggar belief!
But don't you think all the restaurants and hotels in Dawlish will benefit from this event? Oh wait ...
We are paying twice over as the BBC already receives our money through payment of the licence fee. Why was there so much secrecy over the information being made public anyway? Don't the public have a right to know how their money is spent? Like others on this forum, I don't see how Dawlish (or Teignmouth, come to that) will benefit in any way; visitors are more likely to spend their money in Exeter as the majority will have come from that direction.
Does anyone know how the £100,000 is to be divvied up?
Artist fees?
BBC?
Powderham Estate?
Other?
I'm just curious
I used to have a part to play in traffic management at Powderham music events the public attending these events drive to Powderham park in the grounds and then leave on mass when the event finishes and bring everything with them. The only people who benifit from these events are those at Powderham, why would anyone once parked at Powderham leave to buy ice cream, a coffe,pastie etc in Dawlish when everything is available at Powderham that money could have been spent promoting events in Dawlish bringing real benifit to the town. The problem is that the money being spent is MONOPOLY MONEY given by the TAX PAYERS and those in charge treat it in that way they don't see it as real money.
Okay, so perhaps the shops in Dawlish (and other parts of Teignbridge) won't benefit financially whilst the Courteney's and their estate will, but perhaps other residents in Teignbridge might benefit financially in a different way?
For example - I wonder what the open market price would be for a ticket to this event if it wasn't free?
And if, as MV says, locals get first dibs for these tickets then surely that's of financial benefit to those locals who wish to go?
And didn't I read somewhere that as part of the event 'package' the BBC does workshops for young people leading up to the event?
So.....whilst the shops may not benefit financially others might - but just in a different way.
£100,000 of council tax money is squandered, and the payback is a few workshops run by the BBC? The potential cost of tickets on the open market is irrelevant, TDC should not be in the business of subsidising pop concerts that have little, or no benefit to the community.
No sorry I completely disagree Lynne. The Councils are constantly pleading tightened budgets so how does £100,000 fit in with this and why are we financially supporting Powderham and the BBC?! I feel the way it's been funded has been devious and underhanded by both the BBC and the councils. Crowd funding for the Hedley Centre anyone? Need I say more.
I just wonder if...........assuming that Powderham is being paid for the use of the estate..............and given that the Courtney's can't be short of a bob or two........well.......I just wonder if ......... in this instance the Courtney's would waive any fees they would normally charge for such an event being staged on their land.
Because although I am open to persuasion about the concert being held at Powderham it does stick in my craw that such an aristocratic and monied private enterprise is on the receiving end of public money.
Don't know how much of that £100,000 such an action might save but it would certainly be a nod by Powderham/the Courtney's in the direction of acknowledging tightened circumstances for many in the area and that we are indeed 'all in it together.' (ahem)
Noblesse oblige 'n all that.
If it is being labelled 'Radio 1's Big Weekend' aka BBC and the BBC are promoting it as 'Radio 1's Big Weekend goes to Exeter, Devon', Why are we having to put any money into it. It is being staged at a Privately owned venue. BBC want it then the BBC should pay for it.
Now if it was being staged at 'The Lawn' or/and 'The Den' I wouldn't be as unhappy, but £100,000 of hard earned money by the people of Teignbridge when we can't even get the curbs sprayed with insecticide or streets cleaned. Something stinks to high heaven,
I want to know where every penny of this money went. What justification(s) was there for those in charge to validate this obscene payment, in light of the degraded services the tax/rate payers of Teignbridge are having to put up with.
Does anyone know how much Exeter City Council have stumped up?
And as much as I would also like to know more about the decision making by TDC concerning all this, I doubt very much if anything will be forthcoming as I imagine all discussions about it had to take place in Part II of meetings which are confidential and not open to the public.
So, we will only ever know what we'll get told. I can't see us being able to view the minutes of any decision making meeting.
But I'd love to be proven wrong on that.
Anyone fancy raising it with their TDC councillor? Cllr Clemens is a member of the TDC Exec. Try him.
Okay - I've found this minute from the TDC Council meeting held on 8th December 2015.
very interesting @Lynne, thanks for posting. i don't understand the secrecy at all and why we should give the bbc any money. if they can't afford £100,000 then perhaps they should cut the salaries of some of their 'top' presenters. i understand that for example chris evans 'earns' an estimated £1.6 million per annum. paying for this would be small fry. on the plus side, councillor hook has gone up in my estimation immensely!
Thanks for your post Lynne. I think there is still some digging to do regarding who is paying how much and why. It stinks and it is disgraceful. I hope we all remember this when we next go to the polls.
Unfortunately the polls for the local councils are some 3 and a bit years away and if a week is a long time in politics then .............
That said, perhaps people would like to ask our Dawlish TDC councillors more about all of this both via e-mail and via letters in the Gazette.
And yes, perhaps the top earners at the BBC and the artistes themselves could indeed make a donation/waive their fees towards the costs of such a concert.
And so should the Powderham hosts.
(but I don't think they will, do you?)
To answer my own question about how much Exeter City Council have stumped up - it looks like it was £100,000 as well because in those minutes that I've posted it talks of "a budget be allocated, matched by the partner authority".
Anyone know what the reaction is amongst the Exeter electorate about all this?
I've only found this (and scroll down to read the comments)
http://www.exeterexpressandecho.co.uk/Radio-1-s-Big-Weekend-2016/story-28728415-detail/story.html
So it could well be £200,000 of Tax payers money and again Devon County are cutting services it proves one thing they lie when they tell us there is no money for basic services.
@Lynne - appreciate the info on the minutes - i assume the 'third party' is the bbc? i think the only reason it was made confidential is that a lot of local people would have been disgraced by the action to ban public and press from this, if they had known! As in the minutes it was not part of a written contract, but word of mouth from the third party to keep it confidential.
I can understand this if it was information of a security/sensitive matter, but a music festival at Powderham! I feel an independant review should take place as to the whole issue.
What other large amounts of public money are being given away by the publicly elected officials, in confidential meetings?
I will certainly be keeping a copy of those who were involved in the voting for the next elections, even if it is nearly 4 years away.
I too think it is appalling, but as for who is lying remember it is the district and city councils stumping up £100k each not Devon County council. So where DCC may not be able to afford school crossing patrols anymore maybe there is some merit in thinking that district councils should be able to afford it when they can give away £100k like this.
Just a thought but will some company be laying on free cycles so the people attending can ride into Dawlish and justify the new path also paid for out of local taxes. They could then spend all their money in town and ride back to Powderham. Or maybe there should be no on site parking which might provide some income for GWR, Stagecoach and local taxi firms. On second thought wont all these extra vistors pose a threat to the Exe Estuary and Dawlish Warren nature reserves. Maybe we need some extra SANGS but of course TDC sold that provision back to a certain developer. Thats where the £100,000 came from then
Hi Purfect - I think there's been some confusion. There are two events. The Let's Rock Exeter is not the same as the Radio 1 big weekend although both are being held at Powderham. The Radio 1 Big Weekend is in May whilst the Let's Rock Exeter is in July.
Not that I'm making excuses for the council paying £100k towards this of course!
Spent 56 minutes in a queue trying to get tickets for my kids but failing. It's not a free event either £8.50 booking fee. What a crock.
I gather from my young person that the tickets for the Saturday sold out like mega quick. But she and others she knows did manage to get tickets for the Sunday (which as it happens is perfectly okay with her as it was tickets for the Sunday that she wanted).
Having booked a day's leave from work so that she could go online as soon as she could, and having succeeded in getting tickets for the Sunday, the exertion of it all has taken its toll and she has now gone back to bed and is sleeping it all off!
Bless.
If you are going somewhere else in the locale on those days beware that Teignbridge are making money on park and rides. Dawlish Leisure Centre is one of them charging £11 for people to park. Check before you travel somewhere that you will be able to park or hibernate ...
@Lynne - went online as soon as it opened and was only trying for sunday. 56 minutes and then zilch. i understand the tickets are already being sold on ebay. 'luckily' people outside of teignbridge found it easier to get tickets and managed to get spare ones for my kids.
As I said, what a crock. No money for a new traffic light system for Elm Grove Road but plenty to subsidise the BBC and the Courtneys.
TICKETS for BBC Radio 1’s Big Weekend at Powderham Castle have already ended up on sites including eBay, with users asking more than £300 for the ticket.
I think Dawlish town council may wish to change the intro to the website below, even though it has not been adopted by them - why have it then! Seems to sum them up. May be it's another April Fool, duh!
http://www.localcouncils.org/dawlish/
'Serving the people of Dawlish'. Yes, but with what? A bad taste!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@Purrrrrrrrfect. That website has nothing to do with Dawlish Town Council. I think you owe them an apology.
@flo. my better half got lucky and got our two tickets inside 30 minutes this morning. £17 for two people to attend such an amazing gig is an absolute bargain. can't wait! thank you tdc and thank you bbc.
Am I missing something here? Wasn't this a free concert with locals getting first dibs at the tickets? If it is not free then what has our tax payers money paid for? It gets stinkier and stinkier!! Do we need to ask even more questions?
Ticketmaster do indeed charge a booking fee. Standard practice sadly. And locals did get priority over those outside of the local postcode areas.
I apologise for not thanking TDC council tax payers for their £1.66 contribution per council tax bill towards this whole event. Cheers!
@Morty Vicker - not sure why you've tagged me or what your point is. we got tickets but not via the priority tickets.
@flo erm you were tagged because i was responding to your post. the point being that as locals we were easily able to obtain tickets. i'm sure your kids will have an amazing time.
I wonder if figures will be released detailing the number of TDC residents who obtained tickets versus people from outside the area? Council tax payers could then decide for themselves if this was money well spent, or not.
A complete waste of £1.66 of every persons money! It could have been put to much better use for the whole community.
Ticketing figures were released in advance - 50,000 over two days - 30,000 for Teignbridge and Exeter residents, 17,500 for surrounding postcodes and 2500 for the rest of the UK. That's a higher proportion for local residents than previous years.
There is massive competition to stage this event so it looks like quite an achievement to have it here but while the PR might be great I'm intrigued by the economics of it.
Last year it was held in Norwich with the same number of tickets available and headline acts being arguably stronger, including Taylor Swift, Muse, Foo Fighters and Florence and the Machine. The booking fee then was £3.50 per ticket as opposed to this year's £8.50. (In Glasgow in 2014 it was £2.50 per ticket). That means £250,000 additional income has been generated this year on last.
A search of the Norwich council website funding doesn't mention any contribution from them so I spoke to one of their councillors who also didn't think the council had made any contribution to hosting it (other than it being held in a local park).
So with £250,000 additional income on processing fees alone why was money from Teignbridge and Exeter even necessary? And with the £200,000 from them, what are the organisers doing with the extra £450,000 in their budget this year?
£1.66 per bill not per person. Each council tax bill has subsidised each ticket to the tune of a minute fraction of 1p.
The financial benefits to be gained by the area are already well documented and well-founded based upon the experience of previous years events.
No one can seriously deny these events bring money into the area! Plenty of food and drink concessions, security, van hire, casual workers, scaffolding, rigging, accomodation, to name but a few will all be sourced locally. It's nonsense to say the vast majority of people benefiting will come from other parts of the country.
That said, I'm yet to be persuaded that there was a need for TDC to put money into it particularly when 15k could have secured an Airshow that reputedly brings 80-100,000 visitors here. (Shame local retailers were not more supportive of the Airshow too - it was probably their best trading day of the year and a couple of hundered quid each in sponsorship would have helped no end.)
@Mcjrpc - i agree with you that some of the vendors who supply to visitors at the powderham event may have been sourced locally, maybe not. does that justifiy teignbridge giving £100k to a major corperation that is funded to excess by the public already?
As has already been commented on - Air Show £15k (not supported by the T.D.C goons) 80-100k visitors and we still have to pay Teignbridge for the use of the w.c's
As to Margaret's comment that Morty Vickers 'does spout utter rubbish' I have to agree with whole heartedly as a generalised statement of fact rather than specifically to MV's specific statement on cost's.
As to MV (and every other name 'IT' has gone by before being deleted' generally 'IT' seems to relish in destroying interesting/informative post's on this site, what a sad person!
@MV - (04th April 20:11 2016) I think even someone of your slithering nature can see'NOT ADOPTED BY' is more than likely the same as not theirs. It does have their name on it so I can only presume that they are not that bothered. slither, slither.....You are a fine one to talk about apologising to others!
@Purrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrfect
I've merely been providing facts and my point of view. That's hardly 'destroying interesting/informative posts'. But thank you anyway for your positive contribution, as always.
@BEE9. your post makes no sense in relation to the original post about that website. and anyway, my post that you're commenting on was in reply to purrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrfect. did you forget which login to use? EDIT: Jeez, I'm now sounding like one the conspiracy theory nutjobs that this site seems to attract! And to whom do you suggest I should be apologising to and for what?
You know that's untrue. You're only saying this because of who you think i am. how can facts such as £100,000 being the equivalent of £1.66 per annual TDC council tax bill be "utter rubbish"? divide that £1.66 by 50,000 will give you the subsidy per ticket that us TDC council tax bill payers are contributing per ticket. fact, not "utter rubbish".
The benefits that have already been gained by Teignbridge businesses and individuals have already been documented and are in the public domain for all to see. Then there are the benefits yet to be gained. All backed up by the facts from previous years' experiences up and down the kingdom.
Your bickering is unseemly. You might disagree with the £100,000 investment by TDC, and that is absolutely your right to do so. But it's also my right to agree with it, without being sniped at and called childish names by people who should know better at their ages.
Have a a good day.
@Morty Vicker - would you mind posting some of the links to the documentation that shows which local businesses and individuals that have already gained from this handout by t.d.c, thankyou.
I agree with BEE9, let's see the evidence that local businesses have already gained form the £100,000 spend. And, as others have said before me, most people will drive to Powderham and home again without stepping across the threshold of any of our towns, thus benefitting no one but the Powderham estate. There were so many other, much more deserving things, that the money could have been spent on including the Dawlish Airshow.
Here's one for a start - go on booking.com and see what accommodation is available. It's been booked up overnight. Do you think you'll be able to call a local restaurant the day before and get a table? Do you think off licences and food shops won't be increasing their orders? Do you think you'll get a taxi that day? Do you think it's outrageous of TDC to employ stewards and exploit car parks to bring in extra money?
By your own reasoning TDC should not even support the Airshow because it may not benefit a resident or business in Chudleigh I may share the same opinion as you, but for entirely different reasons.
As people attending the concerts are strictly prohibited from taking their own food and drink into the site, the local off licences and food shops would be foolish to overstock. From the BBC website:
No food or drink can be taken into the site - with the exception of personal supplies of water in a plastic container with an unbroken seal (up to 500 ml per person); or special medical supplies (please bring a doctor's note if these are not obviously medicinal).
No doubt the food and drink available to concert goers inside the grounds of Powderham will be on sale at a vastly inflated rate.
Indeed, so they fill up beforehand because, as you say, prices will be vastly inflated inside. Never been to a festival event ?
You think everyone will just head straight to Powderham? There will be plenty of people just going for the headline acts who will get an early train to beat the traffic and make a day of it nearby. Sure they can walk up and down and admire the swans without getting their cash out but who knows, they might buy a bag of chips and a four pack of lager from the Co-op and sit on the sea wall, or go to the Marine Tavern until their train to Starcross is due, or even buy a muffin at Geronimo's. It's plain daft to say local business won't see increased trade.
It doesn't have to be an all-or-nothing debate, you can still recognise that the local area will benefit without agreeing with the TDC grant.
I have never been to a festival event where I was searched on entry with food and drink being confiscated. I wouldn't attend such an event on principle.
All the traders that are supplying food and drink inside Powderham have had to pay quite a lot for the privilige, I know of one who hashad to pay £5000 to be there
Yes, same way people pay for their pitches at car boot sales. It won't be Powderham who receives the money it will be the event organisers (in this case the BBC). The bulk will go towards paying the artists, they don't perform for free. This article gives an idea on how festivals work: http://www.theguardian.com/music/2015/jul/09/cost-of-staging-music-festival?CMP=share_btn_tw
Interestingly I had heard that there were plenty of food and drink concessions from outside the immediate vicinity wanting to pay for pitches at the Dawlish Airshow but the organisers felt that it would upset the local retailers to do that. Lose-lose.
So...........just one article on the benefits gained! The proof of the pudding etc. let's see how busy Dawlish is that weekend and let's ask the traders how well they have profited from our £100,000 being given to the BBC to stage this event. And then let's all report back here!
@ Margaret
Dawlish will be busy as it is a Bank Holiday weekend so unless traders in town ask why people are here, we will never know the real figure as to how much Dawlish benefitted from the concert.
My wording should have been better in order to prevent misunderstanding. I meant "There's just one" as in "Here's just one of many", not as in "There's only one".
A google search will provide you with plenty of results. Or a phone call like I've just made to Cofton and to Ladysmile, to whom I made a general enquiry about availability. To say that they're rather pleased with this event is an understatement.
Maybe they are busy just because it's the bank holiday weekend, did they ask everybody why they were coming to stay?
Jeez, the naysayers are going to argue this to the death! There's no intelligent debate where opinions are so entrenched.
It may well be a waste of council tax money but you don't have to insist the event itself has absolutely zero impact on the local economy just to support your stance.
Powderham hosts quite a few large events, is the town deluged with visitors from these? And I'm not the one phoning around the local camp sites trying to prove a point.
Quite so, you can't prove a negative. I don't know how many 25,000 capacity day events have been held at Powderham, could you remind me?
I was asked to provide evidence and I have. It's far more effective than being a keyboard warrior to ask the right people the right questions. Of course they didn't ask every single customer - their delight is probably because the additional customers volunteered the information. That's me done on this subject, until after the event - some people will never be happy so there's no point flogging this dead horse any more. Have a good afternoon.
@Mcjprc
Are you seriously suggesting that Powderham does not host large concerts? Let's Rock Exeter, Olly Murs... But whether it be 5,000 or 25,000, I don't believe the vast majority of concert-goers spend any money outside the venue.
OMG can we all move on, its happening and a lot of people in Teignbridge and Exeter are able to go to this whereas it would be difficult in any other part of the Country. I would be at the head of the queue if it was the Radio 2 Roadshow providing Chris Evans was not involved
Let's get back to basics. It is a massive amount of money to spend on one event given the shortfall of money in this time of austerity! Budgets cut left right and centre but it is OK to spend tax payers money on an event that is questionable! It really is disgraceful by any standards.
My opinion, for what it's worth, yes it is a lot of money BUT every single person I've spoken to about it since the tickets went on sale has been excited and positive about it. I was at the leisure centre the morning the tickets were available and it was the hot topic of discussion from others in the changing rooms. Personally I'm not going, done my share of open air concerts, prefer indoor ones these days, but those who are going are pleased its on locally, excited by the acts that will be there and have something positive and uplifting to look forward to.
Maybe in times when money is a bit short and cuts have had to be made it doesn't hurt every now and then to have a splurge on something that makes people happy. A bit like treating yourself and/or your family when money has been tight at home. If we decided to only spend money on "essential" all the flipping time then a) there would be non stop disagreements on what is classified as essential (frankly on here some people would argue night was day to score a point over their latest enemy) and b) the world would be a miserable grey place with no funding for arts, entertainment and those things in life that lift the spirit and make you feel good. Just think how good the UK felt when the olympics was on. Huge amounts of money spent but so much goodwill and fun to be had.
So so although my taxes are going towards it and I will gain no direct benefit from it, it won't bring me in any extra business, I won't be attending and no one in my family managed to get tickets, I STILL think it's not the worst thing in the world to worry about or get het up about. It reminds me of that hashtag on Twitter #firstworldproblems. We live in an amazing part of the world, we face few of the problems many of the worlds citizens face on a daily basis, we have amazing people, groups and organisations in our community and despite the vitriol displayed on here at times, we really ARE a community and we all play a part in it. Maybe we should just count our blessings that THIS is the kind of "problem" we can spend time worrying about rather than the god awful issues so many millions around the world have to deal with every day.
Frankly there will will always be something that someone would rather spend ANY council money on. As Roberta said, can we all move on, it's happening. Maybe we all need a bit of perspective and to take a deep breath and do just that, move on. Bound to be another #firstworldproblem to get your teeth into just around the corner.
I agree with much of what you say DJ but perhaps it is because I am still working at the sharp end and see daily the impact of the cuts on society that I feel so passionate about this dreadful waste of taxpayers money. Cuts that impact on the elderly, children, young people, parents and even the dead, to mention just a few. But, I suppose, compared to £9.2 million spent on a glossy brochure to convince us all to stay in Europe then £100,000 does rather pale. And, by the way, if your barbed comment is aimed at me then you could not be more wrong, I read this site regularly as I do find it interesting most of the time but I only ever comment when I am passionate about something and that is regardless of who is making the comments.
Margaretswift55, there was no barbed comment in what I wrote and certainly none aimed at anyone in particular. It was a general comment about the subject and posts on this site from all sides. I am surprised you took it as being aimed at your personally, if I had wanted or aimed to do that then I would have been open and said so. I didn't say so, because that was not the intention. I also, to be clear, have no problem with anyone being passionate about things. As I stated at the start of my previous post, it was my opinion on the subject (as a whole), that is all. Nothing more and nothing less.
@Margaret - reply to your post 07 April 2016 10:43 - As the traders in Dawlish have records of their takings from last years accounts. It should be a simple matter to see how much they earn't last years to this year for the same period.
Obviously there are a lot of factors involved as to what may have been on during the previous period, etc.
Although, if no major events outside of Dawlish were taking place it should be a fairly good indicator as to whether or not the Dawlish traders will see an increase in takings during the festival weekend.
As I have said before. TDC have advised that essential services are not as they should be for the district. Instead of putting the £100k back into those services they decide to put it into a music festival that is organised/profitted by a major corperation. That is funded substaintially by the taxpayers with threat of prosecution if you do not pay the licence fee.
Something is seriously wrong when TDC give some much money to such an organisation. When essentail services throughout the district are without the required funds....yes, I have repeated myself because it just sticks in my throat when I pay £2k a year for rates and services are cut.
Please give it a rest!! its a done deal and no amount of whingeing, analysing and objecting is going to change it. Bury this thread and move on.
Thanks BEE9, some good indicators of what would provide reliable evidence and, as I am not working in June, I will have the time to get round the traders for their feedback. The amount of money spent on this event sticks in my throat too!
@roberta -your post 08 april 2016 15:36 - it's not your place to decide, for others, when to stop discussing, debating, communicating about any thread on this site. if people wish to continue airing their thoughts, that is their right. why should we 'bury this thread' a significant amount of local money has been wasted at a time when the council is shouting poverty and running down essential services.
So, what happens next time hundreds of thousands of pounds even millions (Newton abbot shopping centre) is spent by the local authorities whilst services are further cut.
No, if people want to continue with this thread, so be it. You don't have to participate. It's your choice to view the thread and if you don't like what you see, don't press the button. I agree with burnside's comment as you may have gathered.